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Faster Than Normal - The ADHD Podcast

Having ADD or ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Hear from people all around the globe, from every walk of life, in every profession, from Rock Stars to CEOs, from Teachers to Politicians, who have learned how to unlock the gifts of their ADD and ADHD diagnosis, and use it to their personal and professional advantage, to build businesses, become millionaires, or simply better their lives.
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Faster Than Normal - The ADHD Podcast
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Now displaying: February, 2022
Feb 9, 2022

Stefan Hottel is a fellow ADHD-er from lighthouse point, Florida, and currently lives in Memphis, Tennessee. He was homeschooled for most of his childhood until attending the University of Memphis, where he studied biology & chemistry with aspirations of becoming a dentist. Stefan was part of the Emerging Leaders scholarship program, played for the hockey team, held leadership positions in numerous student organizations, multi-semester Dean's Lists awardee, and was involved in research throughout college. Since graduating undergrad, Stefan has co-authored five Academic research articles, started a Master's in neurobiology, and was accepted to Lincoln Memorial University College of Dental Medicine's class of 2026. After dental school, he hopes to continue his education in a pediatric residency with the ultimate goal of having a practice centered around treating special-needs patients. Today we ask how the switch from home school affected him, how he’s using his ADHD, and what keeps him successful in his studies, enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Stefan Hottel discuss:  

2:07 - Intro and welcome Stefan!

3:01 - When, where and how were you diagnosed?

4:54 - How was education & your studies when you weren’t being home schooled any more?

6:23 - What changes have you made since you’ve been diagnosed with ADHD?

7:42 - What is the most difficult thing about your ADHD; what drives you bonkers?

8:54 - Where do you do your best studying; what works best for you? Ref:  BrainFM episode!

9:50 - What do you do for fun, how do you recharge your brain?

10:54 - What do you wish everybody knew about ADHD that they definitely don’t?

12:05 - What advice would you give to someone who’s just getting diagnosed?

13:33 - How can people find more about you and what you’re doing? @dastefster on Twitter  INSTA  TikTok and Stefan Hottel on LinkedIN (linkedin.com/in/shottel)

13:48 - Thank you Stefan! Guys, as always, we are here for you and we love the responses and the notes that we get from you; so please continue to do that! Tell us who you want to hear on the podcast, anything at all; we’d love to know.  Leave us a review on any of the places you get your podcasts, and if you ever need our help I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! 

14:17 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

TRANSCRIPT: 

I want to thank you for listening and for subscribing to Faster Than Normal! I also want to tell you that if you’re listening to this one, you probably listened to other episodes as well. Because of you all, we are the number one ADHD podcast on the internet!! And if you like us, you can sponsor an episode! Head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ It is a lot cheaper than you think. You'll reach... about 25k to 30,000 people in an episode and get your name out there, get your brand out there, your company out there, or just say thanks for all the interviews! We’ve brought you over 230 interviews of CEOs, celebrities, musicians, all kinds of rock stars all around the world from Tony Robbins, Seth Godin, Keith Krach from DocuSign, Danny Meyer, we've had Rachel Cotton, we've had  the band Shinedown, right? Tons and tons of interviews, and we keep bringing in new ones every week so head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ make it yours, we'd love to have you, thanks so much for listening!  Now to this week's episode, we hope you enjoy it!

 Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal! My name is Peter Shankman. I am your host as I have been for, oh my God. I don't even know how long, like six years, I think five years. I'm like, I don't know. It's been a long time. That noise here in the background is Waffle the dog drinking. He hasn't made any noise all day. The second I get on this podcast, literally the second hit record is the moment he thinks let’s get a drink, idiot dog. All right, but I love him. 

Welcome to Faster Than Normal. Welcome to Stefan Hottle. He is a fellow ADHD or who will be talking today. He is from Florida living in Memphis, Tennessee. He was homeschooled until he attended the university of Memphis, where he studied bio and chemistry, two things I would never, ever, ever studied with aspirations of becoming a dentist. He's the third dentist we've had on the podcast. I have no idea why dentistry and teeth are so damn popular with people in ADHD. It's a very strange, we're going to find that out. Um, he was part of an emerging leader scholarship program. He played for the hockey team, held leadership positions, multi semester Dean's list award. Obviously very humble as well. And it was about the research throughout college. He's researched he's coauthored five academic research articles started a master's in neurobiology. Are you kidding me. He was accepted to Lincoln Memorial University College of Dental Medicine’s, class of 2026. And after dental school, he hopes to continue his education in a pediatric residency with the ultimate goal of being a practice centered around treating special needs patients. Welcome Stefan, nice to chat. 

Thank you happy to be here. 

So it's obvious that you're, you know, uh, definitely an underachiever haven't done much with your life. Um, when were you diagnosed? Tell us what that was like. 

I was actually, uh, I guess comparatively speaking, I was diagnosed pretty late in life, uh, at the age of 21 right before, uh, right after college actually, which is kind of weird. Um, but I think there's a good reason for that, which I've put a lot of thought into and a lot of that has to do with me being homeschooled. So I've heard you talk about it in the podcast a lot. Um, you know, you were just sit down and be quiet syndrome when you were in school, you know, and, uh, I never had to deal with that, so ADHD didn't really affect me when I was growing up. I mean, when I had long reading assignments. Uh, my mom would sit in the living room as I would literally pace back and forth, like building a Lego and she would read me my stuff, you know? And so I never, it never really affected me growing up because it didn't, my mom kind of catered my education around. And so we never really had to take me anywhere or get me diagnosed. And then college kind of. College is kind of easy for me, sort of, um, I also had a friend who he benefited from studying with someone else and he would fire, um, our tech, uh, questions that we made together based on the, you know, the, whatever the test is on and he would sit down and he would fire questions at me. And I would do the, kind of the same thing. I would like be doing something else. And as long as I was moving or whatever, I retained more. And so I just got kinda lucky, but then when I got accepted to dental school the first time, which we'll get into later, um, I was like, okay, the only problem I ever had in undergrad was I was always the last person to leave the test every single time. And sometimes I was the person like, okay, put your pencils down. And I had just to just like submit it because I was a slow test taker. And I was like, well, I think at dental school would be worthwhile for me to try to get extended test time. So that's when I went to psychologists and got a, and got tested and got diagnosed with ADHD. So that was after a undergrad. 

So what do you think that that being homeschool? So you mentioned homeschool obviously affected, you know, your case benefited you, but hit the real world type thing. Was it sort of a massive wake up call? Was it like a, oh crap. I'm in trouble type thing? 

Um, you mean socially speaking?

 in, in any, in any capacity, I mean, you went from basically having your mom who could work with you to now, you had to be, especially, you know, hitting dental school, whatever, you know, now you had to sort of follow the rules for lack of a better word.

Yeah. I mean, um, kind of, I think. I also, um, because I duo enrolled my senior year of, um, when we moved to Memphis from Florida was at the beginning of my 11th or the middle of my 11th grade. Um, which was tough, obviously, uh, for my dad's job. And then senior year of high school for me, I had the choice of either being homeschooled and dual enrolled in my classes or being the new kid senior year at the local high school. And I was like, nah, I don't want to do that. And so I took all of my classes for senior year at college. So my mom didn't teach me anything. And so I, dual enrolled, got those credits and started my actual undergrad ahead of the ahead of the curve. And during that time I had a light schedule, of course. Um, I think I took like 12 credit hours a semester. Um, so I kinda like was, it was an ease into it. And so I think it kind of helped me kind of the transfer from kind of a catered, uh, educational setup to kind of like the real world is what you're saying. So it wasn't too bad of a transition. I just knew dental school was going to be harder. 

Right. Interesting. So what, what changes have you made now that you've been diagnosed with ADHD? 

Oh, uh, I, I allow a lot more time to prepare because I know that like, if I have, like, let's say a week ahead of me, uh, or so many hours ahead of me to study for an exam, especially a dental school exam, I'm going to allow a lot more time and kind of like space and kind of schedule my time. I never really scheduled my time before. And of course, like everyone else's age or like most people with ADHD, I was a last minute procrastinator. I mean, I was, I was banging out the night before pulling all nighters as an undergrad, but you can't do that in dental school that does not work. Um, and so I I've been more, I've been scheduling my time more. Um, and, uh, and just taking more time ahead of it, because I know that like, Uh, six hours in a day after classes to study before it gets too late to, you know, it for it to be feasible. I'm not going to study for that entire six hours. That's not realistic for me. I'm going to study for like, you know, maybe 40 minutes and then I'm going to, you know, be distracted and take a break and get on TikTok or something and then come back to it. And so I know that I need more time, um, to do things then a lot of people do. And so I've come to know that. And so I will plan ahead of time. 

What do you find sort of most difficult about your ADHD? What, what drives you insane? 

Um, kind of that, uh, hyper-focused, which is amazing, but for me, and I'm sure other people will be able to relate, um, can also be a negative as far as school is concerned because growing up, I was interested in so many things. I mean, I, uh, got my dad to get me my first car that didn't run. It was a 1970 Torino. I researched basically on YouTube, how to fix a bunch of things I was into, I I'm, uh, uh, uh, trained Luther, which is an instrument builder. I can build electric guitars. I mean, I did so much stuff in high school cause I just had so many interests that like, it's so easy for me to get focused and get lost on something that's not the pertinent task at hand. And sometimes I'll just like a notification will pop up and I'll get lost for like an hour. And then I'm like, wow, I should've been studying for that hour. And I was like, researching like how to do whatever. And so that's like the most frustrating things for me is like, I can hyper focus, but it's not always on thing. I need to be focused on. 

Where do you find yourself, um, doing your best studying? So are you, are you, can you do it in your room? Do you have to go out what's you know what works best for you? 

Uh, definitely not in my room. Um, that's the worst study place for me because there's just so many distractions. I have my guitar and I have my Xbox, I have this and that. I don't, I don't do. I try to go somewhere. I typically like the library is good for me because coffee shops I've tried, but there's just too much going on. People coming in and out and just kind of loud and everything. I try to stick to the library. I'll pick like the most secluded part in the corner of the top floor or something like that and put my headphones on. I use a program called Brain FM. We’ve had the CEO on the podcast several times. Yeah. I've listened to that episode. Yeah. I love BrainFM, it’s a game changer for me. Um, I basically can't study without it anymore. Um, so I used that and put my headphones on and go to town as long as there's not a lot of movement distractions, that's where I do my best work. 

Very cool. Um, tell us about what is it like to have, uh, at your, at your age and with everything you're doing, what is it like? Do you have a social life? Do you, do you, what do you do for fun? What do you do to sort of recharge your brain when you're not studying children’s teeth?

Um, I, uh, I like to, at this point, um, I like to play guitar a lot on my free time, so I'll just, cause I've been doing that my whole life, well, since I was like 11, um, that's a big, it's a big hobby for me. Sometimes I'll play video games with friends. Uh, I'll go out every now and then it just kind of depends. Cause like a lot of times on the weekend, um, I have a test to be studying for and stuff like that so I know for me, like if I go out. Um, with friends on the weekend and I have a test on Monday or Tuesday and I'm like, oh, I'll just go out and, you know, I'll just study before study after it's probably not going to happen. So I try to keep myself from getting into that cycle. But, um, yeah, when I can, I I'll go out with friends, but I typically my hobbies, I just like play guitar and I'll play some video games sometimes with friends, but it just kind of depends on what's going on. 

Cool. What do you wish people knew about ADHD that you find that they don’t. What, sorry you find, they don't know. What do you wish people knew about ADHD? 

I wish. I wish that even still, I know it's gotten a lot better than when you were a kid. Um, but just the, the negative stigma that still surrounds it, um, that it's over-diagnosed which, you know, that's arguable or whatever, and that it's easy to get a diagnosis and easy to get medication. And it's basically even like, when I first got diagnosed, my best friend, kind of , after that, he was kind of like, that's not real. And I was like, I don't know, dude, but like, I wish that people had a better understanding of that. Like, it is a thing and it does, it's not like the end all be all, but I mean, it's real and it does affect people's lives and you have to cater how you approach situations, uh, because of it. And I just wish that it wasn't kind of like still sort of like, aha, everyone has ADHD. 

Yeah, no question about it. Very, very cool. You know, it's interesting. It's a fascinating world that we're in and the more people I interview, the more I realized that ADHD, it's not one size fits all. Everything is different.   What last, last question? What piece of advice would you give to someone in your situation who's just getting diagnosed? 

Oh, I would, um, honestly the biggest piece of advice I could give the, I learned a lot, um, is regarding, uh, medications. So if you choose to get medicated, uh, I think that in my opinion, you should try it with your doctor's recommendations. Go through that process. Try it. If it doesn't work for you. Fantastic. If it does. Um, the biggest, honestly, the biggest thing that's helped me is when I, of course I, when I was diagnosed, he recommended medication and I was like, okay, I'll try it. And, um, at first kind of like how I mentioned earlier, I would, uh, you know, take the medication and then I would get locked in on something that wasn't studying and get lost for like an hour and like super focused on something that was just, wasn't what I needed to be doing and just lose a lot of time. And the biggest thing that's helped me regarding that is to start the task that you want to be doing, before or at right when you take your medication; so when it kicks in, you don't get lost into something else you're actually doing the task and that's what you're going to be focused on because that's changed the game for me, I've been..my productivity has gone way up. If I just like sit myself down with my studies, um, material in front of me, don't look at anything else and then go for it because I've just wasted a lot of time being focused on other things that I shouldn't at that time be focused on. 

That makes a lot of sense. Very, very cool. Really, really appreciate that. That was actually a great answer. Stefan, how can people find you?

Uh, yeah, so, um, most of my socials is:

[13:33 - How can people find more about you and what you’re doing? @dastefster on Twitter  INSTA  TikTok and Stefan Hottel on LinkedIN (linkedin.com/in/shottel)

Awesome. Very cool. Thank you so much for taking the time. We really do appreciate it. Guys as always Faster Than Normal we want to, we want to hear from you, so send us a note one day, let us know.. a bunch of you responded and said you want to be on the podcast which is how we're getting so many great interviews lately. My producer is thrilled because he doesn’t have to keep bothering me to do more interviews. That's awesome. So send us more and we would love to hear from them and hear from you and hear what you have to say! We will see you next week. Keep that ADHD working for you. It is a gift, not a curse. We'll talk to you soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

Feb 2, 2022

In her own words: I am a wife, mother to one amazing daughter, and a fully trained human to a Chihuahua. I am a certified special education teacher and have been a special educator for 30 years. I now work as a special education consultant, Master IEP Coach® and am a member of the Master IEP Coach® Network. I've worked in the United States and England. During my career I developed my own behavior modification system that worked with all my students, which equates to hundreds of students. I am the author of “Those Who ‘Can’t…’ Teach”, a video podcast host of #nolimits and “Friday with Fran”. I am making the world better for all, one IEP at a time. Today we ask her about IEP’s, the behavior modification system she’s developed, what led her to educating and consulting, and her experience thus far. Enjoy!

In this episode Peter and Shelley Kenow discuss:  

2:10 - Intro and welcome Shelley!

3:30 - What called you to work in Special Education?

7:09 - What are the basics, what is the overview of the behavior modification system you’ve implemented?

8:12 - On the different ways to ‘listen’ for behaviors 

11:18 - On the concept of what ‘other’ people find appropriate; who makes those ‘rules’?

13:00 - Learning how everyone has their own uniquely wonderful lens  

13:44 - How are things for the neurodivergent in Europe/What was your experience like?

16:37- How can people find more about you and what you’re doing? www.shelleykenow.com  on LinkedIN  YouTube  @shelleykenowiep on INSTA @ShelleyKenowIEPconsultant on Facebook and via email: shelley@shelleykenow.com

17:22 - Thank you Shelley! Guys, as always, we are here for you and we love the responses and the notes that we get from you; so please continue to do that! Tell us who you want to hear on the podcast, anything at all; we’d love to know.  Leave us a review on any of the places you get your podcasts, and if you ever need our help I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! 

17:53 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

TRANSCRIPT:

I want to thank you for listening and for subscribing to Faster Than Normal! I also want to tell you that if you’re listening to this one, you probably listened to other episodes as well. Because of you all, we are the number one ADHD podcast on the internet!! And if you like us, you can sponsor an episode! Head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ It is a lot cheaper than you think. You'll reach... about 25k to 30,000 people in an episode and get your name out there, get your brand out there, your company out there, or just say thanks for all the interviews! We’ve brought you over 230 interviews of CEOs, celebrities, musicians, all kinds of rock stars all around the world from Tony Robbins, Seth Godin, Keith Krach from DocuSign, Danny Meyer, we've had Rachel Cotton, we've had  the band Shinedown, right? Tons and tons of interviews, and we keep bringing in new ones every week so head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ make it yours, we'd love to have you, thanks so much for listening!  Now to this week's episode, we hope you enjoy it!

 Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. Today's an interesting day. It is the day before I leave for Paris. Um, another international trip coming up, which is normally not that big of a deal, but I am dealing with the joy of COVID testing in multiple cities, in multiple places. So I am currently talking to you, uh, with a stick up my nose. I'm about to put it into a little home test and see what kind of results we get. So that being said, who are we talking to here? We're visiting with Shelley Kenow. And I hope I pronounced that right. She’s an education consultant. Today's concept is going to be all about education. We're going to talk about ADD ADHD and education. Shelley is a wife, a mother to an amazing daughter, and a fully trained human to a Chihuahua. I love that. She's a certified special ed teacher. She's been a special educator for over 30 years, working as a special education consultant now, and a master IEP coach. She's worked in both in the US and England and during her career, she's developed her own behavior modification system that works with hundreds of students. She's the author of  “Those Who ‘Can’t…’ Teach”  and she does video podcasting and makes the world better for all one IEP at a time. Welcome! How are you doing?

Thank you, Peter. I'm doing well. And I'm sorry to hear that you have a stick up your nose. 

Well, it's no longer there now it's in a little device and I'm going to wait 15 minutes and see to get again. For whatever reason I don't have COVID, you know, I gotta tell ya. I two and a half years almost. I was, I was in China when, when Wuhan, I was a thousand miles south when the virus was discovered. And, uh, I was, I went back to Asia three times before they, before. Uh, a thing and I was all over the world. I was in a Peloton class with 60 journalists from around the world, uh, in studio, um, the morning that everything was shut down in New York city. So the fact that I didn't never got it is just a lottery, but it's pretty crazy, but I hope that was a safe as well. Tell us what got you into special ed that's that's a, yeah, that's not something you do for the money. So you must have really loved, loved what you do and still love what you do. Tell us about your background and your history and, and sort of how that started. 

Yeah, no, certainly didn't get into it for the money and didn't get out of it because of the money. Um, I, when I was nine years old, I knew I wanted to be a teacher, but I wanted to teach students in the general education population and wanted nothing to do with special education students, because I didn't think that I was capable or that I had the right stuff, whatever that is, uh, in order to, to really be a good educator for those who had disabilities, um, throughout my, from the time I was nine, until I decided, yes, I'm going into special education, which was around the age of 25, I had that thought of, oh, you should teach special education. And I thought, Nope, Nope. That's not the path I'm supposed to take. That's not what I'm going to do. Um, I didn't have anyone in my family that had any disabilities. I didn't have friends that had any. And so I really didn't have any experience with anybody and your audience. Can't tell probably by my voice and you can't see me, but I'm 51 years old. So this was, you know, I was growing up in the time when the law was just coming into practice and things were just starting to change as far as kids with special education needs. And yet I never saw anybody with special education needs. Um, it wasn't until I was, um, Much older that I realized there had been a classroom down the hall from me when I was in third grade. That's where the special education kids were. We didn't see them, they didn't have lunch with us. Um, you know, the, the whole idea of inclusion at that time was non-existent right. And so I just really had no idea. Well, then the Lord put me in jobs where I was working with kids who had different needs. And I didn't realize that they were the ones who were considered special education, because I didn't know they had an IEP or an individualized educational program if somebody doesn't know what that is and, um, and I absolutely fell in love. And the thing that really shifted for me was a position that I had when we lived in England and I worked with kindergartners who had IEP’s and two of them had major behavioral issues that, um, we were able to address and help them. And I saw such a significant change from the beginning of the school year to once we, um, put a behavior intervention plan in place and were able to help these little guys, that was it. That was the final thing for me, where I just said, I've got to do this. This is absolutely what I love and I'm passionate about. And then for the next. I don't even know how many years, um, started working with special education, finished up my degree to be able to do that, then had my own classroom develop this behavior modification system where it really is something that applies at every age. Um, but because I was teacher, I used it with my students. I might've used it on my husband, but don't tell him I said that. Um, hehe, and I, I just absolutely every student that I worked with, it worked, it worked in varying degrees. It works with kiddos in individual settings, in small group settings, and in large group settings, it was used at one of the school districts where I worked with whole class General education students. And it was parts of it, not all of it, but it was able to, to, uh, show progresses in there as well. 

So talk, talk a little bit about it. So, you know, for an ADHD and sort of, sort of ADD perspective, what are the, what are the basics, give us the overview.

So the idea, the first main point of it is having a relationship with the student. Now that doesn't mean that you take them out for ice cream or that you, you know, do anything outside or, or even anything big. It's just a matter of letting the person know that you really do care about them. You really do want what's best for them. And having that understanding goes a long way and how much trust the person will give you in order for you to be able to walk alongside them and help them figure out, okay, why are you having this behavior? What is this behavior communicating? All behaviors are communication. So what are you trying to communicate? And when you're talking about younger children, especially, they don't often know what their bodies are trying to communicate. Um, and. Or what their behaviors are trying to communicate. It often comes out through body, um, behaviors, you know, they're, they're fidgety there.. and it could be that their body just needs movement, that could truly be what they're trying to communicate. Instead of saying, look, you know, you need to sit still or you need to sit in a desk or you need to, um, stop paying attention to everything and only focus on the teacher, understanding that some of those things are just how their body is built is what we need to know, and we need to get the person to know that about themselves as well. So walking, alongside, figuring out what the behaviors are, trying to communicate, adapting what we are doing as the person walking alongside and helping the person, um, who's exhibiting the behaviors, possibly find what they need in order to be able to safely and appropriately exhibit whatever behaviors that they have, um, you know, for somebody who has maybe ADHD, that they need a lot of movement, maybe it's getting them some sort of resistance bands on their desks or that they can hold, or, um, if it's something that, uh, you know, as far as being able to focus, um, giving them some sort of a fidget or, um, some sort of other sensory input that will maybe give them what they're looking for. I'm not a huge proponent.. I don't, I don't automatically go to medicine, but medicine is also something that can help and, you know, so just trying to figure out all of those nuances of, okay, there's a person, and usually we don't pay attention to behaviors that we want; we only pay attention to the unwanted behaviors. So figuring out how somebody can express what they need to say in a way that society ‘approves’ and that is ‘socially acceptable’ and safe..and that's really the biggest one, um, for that person. And then when they have that time, when they do misbehave, rules are there. We have to have rules. And one of the other things that I say is you have to be consistent, with exceptions. So what I mean by that is when a rule is broken, the rule is broken; there has to be a consequence. However, that consequence doesn't have to be the same thing every single time. and it doesn't have to be the same consequence for every single person it's having that relationship and knowing like, okay, why did this child misbehave again, going back to the behaviors or communication, what is going on? That you know, is this something that they really had control over? Did they not get enough sleep? Is there trouble at home? Do they not understand the material that we're covering? Um, what is it that is controlling that behavior and then determining like, okay, look, yes, you broke the rule. Yes, you need to have a consequence, but maybe instead of jumping all the way to the most severe consequence, we just give you a mild one this time, but you have to have a consequence because you did disobeyed the rules.

Brings up an interesting question, you know, the concept of, um, you, you mentioned doing things that other people find appropriate. Right? Right. Um, you know, w w who's who's drawing those rules, who's making those rules for what is and what isn't appropriate, you know, God knows. I am not. Uh, when you think about me, you don't necessarily think appropriate, uh, all the time, right. So, you know, what, what defines those rules as appropriate. And, and, and, uh, I guess, I guess I asked that question because I've always thought the concept of telling a kid you're not appropriate in a lot of ways, because I mean, not all the time, but sometimes can equate to you're different than everyone else, right? And you have to find that difference between being inappropriate by society standards and then just being different, which is not necessarily a bad thing. 

  Absolutely. No, absolutely. Like you talk about, you know, it’s ‘a superpower. Um, especially ADD and ADHD, that is a major super power. People who have that, you can multitask. And that's a thing that I can't do, um, to be perfectly honest, but who determines if it's appropriate or not? That's kind of why I use the word wanted and unwanted because a classroom teacher determines what behaviors they can tolerate and what behaviors they can't and what behaviors they want and what behaviors they don't want. Parents, we do the same thing and every person who is applying that ‘appropriate or wanted’ views things differently. And so that's the other thing is like, okay, you know, kind of getting the, the broad overview of quote unquote, socially acceptable norms, as far as behavior goes, But also being able to embrace exactly what you said. Like I’m, me and I am a wonderful person the way I am. And if some person has a problem with my, my behaviors, then that's as much on them, because their behavior is communicating something also. So learning, you know, that, hey, everybody's gonna look at you with a little bit different lens; that doesn't change who you are in your wonderfulness, that's on them and how they're dealing with their own wonderfulness, and how those two things interact with each other. 

No question about very, very cool. So this has been implemented in school districts. Is that what, how, when did you live in Europe and, and what's the, is there a different mindset, um, over there in terms of kids who are different? Um, I know that in Asia, it's, it's huge. It's a huge difference compared to America. What's it like in Europe? 

When we lived in England, it was in the middle nineties. My husband was military at the time. And so we lived on a military base. Uh, it just so happened that prior to us moving onto the base, we lived, um, on the economy as they call it. And there was a school basically in our backyard. So I volunteered at that school and they do have at that time. And I don't know if it's still that way today. They had a very different approach as to, it was much more individualized in the Gen Ed setting. Um, people were working on the same subjects, but they were working maybe on slightly different levels within those subjects. So they might all be learning the same concept, but as far as how much practice they did or the exact level of that concept, um, which is very different than the United States classrooms that I've been in because we are all, well, here we go. We have 25 people in here. We're all getting the same lesson. We're all getting the same assignment. We're all getting the same test, and you all have to just deal with it. Um, so at, at that time, And again, I can't speak to it today, but it did seem much more individualized, much more, um, what we have here in the states that I have seen that is kind of like this are Montessori schools, where they really work with the child's abilities and interests and let them kind of move at their own pace, but not exactly. 

I was a Montessori kid until Junior High, so I get it.

And so the other thing that I found really appealing about the schools that I volunteered in there were that they were year round schools. So you had more breaks, built in to the system, they still attended the same number of days per school year, or maybe, you know, maybe five or six different, but, uh, one way or the other, but the fact that they had those breaks so that the students could absorb what they had learned, give their brains that break and then.. they retained the information so much better because of that. And that's actually more where the science goes as far as having learning opportunities is you need the little breaks. You need to have stuff repeated and taught different ways. Multiple times. We don't do that here in the states. We like to just say, okay, here you go, here's the new skill. All right. That's on Monday on Friday. We're going to test. Okay. Next Monday, we're doing a different skill. All right, for.. and just lather rinse repeat. And that isn't necessarily well, it isn’t, period, the best way to do it, according to Science. 

No, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Actually tell us about, um, tell us like last question really, is how can people find more about you and about what you're doing and where can they look you up and where can they learn more about it?

[www.shelleykenow.com  on LinkedIN  YouTube  @shelleykenowiep on INSTA @ShelleyKenowIEPconsultant on Facebook and via email: shelley@shelleykenow.com]

so they, I feel like I'm everywhere, Peter. Um, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook. I'm on YouTube. I'm on Instagram. I have a website which is Shelleykenow.com and, um, that's S H E L L E Y K E N O w.com. Um, Parents teachers admins trying to help everyone. As you said at the beginning, make the world better for all one IEP. By helping everyone really collaborate and understand the student and writing an appropriate, and not what the law says is appropriate, which is why I use that word, um, IEP for each individual student. 

Great interview. Great stuff. Very, very interesting. I learned a lot today. Thank you Shelley, for taking the time. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Peter, thank you for having me!

Guys you’re listening to Faster Than Normal. I’m not going to say, you know what I'm going to say, but if you're looking, if we're always looking for new guests, if you know anyone who might be a guest or you want to be one yourself, like is just shoot me an email, Peter@shankman.com. We would love to have you, uh, ADHD is a gift. We all know that I'm going to go use that gift, and I think I'm going to go do a couple of hundred laps, that'll help. So have a wonderful day! Everyone, thank you for listening. We will see you next week with a brand new interview. Stay tuned. Stay safe. Stay healthy.

Guys. You've listened to Faster Than Normal. If you like what you heard, drop us a review. If you have a guest, uh, Emma came to us by a suggestion so that it does work! So if you have a suggestion, pick anyone you want to. Let us know, and we will get them.. we will work our butts off to get them on the podcast. Um, you can find me at shankman.com and @petershankman on all the socials. Our producer is Steven Byrom, he does an amazing job, give him a shout. [thanks Peter! I’m for hire! @stevenbyrom on Twitter and also via www.byroMMusic.com We will see you next week with a brand new interview. Thank you for listening. And remember that any form of neuro-diversity is different. Different is good. It is a gift. It is not a curse. We will see you next week. Thanks for listening.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week!

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