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Faster Than Normal - The ADHD Podcast

Having ADD or ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Hear from people all around the globe, from every walk of life, in every profession, from Rock Stars to CEOs, from Teachers to Politicians, who have learned how to unlock the gifts of their ADD and ADHD diagnosis, and use it to their personal and professional advantage, to build businesses, become millionaires, or simply better their lives.
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Now displaying: January, 2022
Jan 26, 2022

Emma Broyles is from Anchorage, Alaska, and currently resides in Phoenix, Arizona to continue her studies in biomedical sciences and vocal performance at Barrett, The Honors College at Arizona State University. Having dermatillomania and acne herself along with a strong passion for helping others, she chose to study biomedical sciences as a preliminary degree to medical school with the goal of becoming a dermatologist. Not only is Emma the 100th Anniversary Miss America, she represents the Korean American community as the first Korean-American to earn the job of Miss America. Emma has earned over $110,000 in scholarships as a local candidate, Miss Alaska's Outstanding Teen, Miss Alaska, and Miss America to further her educational goals. In addition to her social impact initiative, Building Community through Special Olympics, Emma also speaks of having ADHD, which she calls her "super power." Today we ask how her neurodiversity has helped her career, why it is that girls and women are not as often diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and how she stays on time and on track! We are lucky and grateful to visit with this impressive young woman. Enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Miss America Emma Broyles discuss:  

2:10 - Intro and welcome Emma Broyles!!

2:58 - You were public about being ADHD/ADD when you were competing! That’s amazing! What’s your backstory, when were you diagnosed, tell us everything?! 

3:27 - On how women typically go undiagnosed and how her story is still not unusual

7:45 - Ref interview: The One with the ADHD PhD, Featuring Rachel Cotton 

8:38 - Why do you think it’s a less often diagnosis in women or girls? 

10:21 - On challenging the stereotype of “No way, you’re not ADD or ADHD!?”

10:48 - Do you think that ADHD/ADD played a formidable role in your competition and successes and if so, how beneficial or negative?

14:10 - How has your experience been in AZ as opposed to NYC, or growing up in Alaska?

15:38 - How did your scheduling go growing up? How did you keep school and extra-curricular going?

17:40 - Tell us about what your favorite sort of tricks or hacks are that make your life work as well as it does with ADD?  Ref: Time Blindness Check out our interview w/ Rene Brooks 

19:32- How can people find more about you? @EmmaBroyles_ at INSTA and the Miss America is @MissAmerica on INSTA YouTube FB and Twitter or via the website and via email: Appearances@MissAmerica.org 

20:35 - Thank you Emma! Guys, as always, we are here for you and we love the responses and the notes that we get from you; so please continue to do that! Tell us who you want to hear on the podcast, anything at all; we’d love to know.  Leave us a review on any of the places you get your podcasts, and if you ever need our help I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! 

21:28 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

TRANSCRIPT: 

I want to thank you for listening and for subscribing to Faster Than Normal! I also want to tell you that if you’re listening to this one, you probably listened to other episodes as well. Because of you all, we are the number one ADHD podcast on the internet!! And if you like us, you can sponsor an episode! Head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ It is a lot cheaper than you think. You'll reach... about 25k to 30,000 people in an episode and get your name out there, get your brand out there, your company out there, or just say thanks for all the interviews! We’ve brought you over 230 interviews of CEOs, celebrities, musicians, all kinds of rock stars all around the world from Tony Robbins, Seth Godin, Keith Krach from DocuSign, Danny Meyer, we've had Rachel Cotton, we've had  the band Shinedown, right? Tons and tons of interviews, and we keep bringing in new ones every week so head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ make it yours, we'd love to have you, thanks so much for listening!  Now to this week's episode, we hope you enjoy it!

 Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. My name is Peter Shankman. I am thrilled that you're here. It is a grey gross, disgusting Monday morning here. Actually. No, now it's Monday afternoon here in New York city. Uh, it was snowing all night and then turned into rain around 4:00 AM. Just around the time. You're like, oh, they're gonna cancel. No, they're not now. It's just rainy and gross. So either. We have someone here who's going to brighten up our day and say, oh, and the flowers and sunshine, and very excited for that. Introducing Emma Broyles, Emma is miss America, 2022. And you know, you say, oh, it was America And that's usually like a euphemism for something, but no, she's really miss America. She was miss Alaska and now she's miss America. And, and she won. And that is the coolest thing ever. And I have a miss America on my podcast, which I think is awesome. The last miss America I met was I think in 2015 at a conference. I was the keynote speaker and she spoke right after me. And I remember meeting her right before she went on stage and she said, well, thanks. Now, now they're now they're hysterical and they think I'm going to be funny. I'm not funny. And that, that was not cool. And I'm like, I'm really sorry that you have to do that. 

So Emma welcome to Faster Than Normal. I'm gonna try not to be funny. 

Thank you so much for having me. 

It's great to have you here. So, uh, Emma, you are ADHD, which, and you were public about that. When you were on stage and when you were competing. So, I mean, that's amazing in itself. It's, it's amazing that we're at the point where we're talking about that and we're talking about it on a national stage and that's, you know, that's been the whole purpose of Faster Than Normal from the very beginning. And I as she had mentioned, she said she was familiar with my podcast before we talked. So that just makes me sooo happy. But, um, so tell us, tell us about your background. Tell us about your, your history. Um, growing up as a kid, when were you diagnosed the whole, the whole thing. 

Yeah. You know, so this was kind of something that I talked about on stage during my onstage question was the fact that women tend to go undiagnosed with ADD or ADHD. And that was the case for me. I, you know, I grew up kind of as somewhat of a quiet kid, right. I would sit in the back of a class and. Oh, I, I, everything that I would be, um, you know, I'd be pinching myself, trying to get myself to focus. Right. But no matter what, I would sit through a lecture, I would sit through a class and then by the end of it, I would realize I have no idea what this professor or teacher just said to me, everything just goes in one ear and out the other, and it was so frustrating because then I would go at home attempting to do the homework at night. Right. And my peers would finish it during lunch. They'd finish it during the class period. And I'd sit there having to reteach the entire unit to myself. And so it took me about three times the amount of time that it took for any other student to finish my homework to 

like in, in, in like primary school, high school, things like that? 

Yeah, exactly. And it was so frustrating and I didn't really realize why I honestly, I thought that maybe I was just slow. I thought maybe I was just not as smart as the kids around me. And so it was something that was a big insecurity for me. And so I kind of did my best to overcompensate. So I had these long, so every morning I would plan out my morning before school, I'd say, okay, 6:55. I wake up by seven o'clock I'm in the bathroom, brushing my teeth by 7:10, you know? So it was down to the minute. That's why nobody would have known that I had ADD, right. I was the president of national honor society. I graduated with honors. I then went into, um, uh, bear at the honors college at ASU and nobody would have ever guessed, right. Like I, I had this busy life and it seemed like I was doing great, but it was all before. Um, the time that I had to put in behind the scenes just to be at the same level as my peers. And then finally, when COVID hit, COVID hit when I was a sophomore in college. Um, and I just remember being in my dorm, trying to do online learning, and it was so hard for me and my, my grades were just tanking and that was the first for me. I had usually been pretty much a straight A student with a B here or there, but all of a sudden I was flunking all of my tests. And I remember talking to some of my friends who also have ADD and they were telling me about one of my best friends actually, she got diagnosed during our freshman year of college and she was telling me about her symptoms and about what her medication did for her. And I was listening, sitting there, listening to her. Oh, my gosh, like that sounds exactly like me. So I go online. I did some research about ADD, ADHD in women and how it typically goes undiagnosed. And I went ahead and I scheduled an appointment, um, with a doctor here in Arizona and I ended up getting diagnosed and we tried some different variations of dosage for medication and all of a sudden it was like the blinds had been taken off of my eyes and it was so funny cause everything just flipped around for me. And that, that next semester I got straight A's I think I got all close to a hundred percent in all of my classes for the first time ever taking, you know, 21 credits and working two jobs. And all of a sudden it was like what the heck, this whole time, I could have just been taking medication and sailing through life. So it was, it was great in a way, in the way, in the sense that it, um, it made. Feel really hopeful for the future, because I was really nervous about medical school. I was like, oh my gosh. You know, if I'm already putting in this much effort for my undergraduate degree, how am I going to last in medical school? But at the same time, it was really frustrating to think that I didn't realize, and that I didn't go and get diagnosed in high school or in middle school..Uh, I don't know, you know, I don't know what it was like for you, but, um, I'm sure a lot of people listening can kind of resonate with the story that it's so frustrating thinking about how much time you spent being frustrated with yourself and frustrated with your abilities feeling like you weren't good enough. Um, but yeah, that's kinda my story. 

I mean, you know, imagine doing that in the seventies, eighties, when ADHD wasn't a thing. 

Yeah, I can't imagine.

 It was just the sit down, you’re disrupting the class disease, um, it's funny. Your story has a lot of similarities to someone we had on the podcast very early on, um, a PhD now, a, a doctor and she got her PhD. Uh, during the time she was on a podcast called re uh, named Rachel Cotton [[The One with the ADHD PhD, Featuring Rachel Cotton]] and she got her PhD in neuroscience, uh, epidemiology. Basically she's the one, uh, who, uh, everyone on Facebook thinks they know more than about COVID. Um, but she's actually a, actually a doctor in this and she was saying very similar things to you, but, you know, she, she was, uh, uh, made the Dean's list at Notre Dame and, and, and went to Harvard for her PhD and all this. And yet she was mainlining like caffeine pills and, and, you know, sleeping like four hours a night and all the stuff, because she didn't, um, she also wasn't diagnosed. And as soon as she got diagnosed, everything. Right. So, so there's definitely, um, why do you think it is a lesser diagnosis in women? Do you think it's that it's that women or girls at that point when they're younger are not getting diagnosed because they're not, they're not able to articulate what's going on or is it just that it's not thought of as something that could affect women as well?

Yeah. You know, I think that I've read a lot of articles about this, and it's really interesting how hyperactivity and a lot of women who have ADD hyperactivity is just now part of the diagnosis. Right? And so when you're in a classroom, right, when a teacher would spot a little boy running laps around the class, she said, something's wrong with this boy? You know, he can't focus. He's tapping his pen, he's distracting his other classmates. Like this is an issue, not just for him, but for the other classmates. So he needs to go get diagnosed. He needs to see a doctor, but for girls, it's more of this kind of, and this was the same thing. Same thing for me is that it's kind of like the day dreamer kind of a thing where, you know, You're looking right at the teacher and it looks like you're, um, you're totally focused, you're totally zoned in, but there's a whole nother world going on in that brain. And I think that's typically why it goes undiagnosed is because nobody would know except for that person, and typically, especially cause we don't talk about ADD or ADHD that often. And so girls don't know what it is. They don't know that there's something wrong with them, they just think that, oh, maybe I'm just. Smart. I dunno. I dunno. Maybe, maybe I'm just really lazy, you know, and I think that's one of the main reasons why girls tend to go undiagnosed, but, um, yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult because everyone that I talked to after I got diagnosed, they would say no way. And it just frustrating, you know, to have people doubt you and doubt your diagnosis saying no way you don't have ADHD, you don't have ADHD. I don't believe it. You're always, you know, you're so smart. You always do really well. School, like, how could you have add? And it's like, come on guys. Really, really? 

I remember a girlfriend of mine once I said, I said, yeah, you know, she said: Oh well just focus more!” Oh, screw me, that's all it is!? Sorry! No, no medication, no nothing, you’re right, here we go. All right, I'll do it! Tell me about, so you've been performing and, and I guess, uh, acting and pageants and all that for obviously for years. Um, it's not something you just wake up one day and say, okay, I'm going to go compete miss American's afternoon. So obviously it's something you've been doing for years. Um, do you think that ADHD played a role in, or ADD played a role in that at all? And if so, how beneficial or negative or.. 

Yeah. So, you know, I really, the hyper activity or not the hyper activity, the, um, the ability of somebody who has add or ADHD to kind of hyper-focus on something is such an incredible, it's such an incredible tool, imo. Um, I, I honestly think that it's why I got so into music at such a young age is because it was something that I felt like I understood, whereas school, sometimes I felt like I didn't know what was going on, but in my music lessons, I had no problem focusing because it was something that I just absolutely loved and adored. Um, and so it was like every single one of my senses was just completely tuned in to what I was doing and what I was singing. Um, you know, paying attention to the breath support and the lyrics, and you know, everything. So I think that being able to hyper-focus on something is absolutely what I call a super power I think; in so many different ways. And now that I'm in college, especially now that I'm studying things that I actually am interested in. I especially liked my psychology courses, but, um, you know, I would sit there and read my psychology textbook for hours on end and just be completely indulged because it's just be completely indulged because when you find something that you're passionate about. Your brain, just zeros in on that thing. And, um, it's, it's just, it's crazy. I think it's a crazy superpower that people with ADHD have. And I think that, especially with music, um, singing in a lot of people don't have this ability to be singing in a choir, right. Because you have to tune out all the other voices that are going on around you, but when you kind of hyper-focused on your own voice and your own part, it's so easy to just block out the rest of the things that are going on there rest of the instruments that are playing that people were singing. Um, so I think that it's especially interesting seeing all the people who have add or ADHD in me.

It's funny, you mentioned that, I mean, I went to high school for performing arts, the Fame school, and I have 22 years classical vocal training under my belt. Wow. I come from an opera, jazz and showtunes background. So I, people never talk about that. But, um, I mean, I was performing Gilbert and Sullivan, uh in high school and what you're saying, I mean, I was captain Cochran at HMS Pinafore, and that was the only thing I focused on for three months until the show. And then every day after, because that was literally all I saw, um, at the expense of every other class I was taking. But you know, it, it, it becomes that when we love it, we don't need to worry about what's distracting us because we're not focused on it when we love it. Our brains are producing enough serotonin, adrenaline, and dopamine to allow us to focus. It's the things we don't love when our body doesn't produce enough of so we're constantly looking around for something to get us back into focus. So that speaks well, that speaks volumes. And was it, was it different? I don't, I don't know much about Alaska is one of the two states in, in my world. I have not visited Alaska and South Dakota are the two states that are not Alaska and North Dakota the two states had yet to visit, um, was it was growing up in, I mean, you know, this was growing up in Alaska and going to high school and I was, cause at school has a different world than what say someone would experience. I mean, I'm, I'm assuming you grew up in a city part of it, you know, but is it, is it still different comparatives, like a New York or an LA or something like that? What are you finding now that you're in Arizona and things like that? 

Ooh, you know, honestly the biggest difference, which this doesn't really mean anything is. 'cause when we would go to school in Alaska, right? The sun doesn't come up till 10:30 AM. So you'd go to school and it would be pitch black. And then you sit through your first three periods of the day and it'd be pitch black. And then finally the sun would come up and then by the time you're out of school, if you go to practice, you know, I'd go to swim practice, and then I'd come out and then it'd be dark again. And then I'd go home and it's pitch black. But I noticed it was a lot easier. I feel like it's a lot easier to focus when you go to school. And because I go to school in Arizona now it's nice and bright and sunny. I feel like it just. Allows you to focus a little more and puts you in a better mood. Yeah. Yeah. But in terms of the education system, I would, I'll ask. I have a pretty great education system. I haven't really noticed any big differences between Alaska versus any other school, any other states in their schools, but, um, um, I would say that going to school when it's sunny out makes it easier. 

It was funny. I was in Iceland last month and you know, we landed, our flight landed at 5:00 AM. Uh, it's a red eye and you get there and you're okay. And you know, you're in town by like 7:30 in the morning. It's pitch black, nothing. Right. And you know, you're walking around. You're like, oh, there will be light soon, but actually no it won’t, it's like three hours from now! So that happens. It was definitely a wake up call. Um, tell me about some of your extracurricular activities. So, you know swim team and things like that. Um, were you able to, how was your scheduling growing up and like as a young adult, were you able to schedule you know, waking up at 6:55 and being in the bathroom, I suddenly am. And it was, it, was it difficult to, to schedule things and to keep to those schedules when you were doing like extracurricular versus school versus out of school, everything like that?

Yeah. You know, I think another big part ADD, and ADHD is um, when you've got homework, right or when you've got a project, when you've got something to do, it's so hard to sit down and get yourself to do it. Right. So I would come home after swim practice and it would be like 4:30, right. Then I'd go eat dinner by the time it's like 5:30 and sometimes I would have, you know, volunteering or I dunno, Musical practice or voice lessons. And there were some late nights and then I would sit there with my homework and I wouldn't start some nights until like midnight or 1:00 AM. And I was like, great. I need to get up at 6:55 tomorrow morning, but here we are. And. You know, it was, it was, so it was so difficult, but I did notice that, you know, once I got medicated, all of a sudden it was that much easier to start a project, to start my homework, to start the things that I had been dreading but, um, I think kind of the biggest struggle with my schedule was actually getting myself to sit down and do the things that I needed to do. Most times I would sit down, get the pencil in my hand, have the homework in front of me, and then I'd be like alright, let; s go on my phone  okay, Yeah, I think that was my biggest roadblock in terms of, um, being productive and getting things done on time. But, you know, I also had this just like huge fear of being late or turning in assignments on time. So I did, I would always pull it off at the last minute. I always did it, but, um, But it's just so hard to get started. 

Couple of more questions that I want to be respectful of your time. Um, tell us about what your favorite sort of tricks or hacks are, um, that make your life work as well as it does with ADD?

Yeah. So one of the main things that I obviously had already told you was, um, scheduling out my mornings to a T, especially if I have an event, or I know that I have to do my hair and makeup. I've got to get the crown on and I've thought Uber there, I've got to drive there. Um, even down to like, okay, actually I have to allot time for myself. Cause right. Sometimes I'll get up in the more I’ll sit in my bed for 10 minutes before I get out. So I got to give myself those 10 minutes and my schedule, and then I got to get out and give myself 5 minutes for brushing my teeth. Cause I don't remember how long it takes to do this and that and go get the toothpaste. but, um, another one of the big things that people, you know, I'm sure you, you know, the, with ADD and ADHD is this idea of time blindness and that's one of the worst things for me. And so something that I'll do in the mornings, especially if I wake up a little bit late is also. Like a 5 minute timer on my phone that'll go off every 5 minutes just so I can keep track of myself. And I always wear a watch because if I don't wear a watch, 4 hours could pass and I'll make it two seconds. Right. But I'm always checking my watch. I'm always keeping an eye on the time. And, um, I'm always setting, setting short little alarms that go off every five minutes or every 10 minutes an hour usually if I'm spending the whole day studying. Just to kind of check in with myself and say, okay, here's the time. Here's how much longer I have, but that's probably one of the biggest things that has helped me, and I still do that every single morning. 

Really, really smart. Really.. that's a really good idea about the alarms every 5 minutes, just to sort of keep you in the zone because it's very true. I mean, and especially with what I love, my favorite, my favorite time in the world is knowing that I have nothing to do for the day and okay. I can just sit. No, I don't have this and that. I can sit and read a book. I can sit down. I don't have to worry about this or that. It doesn't matter. Um, tell us how people can find you, what are your social handles, if any, and how can people follow you and, and, and learn more about you?

So your schedules where you're going to be upcoming and all that. [[SEE ABOVE]]

Yeah. So people, my personal Instagram is Emma Broyles, Emma bro, Y L E S underscore, and then the miss America, Instagram, which is where all of my events and all of my, um, All of my appearances go are, that's going to be at miss America and then on the miss America, Instagram, and this is also the same for Facebook. You just can search with America, um, and Twitter, but, and there's a link in the bio of the miss America, Instagram, and I think there's somewhere on there where you can email info@missamerica.org. If you ever have a request for an appeal. And interview or what have you. Um, and then all types of information is in that, that bio as well. So I think my personal bio was there in the, on the website. Um, but yeah. Yeah. That's how you can find me on social media. 

I cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of what I'm sure is a crazy schedule. Uh, even though it's Arizona, it's a gorgeous day there. I hope you're enjoying it. Emmy Broyles Thank you so much for making the time to come on Faster Than Normal; I know it’s gonna be a phenomenal interview when it goes live. We really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me. This is really, really great. All right. Stick around for a second. Guys. You've listened to Faster Than Normal. If you like what you heard, drop us a review. If you have a guest, uh, Emma came to us by a suggestion so that it does work! So if you have a suggestion, pick anyone you want to. Let us know, and we will get them.. we will work our butts off to get them on the podcast. Um, you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all the socials. Our producer is Steven Byrom, he does an amazing job, give him a shout. [thanks Peter! I’m for hire! @stevenbyrom on Twitter and also via www.byroMMusic.com We will see you next week with a brand new interview. Thank you for listening. And remember that any form of neuro-diversity is different. Different is good. It is a gift. It is not a curse. We will see you next week. Thanks for listening.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Jan 19, 2022

Today I’m here to remind you that you’re not alone, that we are all going through this together, that you need to go easier on yourself, and that we WILL get through this pandemic & related crap -Enjoy!

As always, we are here for you and we love the responses and the notes that we get from you; so please continue to do that! Tell us who you want to hear on the podcast, anything at all; we’d love to know.  Leave us a review on any of the places you get your podcasts, and if you ever need our help I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! 

 

TRAANSCRIPT

Hey guys, Peter, Shankman the host of Faster Than Normal.

I want to talk to you guys just sort of heart to heart about what we've been going through for the past couple of years and what it's meant. Not only to the neurodivergent like ourselves, but to everyone, you know, because this is Faster Than Normal, really focusing on sort of us and what we're dealing with. Y’know.. I, and this isn't scripted. I'm literally making this up as I, as I talk. Um, these are just thoughts coming from my head so I apologize if they seem a little rambling, uh, or at least more, more, more rambly than my normal self. But you know, when the world shut down in, in, I guess, March of 2020, no one really knew how long it was gonna go.

 

People like us, you know, we're, we're used to adapting. Uh, the thing about ADHD is, and, and neurodiversity is that we're used to adapting, but we adapt with the concept that as we adapt things, at some point I can go back to some sort of normal that we can do. You know, and over the past now three calendar years, right, almost, almost two full years since this started, the concept of adaptation has pretty much been how we've had to live our lives, which is fine, except there's been no normalcy in that, going back to it. Right. In other words, okay. I'm not gonna be able to travel for awhile because the coronavirus, but that should end soon and I'll be back on a plane and so we look forward to that, right. Or, you know, oh, I'm not able to, to go to I'm better. I'm better at learning in school. I'm terrible at learning and homeschooling, but you know, it won't be that long remote schooling should be over by whenever. And it’s not ..and I guess I just wanted to talk for a few minutes about, uh, or talk to people like myself who are dealing with everything we're dealing with with COVID and this sort of new environment and this crazy world. And on top of which we're dealing with the fact that we're still neurodiverse and what works for other people or other people's ability to adapt, isn't like our ability to adapt and sometimes. We can't and sometimes we have to stop and look and say, oh my God, where are we? And how did we get here? And I need some hope to know that it's going to get better.

 

I can tell you that these two years have been really tough for me. Um, and for everyone, but you know, for me, and I can't really tell that to many people. Right. Because, you know, you say, oh yeah, it's usually like, oh, you know, what are you complaining about? You have an apartment and you're still, you're still making money and you have. Well, just because I'm not destitute or I'm not as in as bad shape as others. And I'm very thankful I'm not, but that doesn't make what I'm doing through any less than what other people are going through or, or it doesn't invalidate what we're going through. And I think that's the first thing we need to talk about is the fact that, that your problems, what you're going through are entirely different than what other people are going through. And they're both valid problems. And if you're sad and if you're upset about those problems, those are valid reactions just because you might not be homeless on the street or have lost your whole family to COVID doesn't mean that what you're going through isn’t valid and doesn't meant that it doesn’t need to be addressed and you need to take ownership of the fact that you're sad or that you're upset or that you're dealing with whatever it is you're dealing with.

 

For me, what COVID has brought into my world. Is the inability to travel for me, travel was where everything happened. Travel was where I did all my writing, travel is where I got my books, written travel is where I, I came up with new ideas and implemented them travel was my safe space. Being on an airplane, allowed me to do 24 hours of work in a three hour flight, and that went away and I didn't have that ability. I haven't had the ability. Last year, I traveled 39,000 miles on an airplane. The year prior to that, I took, I traveled 24 the year prior to that in 2019, I traveled 274,000 miles. So. To have that taken away almost immediately was a very hard wake up call and we kept assuming it would come back and it didn't, and again, we're still assuming it will. Right. And it has to, but we don't know when, and it gets very scary, not knowing when an after a while our ability to say, oh, everything's going to be okay. Starts to fade. And we don't necessarily have that ability anymore. We don't have that ability to say, oh, everything's going to be fine. Don't worry just a little while longer because we have no idea how long little while is going to be.

 

I bring that up because I want you to understand that it is okay to not be at your best during this time. I'm not, I am the furthest, but I'm not gonna say the furthest from my best, but I am certainly not anywhere near what my best currently is. And I know that I know where I am right now is not where my best is. And, and, and that doesn't mean I've given up. It doesn't mean that I'm not sure I can come back from it. It just means that right now, things suck, I am pretty sure that I am skating very, very close to some form of depression. I've talked to my therapist about this. Uh, I have no doubt that I, and many of us are skating very close if not full in to some sort of depressive episode right now, because there is no telling when this is going to end. I guess that's what I want to bring up more than anything else is that it's okay. It sucks, but it's okay to feel this way and understanding that it's okay to feel this way is the first step, I guess, towards being able to process it. And being able to recover from it. 

 

I look outside right now, I'm in my apartment. I gave up my office about a year ago, cause I wasn't going there anymore. I look outside and they see the streets are still emptier than they were two years ago. And then I look across, I looked the other way into Midtown Manhattan and, and, and the buildings were just empty. Right. I walked down the street and the stores are closed they are shut. New York city. I would say it's a ghost town, but it's a very scary place right now. It is not the difference between two years ago now is palpable and they talk, oh, you know, the apartments are coming back and the. You know, if you're working from home all day and don't leave your apartment in New York city, you pay your, you pay your rent or you pay a mortgage for what's outside of your department. And if you can't go enjoy any of that, what's the point. For the first time in my life, I started thinking about maybe moving out of the city. Um, obviously can't do it anytime soon. I have a daughter who's I split who splits her time between her mom and myself and, and, you know, can't just leave. Um, but I've been thinking about it. You know, maybe open space is what we need. Maybe, maybe some place with more sunshine or warmer weather. I mean, it's, it rained all night. It snowed all night and then turned to rain, now it's just a slushy gross gray day outside. And that that's certainly not helping things, but, you know, look, I know things are gonna get better. There's no question that things are, but it does suck right now. And, and I just want my listeners who I'm still so thankful with me, to know that that it's going to get better. I don't know when. I still have a hint of optimism that things are going to improve. I do. Um, I'm, I'm vaccinated, I'm boosted my daughter's vaccinated. You know, I hope that things are going to improve, but we don't know when, and we don't know when things gonna get back to any semblance of normal and what normal is. And I just, you know, I it's like I've been in situations like when I've been depressed, whatever before, and I'm like, you know what, screw it I'm booking a trip and I'm going to Asia. And the next day I'll just book a flight and go to Asia. You know what? I can't go to Asia now because it’s closed. Right. Or, you know, I couldn't even, because I have to take a PCR test and let's take 48 hours, whatever the case. I mean, it's, it's, there's always, it just seems like there's always something preventing us from being able to make it okay and, and that sucks and, and it sucks for everyone and it's not just you and it's not just me. 

 

And you look at Instagram, you look all these people sort of living their best lives, that there. And guess what they're offering. Right there. No one's living their best life. I don't care what they say. Right. There's an image I saw of a LinkedIn, this dock somewhere warm and tropical that dock. And it's a video of someone running to the dock and living carefree and just beautiful photo. And then another video zooms out there that this woman is running and there were 400 people online behind her to do the same thing.

 It's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. So I guess I pointed this sort of little mini Faster Than Normal episode. To let you guys know that it's okay to not be okay and we're going to get through it. I don't know when or how, but I do know that we're going to, and the best thing we can rely on right now is other people, as our friends, is people like us Neuro-diverse like us, people who we trust, who go through this with us. And so if any of you are dealing with that, I encourage you to reach out to me. I'm always happy to answer an email. You know, a tweet or whatever. Um, but yeah, it sucks right now and, and all we can hope is that day by day, it gets better.

 

So I just want you to know that I'm still here and I'll still keep doing this for as long as I can, and I hope it's gonna improve. And you guys are in my hearts. I'm thinking about you all. And yeah, I know it's a, an a non-normal Faster Than Normal episode, but I thought it was important to say that that. It does suck. And we all know that and it feels like sometimes it feels like our passion for all this is just non-existent. And even sometimes even just getting out of bed in the morning is the hardest fight we're going to have all day. And, but we do it and we're going to keep doing it and we'll, we'll make it somehow. You know, it's okay. If getting out of bed is literally the only thing you did that something, right. I there've been days where, okay. I got to work out today and I don't, and I feel like shit for not doing it, but you know what? I got out of bed and they made the bed and I got dressed into the shower and whatever and sometimes that's enough.

 

Go easy on yourself because. This is, I hate this term, but this is unprecedented and there are no books, there are no rules to teach us how to deal with the amount of bullshit that we have had to deal with over the past two years, there are no rules,

so go easy on yourselves. And, uh, I'm here if you need me. And we'll figure out a way to get the other side of this. I love you guys. Thank you for listening. And like I said, I know it's not a normal FTN episode, but we'll be back next week with a normal one. 

 

Next week. We actually have miss America on the, on the podcast so that's going to be an amazing interview. So I'll talk to you guys soon. Thanks for listening.

 

As always, we are here for you and we love the responses and the notes that we get from you; so please continue to do that! Tell us who you want to hear on the podcast, anything at all; we’d love to know.  Leave us a review on any of the places you get your podcasts, and if you ever need our help I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! 

Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

Jan 12, 2022

Today we learn how his daughter’s ADHD diagnosis led to a better understanding of his own superpower, and how his ADHD has been serving him for many, many years. His bio is below. Enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Bill Hamlen discuss:  

2:14 - Intro and welcome Bill Hamlen!

4:45- So, how were you able to hyper-focus with all that financial responsibility?

6:56- Stock trading and related chaos.. those are places where the faster brain really thrives?

7:23- Was there something about the pits that gave you a sense of Zen, or sort of a quiet hum?

8:50- So then how did you train yourself to come up for air and get out of hyperfocus?

9:56- Tell me about how ADHD affects your personal life and the different tools you use to keep that part of you solid too?

12:11- Ref: Delivered from Distraction Peter’s interview with Dr. Ned Hallowell

13:47- ADHD and addiction are very close to each other. Did you have a similar situation?

16:32- What do you wish you'd known back then that you know now about your ADHD and about sort of the way you've lived?

18:50- How can people find more about your reach out to you if they have any questions or if they want to share, if you're willing to give us some info on how to get to you? Mr. William Hamlen on LinkedIN

19:19 - Thank you Bill! Guys, as always, we are here for you and we love the responses and the notes that we get from you; so please continue to do that! Tell us who you want to hear on the podcast, anything at all; we’d love to know.  Leave us a review on any of the places you get your podcasts, and if you ever need our help I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! 

19:46 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

Bill Hamlen was born in Schenectady, NY and raised in Bernardsville, NJ where he attended Bernards High School.  After graduating from Dartmouth College in 1984, Bill joined Drexel Burnham’s commodity division.  While at Drexel, Bill worked in various areas including the international order desk as well as many different “pits” including all of the metals, softs, and oil pits.  He eventually landed a permanent position on the oil desk that included a year in Singapore where petroleum derivatives were just developing. After leaving Drexel in 1990, Bill worked at Rafferty Associates and United Energy brokering various energy derivatives.  In 2001, Bill joined Westport Petroleum, Inc. in their Singapore and London offices where he started a clean product trading desk specializing in the international arbitrage of jet fuel, gasoil, various grades of gasoline, and alkylates.  In 2005 he moved over to Westport’s heavy fuel oil desk in Singapore and specialized in the international arbitrage of heavy crudes and fuel oil.  In 2007, Bill joined Vitol Singapore’s heavy fuel oil desk and worked there until his retirement in 2015.  While at Westport and later Vitol, he sourced heavy streams in the USGC, Mexico, Venezuelan, Ecuador, Colombia, Russian, Bulgaria, The Middle East, Iraq, India, Australia, South Korea, Taiwan, Indonesian, Thailand, and Malaysia among others.  He also supplied blended fuel to ships in Singapore as well as power plants throughout Asia and the Middle East including India, Pakistan, East Africa, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China, and Vietnam as well as many other smaller destinations.  He also managed the complex hedging activities necessitated by all of these physical movements.  After leaving Vitol, Bill and his wife began a second career as real estate investors via their privately held Leeward Holdings with properties on Nantucket and in Hanover, NH. Bill was married in 1996 and has two daughters and the family currently lives in Hanover, NH.  Among other achievements, he is an Eagle Scout, a PADI certified diver, and completed a NOLS course as a teenager.  He has extensive open water sailing experience having participated on multiple voyages in the Caribbean and Pacific.  He is also the Chair of Planned Giving for the Class of ’84 at Dartmouth, the VP for the Association of Planned Giving Chairs at Dartmouth, and has served many other volunteer roles at the College. Even his abridged bio is incredible!! 

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TRANSCRIPT: 

I want to thank you for listening and for subscribing to Faster Than Normal! I also want to tell you that if you’re listening to this one, you probably listened to other episodes as well. Because of you all, we are the number one ADHD podcast on the internet!! And if you like us, you can sponsor an episode! Head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ It is a lot cheaper than you think. You'll reach... about 25k to 30,000 people in an episode and get your name out there, get your brand out there, your company out there, or just say thanks for all the interviews! We’ve brought you over 230 interviews of CEOs, celebrities, musicians, all kinds of rock stars all around the world from Tony Robbins, Seth Godin, Keith Krach from DocuSign, Danny Meyer, we've had Rachel Cotton, we've had  the band Shinedown, right? Tons and tons of interviews, and we keep bringing in new ones every week so head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ make it yours, we'd love to have you, thanks so much for listening!  Now to this week's episode, we hope you enjoy it!

Hey everyone! My name is Peter Shankman. You are listening to Faster Than Normal. We have taken a hiatus. This is our first episode back in about a month and a half. It was a good holiday season. It was fun COVID times now. And, but we're back it's it's early January. Daughter's homeschooling again. And we are thrilled to be back with all new episodes. We have some incredible episodes that we've already recorded coming down the pike. You're going to be very, very happy with what you hear in the new year. So I hope you guys are safe and well and vaccinated. And I want to introduce Bill. 

So Bill reached out to me after his daughter was diagnosed with ADHD in 2016 and he was based in Singapore and sure enough, I happened to be in Singapore right around that time for keynote. We weren't able to get together, but we did stay in touch and I found Bill's backstory and bio very, very fascinating. So I want to share it with you guys. Bill was born in Schenectady, New York and raised in New Jersey. He attended high school and Dartmouth. He joined a company in 84 called Drexel Burnham. I don't know if you, for those who are young and don't remember Drexel Burnham, Drexel Burnham was, um, one of the old school financial firms-the, I think the joke around that, around early nineties when things started to go south was that if Merrill Lynch and Drexel Burnham merge, would we call the company Lynch and Burnham. But I remember Drexel from the day and he worked in various and Bill worked in various areas there, including the international order desk, as well as many of the different pits, including all the metals softs and oil pits, and if you watched Wall Street And you see how crazy they get when they're trying to sell a stock or buys or whatever. Imagine that. 400 times the speed. He wound up eventually in the oil desk, he wound up in Singapore. He's got a bunch of stuff. He since reinvented his life, he started a second career along with his wife as real estate investors, um, in Nantucket and it Hanover New Hampshire, but keep in mind, he's ADHD. Because of that, obviously he couldn't just do one thing. He's an Eagle scout. He's a PATO certified diver. He's completed a NOLS course. He has extensive open water sailing experiences. He's competed multiple voyages in the Caribbean and Pacific. He's also chair of planned giving to the class of 84 Dartmouth, the VP of association, giving care to Dartmouth in addition to many other volunteer roles. Bill welcome. And you sound as crazy as I am. So it's great to have you. 

Thank you, Peter. It's funny. My wife jokes that I over-schedule myself. And I always say, well, I just schedule to my maximum ability, and then you come to me with extra things to do and that's when I get over tasked. 

Exactly. And I'm sure that goes very well. I'm sure that goes over very well when, when you explained to her that. One of the things that I find fascinating; you work the trading desks, right. And I mean, you started, uh, you know, after you left Drexel, you, you, you joined Westport Petroleum and then the second point trading in London offices, you started a clean product trading desk there, especially as in the international arbitrage of jet fuel gas, oil barrier, spades, gasoline, and alkalines basically, you were doing stuff where if you fell off.. we're talking millions or billions of dollars wiped off the balance sheet in half a second. So what I'd love to know, and I'm just gonna dive right into this. How were you able to, I mean, I know hyper-focus is a thing for people like us, but that would scare the living crap out of me. How were you able to hyper-focus that well?

Um, it's funny. I would almost put it in the, oh, I w I would reverse that, that when I first got into commodities, everything suddenly made sense. It was like a, the Rubik's cube pieces fell into place. The what, what to some people looks like total chaos to me was order. And the sitting on a desk with a bunch of phones ringing South Paulo, Brazil would call Hong Kong would call and you have to place orders and all the various pits. It was easy to me. In fact, that was fun. It was like a big game. So I always feel like I never worked a day in my life. All I did was basically play games. The games happened to be commodities and, but it was making order out of chaos. That just seemed. Um, soothing in a way. And so what from the outside looked stressful to me seemed like fun, like a big game, really. And then going down to the floor, the, you know, I was kind of in a commodity training program. So I worked in every pit learned about every, you know, orange juice, cotton. Someone was out, you'd have to go over there, then go to the gold pit. And you know, all that chaos was, it was just a big game. Uh, to me at least, or it seemed like a big game and the game was to make as much money as possible. Um, at that point though, it was just clerking. I wasn't trading and, um, it, you know, but I basically found my home and I, and I think in fact, if you go to a lot of, you know, wall street companies or commodity companies, and you look at the trading desk, you'll see a bunch of guys with ADHD. Uh, a couple of sociopaths, maybe a psychopath and a, and a bunch of engineers kind of keeping it all together, but there's a huge concentration of people with ADHD in commodities. And, um, it's, it's not a given, but you, you could see them. It's just clear as daylight. 

So it's one of those places where the faster brain really thrives?

Oh, absolutely. In fact, it's funny a couple of years ago, um, I have a, uh, former colleague, he went to Duke really, really played lacrosse there. Um, and I was joking. I asked him about ADHD and he looked at me like, I'm an idiot. Like, of course I am, I mean, that, that's how accepted and common it was. Um, yeah. And so there's a lot of people that, that seem to gravitate, um, to that type of chaos and that, and find it, find harmony there. 

I'm curious as to, how do I phrase this? When, when I get into a zone, when I'm doing something that I truly love, let's say I'm on a plane to Asia and I'm writing, I'm writing a book or something like that. I get into a zone and I just sort of have. I guess the best way to put it is this quiet hum in my head, that is my call it my hyper-focus hum. Right? And it just, no matter what chaos is happening, no matter whether there's turbulence or whether the flight attendants come over with food or whatever, the case may be, two people are fighting behind me; it doesn't matter that hum is keeping me Zen and focused. Did you find that the same thing? Was there something about the pits that gave you that same sort of hum for lack of a better word?

Well, I would, I get what you're saying, but it's funny in more realistic terms when I was in Singapore, I'd be on the desk in a conversation, looking at a spreadsheet, you know, maybe calculating what something's worth, but on the phone at the same time, talking to someone I'd look up. And it was, you know, 10:20, and there was no one else in the desk because we had a meeting scheduled at 10. I would not even notice everyone could leave the room, I'd be there. And then I w- but it didn't just happen once, you know, it would happen over and over and over again. And I, I had to really work hard. To, to get out of that. Hyper-focus but I know exactly what you mean. 

Well, what it's, here's an interesting question. What did you do? What did you, how did you train yourself? Did you involve other people? Did you say, Hey, when you're going into a meeting, you know, reach out to me, what did you do to get people into that? To, to, to, to get yourself, you know, helping with that? 

Well, I can tell you, it is funny. Like when I was on the phone, if I was sitting at my desk, I'd get bored. Um, so I would stand up and pace around the office in giant circles. Um, just to keep my brain focused. That's just how my head works. If I'm sitting at a desk and not doing something else at the same time, I kind of get bored. So I, um, so I came up with little tools okay. Based around the office and I would have a more meaningful conversation. In order to make the meeting, I would just schedule reminders that, I schedule reminders for everything. I'm a big list kind of guy. Um, I have lists for everything and those lists I create helped me, um, you know, keep order. 

Yep. Tell me about your personal life. So, so your, uh, ADHD is obviously very, very beneficial for you in this regard. Tell me about how it affects your personal life and what, what sort of changes or, uh, different things you've had to do to get there. 

Well, the it's hard to go there without telling kind of the backstory of my kind of discovery. And it has a lot to do with our daughter, who, um, at a certain age, in fact, this is what gets me angry about ADHD. And this is one of the reasons why I reached out; because her journey and my journey, um, it's a very typical situation I think. She was in seventh grade. Um, and we got called to school. This is UWC in Singapore. Um, and to give an idea, the level of understanding of ADHD in Singapore is there are about 25 to 40 years behind where we are here. 

I actually interviewed this doctor, on the podcast, a psychologist, the podcast from Singapore and she said, exactly the same thing. 

Oh, yeah. It's like stepping back in time, in fact, so, okay. So w we go into, um, we find out that she's struggling in math, she's just above the red line. They wanted to put her in learning support. And I fought back the vehemently because I believe that once she got into learning support, she would never get out. It's like a black hole and. So we had her tested independently and guess what? She's very, her processing speed was off the charts. Um, in fact, at one point we had her tested again for something else. And the, the woman that did the test said, I've been doing this for 20 years. I probably test 15 to 20 kids a year and she's the first one that has ever completed one of the sections. And so, and we started, so my wife and I, we looked back and it at her school in second grade, they said, we think maybe she has an eyesight issue. She needs glasses. So we had her eyesight tested, we're scratching our heads. And, um, anyway, fast forward, she, um, she started on Conserta

Yup. That's my drug of choice also. 

Right. Okay. Then we read, um, uh, uh, uh, Dr. Ned Hallowell’s book, um, Delivered from Distraction. Yes. And we started listening to podcasts and everything kind of fell in place. In fact, I forgot one key part of this. Is that, um, we had her tested and at the same time, my wife was reading the diagnosis of someone else that had ADHD and she's reading it and she's like, oh my God, that's our daughter. And that's when everything kind of fell in place. So it was kind of a combination of both the testing and, um, Yeah. And the reading diagnosis of someone else with ADHD. So at that point, I began to look back at my life and realize, huh, I like chaos at my own little Rubik's cube. All the pieces fell into place and I began to realize all the things I've been doing to cope. You know, I get up, I run in the morning in central park, when I lived in New York, I'd have coffee, I'd do all these different things. I needed to work out just to be able to see straight and, um, You know, so I began to see all the commonalities of the, um, Of the things I did to deal with it, and I guess it, um, and then I looked back at my career that, you know, for me, I liked playing games. I like eating good food. I like drinking good booze and commodity trading kind of combines all those things that I enjoy. And so, like I said, I never felt like I worked a day in my life. It was all kind of a big fun game to me. Um, so it was kind of perfect for someone who has ADHD. 

Let me ask the question. Um, it's it's you're you touched an interesting point. It's one of those industries where, you know, you work hard, but you also play hard. Right? I mean, I know just, just my, uh, my, um, uh, financial adviser, right. Once a year, he takes me out to dinner. He shows me how my portfolio is doing and, and, you know, five drinks in right? He doesn’t..you know it's not that we're going out to drink- you treat the client well, right, in any, in any sort of financial industry. So did that affect you at all? Did you, I mean, I know that I have a very precarious relationship with alcohol and a lot of that is connected to ADHD. ADHD and addiction are very close to each other. Did you have a similar situation? 

Yes, that would be, you know, I probably, um, well.. It depends in New York one, doesn't really go out to lunch really. Um, in Singapore, in, in London, it's kind of a different story. So, and it is very much, um, well, I should say, if you look at say the, the world of oil trading, it's a giant fraternity and it's a giant fraternity, um, of people that know each other and entertainment plays a big role in, in that industry. So you work very hard all day and you go out and celebrate at night. Um, and yeah, it, um, it plays a big role. Yeah. 

It never, it never affected you the point where you're like, okay, I probably shouldn't do this or I should cut back on anything that that? 

Um, well, for me, I can tell you, it was very clear when I was in my early fifties, I began to feel, um, diminished resilience. And that was really more a function of the stress, um, that, you know, without going too deep into it, sometimes when you have huge positions, um, you walk in and you ready to have a heart attack. And for the first up until my early fifties, I suppose if I had a superpower, it was the ability to endure enormous amounts of stress without thinking about it and I began to feel that that resilience diminishing, and that was my body speaking to me and saying, Hey, it's time to slow down. So for me, the signal was more about stress and less about other things. Um, I also, as I said, always would get up and need to workout first thing in the morning or at lunch. And I think that. Um, I think that the French have an expression to drink enough water with your wine and need enough salad with your foie gras, you know, working out, um, was always a way to balance out that aspect of you know, of my life. 

That’s very smart. So tell us last steps. What do you wish you'd known back then that you know now about your ADHD and about sort of the way you've lived?

That's a good question. Um, what do I wish I'd known before? Well, I think the, maybe I would turn that around a little bit and, and, and say that, um, I've heard that expression; it's like a Maserati engine with a bicycle brakes. And I think the understanding that ADHD can be a superpower was a transformational concept for me and for my daughter, but maybe more for young people. And I recently have had a friend whose son was diagnosed with ADHD and from the questionings, the line of questions he was asking, and from the tone in his voice, I got this sense that he'd been given some negative messaging from the school. And I thought, how tragic that was that, you know, it can be. And I, and I understand there's the, you know, there's a full spectrum for me. And I think in our family, a high processing speed is, is a part of it with less of the maybe other hyperactive issues. Right. And so we're able to harness that superpower and I get that it it's diff you know, everyone's a little bit different and that there are more difficult challenges that some people face but I think the understanding that, um, ADHD really can be a superpower is such a powerful message. And in understanding that figuring out how to channel that energy into the right direction, I think I was simply lucky to find something where I was able to channel it appropriately. Um, I don't think my knowing that I had ADHD would have helped me find.. I kind of stumbled into something that I loved And, but I think that, um, I think the, you know, to understand that people with ADHD have a superpower and it's important to try to find things in life well, ways to, to live with it, but also ways to channel it. Um, I think is the, is a message that, you know, I'd like to share because for me it was, it was a superpower.

Yeah, I love that. What a great way to when it end., um, Bill, I really appreciate that. How can people find more about your reach out to you if they have any questions or if they want to share, if you're willing to give us some info on how to get to you? I'm on LinkedIn. That's probably the easiest. Sounds good. And we'll put that, we'll put that link in the, in the show notes. Uh, it's under William Paul Hamlen. [actually under Mr. William Hamlen] Thank you so much for taking the time. I really, really appreciate it. You're our first interview of the year and it was definitely a good one. We'd love to have you back in several months as well to tell us what else you're working on.

Alright Peter, thanks, Happy New Year! 

Thanks again guys. As always, you were listening to Faster Than Normal. We love that you're here. Welcome back! This is going to be a really great year. We have a lot of new things coming up. I'll tell you right now we have some open space; you want to be on the podcast; you think you have an interesting story? Let us know what it is! I'm sure if you, if it's interesting to us, it's interesting to other people out there and you can help tell that story and share the ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We've been saying that since day one, we'll see you next week. Stay safe, stay healthy. Wear a mask.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

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