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Faster Than Normal - The ADHD Podcast

Having ADD or ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Hear from people all around the globe, from every walk of life, in every profession, from Rock Stars to CEOs, from Teachers to Politicians, who have learned how to unlock the gifts of their ADD and ADHD diagnosis, and use it to their personal and professional advantage, to build businesses, become millionaires, or simply better their lives.
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Now displaying: August, 2021
Aug 25, 2021

I wanna give a shout out to NANOVi an NG3 corporate entity who is sponsoring this episode! They make this amazing device that allows my cells to regenerate and get better after hard workouts and much quicker than normal. You simply put it on, breathe into it, for about 10, 15 minutes and it harmonically changes the cells in your body- it is pretty cool! When you think about harmonically changing your cells you might think about The Fly; yeah, This is nothing like That. It actually just makes you feel a little bit better, a little bit faster. Like, I did a 75 mile bike ride and training for the Ironman this past weekend and used it when I got home. I used it again this morning and I feel amazing. So thank you to https://eng3corp.com/lls/ for sponsoring this episode!

——

Steve Shane is the team leader for rapidly growing real estate team Porchlight Florida in Jacksonville FL. He has been a real estate and small business coach for over 5 years having been an affiliate coach for Tom Ferry and Keller Williams. Through his love of coaching and personal development, Steve found that research into brain science and how his brain was working lead him to create a systematic mindset ritual to keep him in a fulfilled and productive state. When his friends started to use the system during the pandemic to deal with their various mental health challenges, they all found relief through the program. That is how the GIVE ALL Neuro Journal was born. www.GiveAllJournal.com After reading Peter's book "Faster Than Normal," Steve also came to realize the program he built for his "mindfulness" was actually treating his potential undiagnosed ADHD. Enjoy!

 

In this episode Peter and Steve discuss:  

 

2:20 - The song Peter is thinking of was probably the basis for this Pumped-Up remix 

 

2:38 - Intro and welcome Steve Shane!  Ref: www.GiveAllJournal.com 

 

5:50 - So the premise of your journal is to have a system to keep you on track, or a “pre-scribed” routine if you will?

 

7:00 - What does it take to get you out of a rabbit hole?

8:18 - About the results of the first thing you don’t do in the morning/On unstructured time

 

9:48 - What is one example of when your feelings won control of your routines/rituals/systems?

 

11:21 - Resolutions fail, rituals succeed. What’s next for you?

 

12:44 - How can people find you?  www.GiveAllJournal.com. and @thegivealljournal on INSTA and @The Give-All Neuro Journal on Facebook and of course via AMAZON

 

13:12 - Thank you Steve Shane!  Guys, as always, we are here for you and we love what the responses and the notes that we get from you. So please continue to do that, tell us who you want to hear on the podcast, anything at all, we’d love to know.  Leave us a review on any of the places you get your podcasts, and if you can ever, if you ever need our help, I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! 

 

14:14 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

 

TRANSCRIPT: 

I wanna give a shout out to NANOVi an NG3 corporate entity is sponsoring this episode and you can find a link to them in the show notes. They make this amazing device that allows my cells to regenerate and get better after hard workouts, much, much quicker than normal. You simply put it on, breathe into it, uh, for about 10, 15 minutes and it harmonically, it changes the cells in your body. Uh, it is pretty cool. When you think about harmonically changing the cells you think about that will be the fly. This is nothing like that. It actually just makes you feel a little bit better, a little bit faster. I did a 75 mile bike ride and training for the Ironman this past weekend. I used it when I got home. I use it again this morning and I feel amazing. So thank you to https://eng3corp.com/lls/ for sponsoring this episode!

Yo yo, what's up everyone, Peter Shankman with Faster Than Normal. How are you today? I am great. I hope you are too. A whole bunch of drama because the Iron Man that I've been training for it for the past, God knows how many months, years, decades, lifetimes. It was postponed yet. Again, thank you COVID!!! Wear a mask. Just, just where you can still go to Walmart without a bra and in your underwear, I just, just wear a mask. Okay. Anyway. Things are good. I'm have my health. I have my daughter, I have my dog. That's really, I'm just breathing in and out. And another six months of training, you know, maybe I'll lose even more weight, so I'm trying to stay calm, but I'm glad you're here.

Welcome to our episode. I have a cool guy named Steve Shane. Here’s what it is.. systematic mindset ritual. Whenever I hear systematic, I think of it. Wasn't to unlimited. Who was the, it was a group Mars. Remember, uh, M a R R S Mars needs women. Um, I'm totally spacing on the song that a Mars needs needs. Anyway, they use the word systematic, and I always remember that when I was like 2019 or something. I need help. Anyway, Steve Shane is the team leader for a rapidly growing real estate firm in Porchlight Florida in team Portside Florida in Jacksonville, Florida. He's in a real estate in small business coach for five years and through his love of coaching, he found research into brain science and how his brain was working, and that led him to create the system. Mindset ritual. To keep them in a fulfilled, productive state. That's when you realized….. in my book. And that program had created for his mindfulness was actually treating his faster brain, and it was potentially undiagnosed. So we are going to talk to Steve, Steve. Welcome. Tell us about, well, tell us about you first and then we're going to talk about a systematic mindset ritual. Cause that sounds like a lot. It sounds a lot like elimination of choice. So I'm curious to hear it welcome to the podcast. 

Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me, uh, when I found your book, um, obviously I listened to it instead of reading it, because me sitting still holding something, it was very difficult. Um, and as I was listening to it, it was like hearing somebody like open up the rest of the windows in the house and all of a sudden I could breathe better. Cause I finally heard my story and I was like, oh, that's me, this explains so much. Um, and so I've been in the real estate industry for almost 10 years now, previously I was a musician and living a life of an artist really makes being, having whatever this undiagnosed thing I have is really easy cause nobody has high expectations of you as an Artist. And then as I entered into the business of selling residential real estate. I realized that my, my busy brain was getting in the way of me making money and being a good partner in a, in a, in a relationship and being a good Dad. So I started diving hard into the personal development world, um, and that really helped me get control of my busy brain, which I did not realize until your book was kind of add ADHD. And part of that I got became a small business coach coach, a lot of real estate agents and a lot of small business owners using the knowledge I was getting from those personal development books. Um, and. Really into Joe Dispenza, Dr. Daniel Amen. Um, a lot of the stuff that Tony Robbins talks about and it's about understanding how your brain works. And as I started developing my own little program, uh, for a relationship that was failing, my marriage was failing and I needed something to keep myself in a prime state, so I could continue to go make money and take care of myself, I built this little program out just for me, just so I could be okay. And then I bumped into a friend who was having a hard time and I was like, Hey, this is working for me. Why don't you try it. And it worked for him and he shared it with a friend and that friend liked it and it was positively impacting people in my community. So I was like, eh, maybe on to something. So we developed a, what is called the Give-All Neuro Journal, um, using brain science and using it; this idea of wellness and making it a system. So every morning you can wake up or afternoon wherever you want to do it can put you in a prime state of, uh, fulfillment and productivity.

So the premise is essentially having something, having a plan, having a system that you follow. So you don't fall off the rails or fall off the tracks. 

Yeah, absolutely. I've found personally really, even more so recently, um, that I need a recipe. I need a prescription for everyday tasks that normal people do without issue, like waking up in the morning and I need a ritual and I need a routine and I don't hang myself up on the cross if I mess up, cause that's going to happen. We're going to have days when our brain is going, go go down the rabbit hole. I was thinking about our call today and I was trying to think of like, there's this specific type of bee and it has this hole and then as I'm thinking about this, be 25 minutes later, I'm way down the rabbit hole on a Google search. Um, and all I've tried to do is figure out what kind of worker bee goes out and explores the world. And, and it has these ADD entrepreneurial, um, characteristics to it. But if I didn't have a routine to say, okay, now I've got to get back on the beam. I could have gotten lost for much longer than 25 minutes.

Yep. So tell us, tell us what that is to get you back because that, you know, that is the rabbit hole. You know, I talked about it, the book, you know, you're looking up one thing and then you're six hours later you're investigating Roman sewage canals from the information times.

Yes. Um, so for the GiveWell journal, it's, it's, it's an acronym. Uh, G is for gratitude. I intention, V for visualization, E equipped, a appreciation L learning. And finally the last L is love. Um, and all these things are are treating certain neurochemicals to be released in your, in your head and, uh, in your body. Um, so that is designed just to kind of get you in a place where you're calm and still in your focus, on the right stuff. And so the, the elimination of choice that you mentioned before, it's not so much the elimination of choice; it's just a railroad track for me to get back on when I get off the beam, and when I get off the beam, that's when I lose that productivity. And then if I lose that productivity, then the shame spiral starts. And then the shame Spiral starts, then I'm, you know, going hard on the sugar and the candy and all the things that I'm using as coping mechanisms. All of this is just designed for me to not fall off the railroad track. 

I love that. It's interesting because you know, one of the things that, that you see all the time is that it's not so much the first thing that you do that knocks you out. It's the result of the first thing you do, right. Okay. I didn't work out this morning. Okay. You know, in a normal person, we, you say, didn’t work out on this one, I missed it. Screw it, I’ll do it tomorrow. You know, somehow OUR not working out in the morning, you know, ends with 18 slices of pizza and a bottle of tequila and we have no idea how that happened because it was started off pretty easily. I don't even work out.  No, you know, I joke that it's like, it's like one mistake for us is like summer, right? June 1st comes out our it's awesome. Next thing I know, how the hell did it become August 23? 

Yeah. The worst thing in the world for me is unstructured time.

Yep. 

Um, if I have the opportunity to have all the choices, I never make the choice that is going to make me either feel good later or a help me move forward towards mine, my objectives and goals I will without fail find myself in front of a. Netflix marathon or, you know, on my sixth cup of tea when I really didn't have anything to do anyway, now I'm, over-caffeinated overstimulated and trying to, you know, get back on the beam 

and that's where it starts going down hill.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But then, then those feelings kick in and the feelings for me, um, that's where I get into trouble because feelings turn into actions. 

So just for kicks. Tell us one of those. Tell us one of the action stories, where the, where the feelings kicked in. What did you tell us? Something that you did that you, you know, that you looked at and okay I'll never do that again because now I have this system. 

Honestly really recently in the past four or five days, I've had to create a nightly routine for myself. And I sat down with a pen and paper and wrote down what I'm going to do every single night. I'm going through a divorce. So I'm spending a lot more time by myself right now than I have in a long time. Um, And my evenings are full of scrolling. Um, you know, Facebook marketplace looking for a, a motorcycle or, you know, playing that 13th level of candy crush for the evening, like it, and I just felt myself. Like knowing that there's no reason it's 1230 at night. There is, I'm going to wake up at 5:00 AM in the morning because that's my routine. I got to go to the gym at five so I can have a good day. So I was ruining my 5:00 AM routine by not taking care of my 9:00 PM routine. 

Yep. 

So recently I've just literally in the past few days, and I'm starting to call them recipes or prescriptions. I'm not exactly sure which catchphrase I'm going to use, but I need a prescription for basic tasks. Um, and I need a recipe for basic tasks. So I created a basic task thing where I'm, you know, pull out my computer with plan the next day, do a couple pushups, you know, read a book. I spend five minutes meditating, these little things so I can go to bed at a decent hour and my next day can start on time. 

Yup. No question. And I think that one of the things, you know, as the more we do this, the more you really. That you know, it's not that hard once you adapt to the system. I always say Resolutions, fail, Rituals succeed. Right. You're building those rituals to continue on and on. So what's the next step for you?

Right? 

Are you, are you. Obviously, this works for you and your friends uh, what’s next for you?

in the, the, the journey of a journal or the journey with my, my newly found ADHD?

Both

Um, well, I'm, I'm going to continue to use ritual, uh, in my life. Um, that has really been the leveling up tool I've used in everything. The minute I get something on a calendar, the minute I get it on paper, now I have a plan. And then the thinking process that gets me overwhelmed and distracted and, you know, out of the way, if I can jump on that, on that plan, I, I will perform on that plan every single time. And I will do it faster than the average person. Um, And then for the journey of the ADHD, it's just understanding that this is now a part of me. It's not defining me and it's not, um, you know, I've made it 39 years without knowing what my life is. You know, what this tag was. Um, now what does it mean to live with it and use it as a superpower? 

Yup. Awesome. How can people find you cause I have a feeling that some people are gonna want this. 

[[12:44 - How can people find you?  www.GiveAllJournal.com. and @thegivealljournal on INSTA and @The Give-All Neuro Journal on Facebook and of course via AMAZON]]

Um, definitely check out, uh, give all journal.com.Uh, if you're on the Instagram, we are, uh, at the give all journal, um, and come check us out. We're also on Amazon too. Um, prefer if you guys go through the website, uh, cause fulfillment's easier. I'm doing fulfillment for my living room too. So. 

There you go. Why, why give I give just three more cents to go into space?

Awesome. Very cool. Steve Shane, thank you so much for being on Faster Than Normal. This is awesome. I love the concept. The concept of having the routine, it really, really does work for ADHD. There's no question about it. So really great to have you on, I'd love to have you back in about a year or so. Let us know how it goes. 

Thanks. I appreciate it. Thanks for making time today. 

All right guys, as always FasterThanNormal is for you. Let us know what you like, what you hate. Uh, and if you're in New York and you want to hang out, let me know that too, by my, you know, my travel schedule, which was, you know, 300,000 miles a year has obviously shrunk a lot. I’m doing a lot of virtuals and that gives me a lot of free time. So I'm scheduling everything In. So if you want to hang out, go to shankman.com. Let's meet up. Let's chat. Let's go for a run. Let's go for a cycle, a bike ride, whatever, as long as we're not sitting at a table. And, and, and, and you know, both being bored, I'm happy to walk around with you exploring New York City. Anyway. Thank you for listening to Faster Than Normal, reach out anytime. That is why we're here. Uh, I'm @petershankman on all the socials. Steven Byrom @stevenbyrom is our wonderful, wonderful producer, and he's just a God; he saves me every week. We will see you next week with a brand new episode. Thanks for listening. And remember ADHD. It's a gift, not a curse as is all Neurodiversity!

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Aug 18, 2021

I wanna give a shout out to NANOVi an NG3 corporate entity who is sponsoring this episode! They make this amazing device that allows my cells to regenerate and get better after hard workouts and much quicker than normal. You simply put it on, breathe into it, for about 10, 15 minutes and it harmonically changes the cells in your body- it is pretty cool! When you think about harmonically changing your cells you might think about The Fly; yeah, This is nothing like That. It actually just makes you feel a little bit better, a little bit faster. Like, I did a 75 mile bike ride and training for the Ironman this past weekend and used it when I got home. I used it again this morning and I feel amazing. So thank you to https://eng3corp.com/lls/ for sponsoring this episode! 

——

Alex Gilbert is a New Yorker, a Mets fan, a yogi, and a brunch enthusiast. She also has dyslexia and ADHD. After spending her career working in leadership development, she decided to start a consulting and coaching business that will help adults with learning disabilities and/or ADHD like herself who have been struggling in their careers. Her business, Cape-Able Consulting, was created to help them navigate their day-to-day workloads so that they feel supported and are able to reach their highest potential. Her biggest goal in creating Cape-Able Consulting is to change the stigma surrounding learning disabilities/ ADHD by reminding people what they Cape-able of. Enjoy!

 

In this episode Peter and Alex discuss:  

3:42 - Intro and welcome Alex Gilbert!

4:00 - On why Alex started her business

5:40 - When were you diagnosed?

6:50 - On how the extra tools we’re given in school don’t really work in the real world

7:50 - What is the number one request you get from your clients?

9:53 - How there is no “quick fix” for those of us with ADHD, Dyslexia, and so on

11:26 - A little about Alex’s coaching techniques and how they’ve evolved

13:00 - About why it’s important to stop looking at yourself as if you’re broken

15:00 - Sometimes having Dyslexia and ADHD makes you the only good candidate for a job!

16:00 - On not eating the entire elephant at once/seeing the longer solution-solve/big picture

16:57 - How can people find you? https://www.capeableconsulting.com  @iamcapeable on INSTA @CapeAbleConsultingLLC on Facebook and Cape-Able Consulting LLC on LinkedIN 

17:11 - Thank you Alex!  Guys, as always, we are here for you and we love what the responses and the notes that we get from you. So please continue to do that, tell us who you want to hear on the podcast, anything at all, we’d love to know.  Leave us a review on any of the places you get your podcasts, and if you can ever, if you ever need our help, I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! 

17:56 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hi guys. My name is Peter Shankman. I'm the host of Faster Than Normal.  I want to thank you for listening, and I also want to tell you that if you've listened to this one, you probably listened to other episodes as well of Faster Than Normal.  We are the number one ADHD podcast on the internet, and if you like us, you can sponsor an episode.  Head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ It is alot cheaper than you think. You'll reach... God about 25….30,000 people in an episode and get your name out there, get your brand out there, your company out there, or just say, thanks for all the interviews we brought you over 230 interviews of CEOs, celebrities, musicians, all kinds of rock stars all around the world from we've had... God, who have we had...we've had Tony Robbins, Seth Goden, Keith Krach from DocuSign, we've had Rachel Cotton, we've had  the band Shinedown, right? Tons and tons of interviews, and we keep bringing in new ones every week, so head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ and grab an episode, make it yours, we'd love to have you, thanks for listening.  Here's this week's episode, hope you enjoy it.

Hellooo everyone, I am thrilled that you are joining me today for another episode of faster than normal. If I sound like I've just been punched in the mouth. Well, I'm not that far off. Dental work this morning. And so I am going to be drooling and slurring some words, and we're just gonna have a lot of fun. I can not currently cannot feel the upper part of my mouth, but that is okay, it should be a lot of fun anyway, and Hey, you get to laugh at me. So there's a bonus even there. Um, I am glad that you're joining us today on another episode of Faster Than Normal. It is exciting to as always to not only have the wonderful guests we do, but the audience that really makes this podcast what it is, and it means the world to me that you continue to download these episodes and listen to them. It really, really. And I am really, really grateful. 

I wanna give a shout out to NANOVi an NG3 corporate entity is sponsoring this episode and you can find a link to them in the show notes. They make this amazing device that allows my cells to regenerate and get better after hard workouts, much, much quicker than normal. You simply put it on, breathe into it, uh, for about 10, 15 minutes and it harmonically, it changes the cells in your body. Uh, it is pretty cool. When you think about harmonically changing the cells you think about that will be the fly. This is nothing like that. It actually just makes you feel a little bit better, a little bit faster. I did a 75 mile bike ride and training for the Ironman this past weekend. I used it when I got home. I use it again this morning and I feel amazing. So thank you to https://eng3corp.com/lls/ for sponsoring this episode!

We have a fun guest today. We're going to be talking to Alex Gilbert. I love the first line of her bio. Alex Gilbert is a New Yorker, Mets fan, a Yogi and a brunch enthusiast who also has dyslexia and ADHD. So with the exception of the Yogi part We're we're, we're very, very similar people. I have been a long suffering mess fan all my life. 

Funny story. I was a, I've been a Mets fan. I've publicly been a Mets fan since I moved out of the house, uh, moved out of my parents' house back in like, I guess in 1990, uh, my father was born and raised in Brooklyn and my mother was born and raised in the Bronx. So until I moved out of the house, I wasn't allowed to have a favorite baseball team, but it was secretly the Mets. And I remember watching game six, uh, give a shout out to Michael Sergio, uh, who is a, who's a skydiver. You probably know, as a skydiver who jumped in to game six with a sign reading, let's go Mets and scared the hell out of Keith Hernandez landing about two feet behind him. So I met him at the ranch during one of my jumps, really, really cool guy and holds an incredible distinction. And he also spent some time in jail for that because he didn't give up the pilot who flew him there. So he's not a rat, so he's a really good guy. 

Anyway, we're gonna be talking to Alex. She is pretty awesome. She spent her career working in leadership development and she decided to start a consulting and coaching business that will help adults with learning disabilities and or ADHD like herself who have been struggling in their careers. And God knows that is a well needed business. Her business is called Capeable Consulting, but she spells it CAPE - A B L E. So cape-able was created to help them navigate their day-to-day workloads. They feel supported and able to reach their highest potential. Her biggest goal in creating capable consulting is to change the stigma surrounding learning disabilities and ADHD by reminding people of what they're capable of. And that's the part that really got me excited to talk to you. Welcome Alex. Great to have you here. 

Thanks for having me. I also love that Mets intro it just, you can't see my face, but I'm glowing. I just, I love Mets talk. 

So, you know, it's interesting. I was just talking to someone; it's really hard if you go through life being told you're broken and being told that all your positives are really negatives. It's really hard to accentuate your positives when you grow up because you don't believe you have any. 

I mean, I think that's really why I've wanted to do this for so long is because I was told so often as a kid, by teachers and other adults that I was stupid or less than, and I never really believed it and I really, I owe my parents for that. And it's an amazing resource from teachers that I had who were really supportive of me and could see me for who I was outside of testing and scores and other things like that. You know, there are so many abilities that people with a learning disability or ADHD have that I want to help people embrace and understand that they're so unique and special. And that's what we should be focusing on rather than all of the downfalls of the pitfalls, because everybody has things that they're not good at but for some reason, if we don't fit in the box of quote unquote, normal people are the first to jump and say, well, you're not good enough. And I hate that. So that was part of why I started my business.

When were you diagnosed? 

So I was really privileged to be diagnosed at eight years old because my parents thought to get me outside testing and I had resources pretty much all the way through college. But when I graduated from college, all the resources that you have in school don't exist in the workplace. So the tools that you use in school even apply to anything, the workplace. So I had that foundation early on and I'm really grateful for that, but that didn't really help me in my career. 

It's a really good point. You know, we, we put a lot of kids on medication and we, we give them, you know, sometimes we give them these, these extra tools, they can get extra time on the test, things like that. But the real world, uh, it's a little different, right? And the, one of the big problems is you have kids who are on medication, all their lives. And then when their insurance runs out, you know, they get off their parents' insurance and they got nothing left and they're like, well, now what they've learned nothing. 

Right. Right. And that was, I, you know, I have a lot of friends who are resource teachers and in special ed. And I remember talking to them about how I was starting this business. And they said, well, you know, we really hope that you would know what to do once you graduated. And I think that's the problem, you know, it's like 18 years old, you're good. You're cured, but there's no real cure. And even thinking about some things. Things that you mentioned about having extra time on a test? I can't ask my boss for more time when he dropped something on my desk and says, I need it two hours. Right? That's not realistic. And the mindset and the mentality and the anxiety that all stems through those conversations of do I share that I have a learning disability or ADHD, will they think I'm not good at my job? Will they fire me for those things?You know, There's so much that is stimulated from those and spirals out of control and no one prepares you for that. 

What do you, what is the number one thing you get from clients that you work with? What's what's, what's the overwhelming, uh, thing they want to fix for lack of a better word, and it takes the bad word, but the only thing they want your help with.

I think people come in asking for someone to fix everything for them. And I think you using the word word fix is really important because I think that's what people are looking for. A lot of, especially ADHD. People are looking for something that's quick, you know, we're, we're usually hyperactive and want something that you can just check off the box and be done with it. But that's not how life works in a lot of ways. And a lot of people have come to me, say, They're disorganized or they don't know how to talk to their boss or they're really burnt out. And I really want to take a step back from all of that and start where they are, because we can't really solve any of the problems that they're coming to me with, unless we actually know what the root of that is. And so I start with the, uh, with my one-on-one coaching clients, I do something called getting to know you package. And we really start from the basics, because you had mentioned earlier about being put on medications and not having any of those tools when you get older and now you don't have any, you know, you can't afford the medication, what are you supposed to do? You don't know how you think. You don't know how you learn. You don't know how you organize and everyone has those abilities, but we've been trying to fit into somebody else's box. That's not realistic. And so I really tried to take a step back and say, okay, what part of your day do you feel your best? What part of your day do you feel you're struggling with? You know, and we really work backwards to get to know themselves. 

Excellent, uh, answer, you know, I think that one of the big problems, um, is exactly what you mentioned. And then I am, I'm, I'm angry at myself now for using the word fixed, but the premise that there's just this one thing that can fix me, right. That can. Right. First of all we’re not broken, so the fixing is, is ridiculous to begin with, but the premise that, and especially it's, it's sort of twofold. It's, it's a double edged sword. We go in eight. The concept of ADHD is that, especially like, you know, for instance, you have an argument, right. You in this argument. Okay. I want to, um, I want to clear the air and fix this problem and let’s.. I'm sorry. Let's move on. And, and people that are usually often can't do that and which usually people where they usually look at those people. You know, god, why won't you let this go? Because they can't, they need to be, to process their own way, as opposed to us just says, you know, and then, so that that's that's that in itself, you know, is the quick fix that we're always looking for, but, but for ourselves, we can't offer a quick fix to ourselves. We have to, uh, it's a lifelong process. Just like you said, it's, it's similar in any way, in any way to, um, to, to in many ways to other, for lack of a better word diseases, you know, the concept of you're not cured of being an alcoholic. Right. You're not cured of things, so you're not cured of being ADHD, but you can learn to utilize it to your advantage. And so that I think is the first lesson. If people aren't coming to coaches or doctors to be cured you, you, you, you, you build to get cured of a disease that can kill you this disease. And I hate again, stop using that word. This is something that if we learn to use it, Can help us. And so I'm assuming, you know, when you, when you tell us your advisors to me to get that, that sort of first mind blown moment there, right?

Yeah. A little bit. And the thing is, it's kind of why, like my coaching practices and philosophy is what it is. So I coach based on the theory of best practices versus best principles, because best practices. Which is a common term that's used all the time, assumes that everyone could do the exact same thing and end up with the same results, but that doesn't work and that doesn't work for anybody, but that especially doesn't work for someone who has ADHD. So I really try and go with best principles, which is we have the same goal in mind, how we get there, is going to be up to you and that's the best way to move forward because that's, what's going to be sustainable and help you thrive as you move forward. And to really go through that emphasis of figuring out what your strengths are. I think a lot of people don't necessarily know what their strengths are because they've been suppressing everything else for so long, because again, they've been trying to fit in somebody else's box that's not realistic to them. And you know, that's something I want to really help people figure out is all of those amazing skillsets that they have because they have ADHD or a learning disability. 

I would ask the question of that. It's a hard thing to teach because when, when you're drilled into, um, this whole, oh, I have, you know, I'm broken. Probably an example to, to relate it to something that I could deal with- I did this long bike ride this weekend and I have new new handlebars and the, the, I guess they need to be adjusted because the way I was holding it, I, my left finger left index finger went numb and it's still three days later. Right. And so I'm hoping that it stops being numb, but you know, if you, I was holding it there for five hours and the result was no, it's numb. If you're told your entire life that you're broken, you have a hard time believing you're not. And even harder time thinking that, wow, this stuff that everyone's not broken about, maybe that might not be broken. Maybe there's something I could do with it. And so the hardest thing I think for you as a coach probably is changing the mindset before you even implement the rules, changing the mindset of stop looking at yourself like you’re broken. 

Oh for sure. But I think that's, that's a lot of what comes into play is people feel broken. I mean, there's such a high correlation between people who have a learning disability or ADHD and struggle with mental health. I mean, all of that horrendous language and all that demeaning and demoralizing language that's been used on you for years is there, whether you go to therapy and talk it through or not, I mean, I had written on my blog this piece about my anxiety, my origin story, talking about my fourth grade teacher who would call me out and yell at me in front of, you know, the rest of my classmates. He would pull me outside and scream at me in the hallway. And I wanted to miss school all the time, because I didn't understand why when I asked a question, he constantly made me feel stupid. So, you know, and called me stupid in front of my classmates over and over and over again. So, you know, yes, all of that is there, but it takes a lot of time to build forward and say, not only am I not staying, but there are so many things that I'm good at- really, really good at! I mean, I did last job that I had, um, before the pandemic I was working basically in a campaign role and I was offered this job six times. I turned it down five times, because I thought this was too overwhelming of a job. It was not the right fit for me, but the reason they were seeking me out was because of my dyslexia and ADHD. That I was the only person who could do this job because I could see the big picture and the little details all at once. I could simply. Everything that they were asking people to simplify. And I came up with it within five minutes. That's unbelievable. And not everybody can do that. And that's the kinds of things that I'm trying to help people point out is, you know, there are, there are things that are under your nose that you don't necessarily know that you're really good at, but let's find them. Let's help build your confidence in that. 

I think the key of, of, of explaining to people, you know, again, I always go back to this analogy. It’s eating the elephant, one bite at a time, right? You don't need to change your entire world. Your entire world will change as you start changing things slowly. Right. 

Yeah. It's small changes every day. And the thing is, that's what makes it sustainable because if you, if you're taking something and bake, bite-size pieces of it, you're not looking at everything all at once and I think that that's, what's so overwhelming for someone who has ADHD is they have this analysis paralysis. There's too many decisions. There's too many steps. There's too many things to go and I'm not, I'm not asking anybody to do that. It's like, can we just take this one step in front of you? How does this feel? Let's analyze it. How does it. How does this go moving forward? Is this something we can continue? You know, it's just, it takes a lot of steps. And I think that people who are looking for support and looking for, help me to understand that this is a whole picture; that this isn't something that's a quick fix and we shouldn't look at it as a quick fix. Because it, you didn't even develop, you know? Yes. In some ways you develop different skills of ADHD differently throughout your lifetime, but it's always been there, but that doesn't mean that it has to be fixed, quote unquote the same way. 

Yup. A hundred percent. How can people find you? 

Sure. So I am my website. As you mentioned, I spelled Cape C a P E capable consulting.com. Or How can people find you? https://www.capeableconsulting.com  @iamcapeable on INSTA @CapeAbleConsultingLLC on Facebook and Cape-Able Consulting LLC on LinkedIN 

Awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. We really do appreciate it. Sorry to you and my audience if I slurred or spit, well, you can't see me spitting all over the keyboard, but that is I've been drooling all morning. So looking forward to having you back at some point, and that was great guys. Thanks for listening. I appreciate it. It means a lot to me. It means a lot to the audience. You guys are the reason that we have this podcast, so that we'll keep doing it. So please reach out if you have any guests, you'd like to see, we would love to know who they are and tell us about them and we'll get them on the podcast just like we did here with Alex guys. Thank you for listening. My name is Peter Shankman. We will see you next week again, on Faster Than Normal. Have a wonderful day!

 

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Aug 11, 2021

I want to thank you for listening and for subscribing to Faster Than Normal! I also want to tell you that if you’re listening to this one, you probably listened to other episodes as well. Because of you all, we are the number one ADHD podcast on the internet!! And if you like us, you can sponsor an episode! Head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ It is a lot cheaper than you think. You'll reach... about 25k to 30,000 people in an episode and get your name out there, get your brand out there, your company out there, or just say thanks for all the interviews! We’ve brought you over 230 interviews of CEOs, celebrities, musicians, all kinds of rock stars all around the world from Tony Robbins, Seth Godin, Keith Krach from DocuSign, Danny Meyer, we've had Rachel Cotton, we've had  the band Shinedown, right? Tons and tons of interviews, and we keep bringing in new ones every week so head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ make it yours, we'd love to have you, thanks so much for listening!  Now to this week's episode, we hope you enjoy it!

——

Aubrey Hirsch is the author of Why We Never Talk About Sugar, a short story collection. Her stories, essays and comics have appeared in The New York Times, Vox, The Nib, American Short Fiction, Black Warrior Review, and elsewhere. You can learn more about her at www.aubreyhirsch.com or follow her on twitter @aubreyhirsch.  Today we’re talking with Aubrey about Imposter syndrome, embracing criticism, and enduring the word “no”, amongst other sweetnesses of the creative life. This is a goody, enjoy! 

——

In this episode Peter and Aubrey discuss:    

2:14 - Intro and welcome Aubrey Hirsch!!

3:35 - Tell us about growing up, how you became a writer, and how you learned to embrace hearing the word “no”.

5:40 - On becoming a professional writer.  Ref:  Duotrope

7:40 - One is a number. Oh yes it is! 

8:00 - How long have you been a full-time writer? Ref:  Aimee Bender

9:15 - On how it’s still sort of a “This is how it’s always been done” society. Ref:  “Black Boy” by Richard Wright 

11:03 - On getting over the Sophomore jinx

11:52 - On her teacher Maureen McKeil’s contextualizing rejection and keeping perspective

15:50 - Illustrations on Imposter syndrome 

16:50 - How do you deal with rejection and Imposter syndrome?

19:24 - The story of Peter’s first condo purchase

20:40 - On the battle between yourself- and You yesterday.

22:57 - How do you let yourself enjoy the successes you have achieved?

24:52 - What do you do to shut off, get away and unplug?  

How can people find you?  @AubreyHirsch on Twitter  INSTA and via her website www.aubreyhirsch.com  Her book “Why We Never Talk About Sugar” is OUT NOW!

26:11 - Thank you Aubrey!  Guys, as always, we are here for you and we love what the responses and the notes that we get from you. So please continue to do that, tell us who you want to hear on the podcast, anything at all, we’d love to know.  Leave us a review on any of the places you get your podcasts, and if you can ever, if you ever need our help, I'm www.petershankman.com and you can reach out anytime via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. It really helps when you drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! 

27:13 - Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hi guys. My name is Peter Shankman. I'm the host of Faster Than Normal.  I want to thank you for listening, and I also want to tell you that if you've listened to this one, you probably listened to other episodes as well of Faster Than Normal.  We are the number one ADHD podcast on the internet, and if you like us, you can sponsor an episode.  Head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ It is alot cheaper than you think. You'll reach... God about 25….30,000 people in an episode and get your name out there, get your brand out there, your company out there, or just say, thanks for all the interviews we brought you over 230 interviews of CEOs, celebrities, musicians, all kinds of rock stars all around the world from we've had... God, who have we had...we've had Tony Robbins, Seth Goden, Keith Krach from DocuSign, we've had Rachel Cotton, we've had  the band Shinedown, right? Tons and tons of interviews, and we keep bringing in new ones every week, so head over to https://rally.io/creator/SHANK/ and grab an episode, make it yours, we'd love to have you, thanks for listening.  Here's this week's episode, hope you enjoy it.

Hey guys, Peter Shankman welcome to our episode of Faster Than Normal. I hope you've been enjoying the summer. FTN has taken a bit of a break uh, to really just sort of get our brains back and do some travel and, and, and, uh, get outside and get some fresh air. It feels like about 16 months since we've gotten some fresh air. So it's nice to have done that, but we are thrilled to be back. And so glad that you stuck with us, although you probably just, this probably just auto downloaded and you didn't really have a choice as to whether because I mean, who knows how to unsubscribe to a podcast, it's the most annoying thing on your phone; they just show up and you dismiss them because come on, we don't have time for that. 

 

Anyway, either way. I am still thrilled that you're here and I want to welcome our guest this week. Aubrey Hirsch. Aubrey. I found Aubrey on Twitter because she's actually very, very funny. And she's one of the few people on Twitter who make me laugh without rolling my eyes and that is a feat of, uh, no small regard. So Aubrey is the author of Why We Never Talk About Sugar, which is sort of story collection and she's right. And she is a graphic artist. Her stories, essays and comics have appeared in the New York times, Vox the Nib, American Short Fiction, Black Warrior Review, and elsewhere. She lives online @ www.AubreyHirsch.com She is on the interwebs @AubreyHirsch, and Aubrey is joining us today from California, where hopefully the weather is better, actually. It's getting sunny out. All right. So maybe the weather is the same. Welcome, Aubrey. 

Thank you for taking the. Thanks for having me on.

No. Cool. I was amazed. You responded, you responded so quickly to my, I was, I was DM-ing you? Um, when I, when I say to the DMS that, Hey, I'd love to have new podcasts. I was actually on the Peloton bike and so my endorphins and everything were like sky high, which is why I sent you like seven messages in a row. Each one continued just a little bit more info, as opposed to just sending you one with everything. So apologies for that. Um, but yeah, you responded really, really fast and I really appreciate you taking the time. Um, so w we're going to dive into imposter syndrome. The, the, the, the, the, the, our conversation is going to center on that, and I'm entirely in that.

 

It's going to be some of that. Tell me about your sort of growing up, becoming a writer per se. Writers and, and are right up there with salespeople as, as being, as at learning the word, no at a very early age and learning to deal with it. So, you know, I'm assuming you were in school when you were pitching and you were, you know, getting out of school and you sort of writing, you sort of pitching your stuff and you got, uh, When I was doing it in college, I'm probably a little older than you, I would get at least a courtesy of a reply. Cause we had to do these by mail. Right. We'd have to send out pitching for weeks by a mail. Now it's just email. So, you know, the, when they don't respond to, they say no it's much quicker and in your face and more hurtful. So talk about, uh, what it was like starting out and how you sort of learned to embrace it.

Sure. Yeah, those were definitely some hard learned lessons for me. Um, like you, I started in the mailing era and how I got started is in college. I was actually was a chemistry major for the first couple of years and I took a writing class. Um, as a core requirement and for the final project of that writing class, our professor made everybody send a short story out to a literary magazine. So we had to learn the process. We had to put the cover letter together and we had to put it on an envelope and give it to her. She would look at it, you know, give us our grade and then she put them all in the mail. So I waited patiently as you do when these things happened by meal and definitely expected to know, you know, she told us everyone will get rejected, but that's how you are going to learn to get your first rejection. But, uh, I actually got an acceptance in the mail and was like, oh my God. You know? Well, this was like six months later. So it's like a different school year. And I told my professor and she was like, oh my God, you know, that's never happened before. That's so exciting. And so now of course, I feel like I'm some sort of genius, like who sells their first story that they've ever submitted. Like obviously, um, So, uh, I changed my major. I decided, well, maybe I hadn't better be scientists. I got some advice about, uh, getting an MFA degree, which is a degree I'd never heard of. And then of course I headed into like five solid years of nothing but rejections left and right. Like, not even like a positive thing where you get the rejection slip, but it appears that a human hand has touched it. There's like a little bit of ink on it somewhere. Or like, it's like the corners slightly bent and you're like, oh my God, like someone, uh, put this rejection and thoughtfully. No, it was all just like, we hate you. You have no talent. We wish you were dead. Don't ever talk to us again. It was like that. For many, many years, um, until I kind of figured out how to get like a little bit more strategic with it. And I found, um, do a trope, which aggregates statistics from writers who are accumulating rejections. And they'll tell you about like, Acceptance rates from different magazines and things like that. So I started targeting ones that had really high acceptance rates, figuring it'll just be good to have something in my bio because nobody knows these magazines. Like nobody knows them. All right. They don't know like one small literary magazine from another. Um, so as long as you just have something to say in your bio, I think that's helpful. I also started publishing poems. Um, because they're shorter. And so they take up less room in the magazines and magazines can publish more of them. So I published a couple of those. And then when I had a bio that started to look like maybe I was actually a writer, it became easier to get like generous reads, I think from staff. And then, you know, you can, like, I can remember seriously creating a course called pitching the strategy because that is. I've never. And I think that's probably the science side of you, uh, that, that comes in and looks at this as a, you know, as a, as a, as a, as an experiment, like, all right. My, my thesis statement is this, I'm going to test this.

 

I love that. But you went and looked at who has higher acceptance rates, and then use that. I remember. When I turned 30, uh, as I say, years ago, I wanted to, um, throw a party and I convinced a company, one company to sponsor it. And then on that strength, that one company, I send emails out to 100 different companies and said, I have a number of sponsors on the premise that one was a number and that's what you have to do. Right. And so, so it works. 

That's awesome. It is. 

So how long have you been to, how long have you been writing now and, and calling yourself a writer and, and pitching and getting kind of gets easier. I mean, over time you start to develop the relationships with the editors and things like.

Definitely. Yeah, it gets easier. And people start to like, know you a little bit and you start to have people who ask you for work. Um, which is great. I, that's a good question. I mean, I, I always liked to write when I was little. I think I just, I thought, you know, because in school we, we never read writers who were alive. You know, until I got to college. So I kinda thought like, saying that you want to be a writer was like saying one should be like a blacksmith. Like, it would be fun, but you missed the window, right? Like that's, that's done now. The books have all been written. So you have her find something else to do and no more books to write, sorry, that's it it's over. And then when I was in college and I read like Aimee Bender and so I was like, oh, damn, like, oh, okay. Like chicks do this. Oh, that's cool. And then like, you could do this now and you can do it like, so it sounds like more interesting. And you're talking about like more, um, current topic. Like I know that like, sweet. Uh, so it started in like a more concerted way then, like in college. And then I went right from college to my MFA, which is a funny story also. And then, um, you know, it kind of went on. I think that's one of the problems that you've, you've touched on the problems is that is that we are still very much a that's the way it's always been done type of society.

 

Um, you know, I can list every single book that I was required to read in junior high or high school. And then on a much shorter list, I can, I can remember every single book I was required to read in junior high or high school that actually touched me. Um, you know, and I remember, uh, the, the one that did and still to this day does, was Black Boy by Richard Wright.

And I have probably read that. A dozen times since I had to read it in high school. And, you know, I mean, I love Shakespeare and I read ByroN and things like that. But, but to look at, um, the stuff that we were sort of forced to read it, put, I think every student has, it's very rare to have a student that doesn't get that bad taste in their mouth because they're forced to do it.

Right. And they're forced to do it. People that died 300 years ago. Any words that aren't spoken today? Um, you know, I remember, uh, when I was, I think it was in college when, uh, Bosler, mins, Romeo and Juliet came out with Claire Danes, Claire Danes, who now is the mother of my daughter's school friend, which is just weird shit because she's two and nothing else, but I'm in my head but you know, I remember watching that movie and hearing Leonardo DiCaprio speak in, in Shakespearian. Okay. Okay. Now it makes sense, right? Because when you're reading something by a 400 year old dead guy, everyone in there, no matter how, you know, Juliette was 13 by, she sounds like a 400 year old dead woman and so it takes that, you know, you have to sort of look, I don't think we're smart enough at that age to sort of put that into perspective. So, so you have been doing this for years and let's, let's move on. Let's talk about the concept of rejection because you said, yeah, I got my first hit and then nothing for fighting.

 

I mean, that's actually, I went out on my own for the same reason. My first job with America Online was fun. And when I got laid off from there, I got my second job, assuming it would be fun. And every job after that sucked and like, that's okay; you, you experienced the, not the norm to begin. So that knocks you around a bit because you're like, wait, this is supposed to be easy.

 

It was easy. The first. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely did have the, the very, very, very deep seated fear that like, oh, maybe I just only had that one bad story in me. Like, did I, did I peak? Did I write my one good story when I was 19? And then that's it. That's all I got. I got nothing. Um, and that, that was hard, you know, it didn't feel good, obviously. Luckily for me, I had a very, very good undergrad professor Maureen McKeil a science fiction writer. She's the one who had us do that final project to send out a story. And because she wanted to get out in front of it and insulate us from the terrible feelings of rejection, she put it into perspective. In a way that when I was teaching, it was like my only goal as a professor was to do that same, give my students that same gift of like contextualizing the rejection to say, this is not personal, this is not a comment on your talent, this is not a prediction of the future. This is one particular reader on one particular day. And that one particular magazine took a pass. You know, it's not that deep and you shouldn't take it like it is. That was incredibly helpful for me. And I think it allowed me to like kind of power through all those years. And I also think those years are really important too, because when I wrote that first story, I didn't have any foundational fiction writing education. I was just. Writing it, you know, I was just writing a thing that was in my brain and I put it on the paper. Right. Then I had the unfortunate experience of getting a lot of creative writing education.

That were like you no, no, no, no. Showed on towel. Like, no, no, no. Not with that. You know, like this is too fast, this is too slow. Um, and also this like constant. Forcing into us of like the quiet domestic realism of the stories that you read in graduate school. Right. Of like the, the man at the bar smoking and like the, the guy in the unhappy marriage, uh, at home breaks his glasses. And that's the huge, like pivotal moment of the story, like the broken whiskey glass, you know, or whatever the thing is. And that was just not, I think what I was supposed to be writing, but I was trying, and it was not good. So it wasn't until after graduate school, when I kind of like. She was able to shake that off and no longer had to give my manuscripts to 10 other students who were in the same class and think about, you know, what they were going to say. It's like, you can almost run the workshop in your head and you're writing to those people. I was just writing it, you know, for myself that I kind of rediscovered the kinds of things that I wanted to write about. And that was when I started getting published. Freer. I mean, a lot of what I remember. 

Uh, you know, when I first started, cause I have, I have a journalism background as well, I mean, I, I went to BU as a Journalism major, and I remember that a lot of what I was dealing with at the time was writing things in a very specific way that they wanted to see them, even if it didn't feel right. And when it didn't feel right, I had a really hard time getting it on paper. Um, I have my editors now for all of my books and they're like, We we know exactly what you want to say, we just need to clean it up a little bit, but you know, how did you, how did you come to the point where you just got it down? I'm like, I literally just, I, I booked a flight somewhere, sat down for eight hours and rode, I vomited out for eight hours and here's, here's the result. Um, but yeah, you, you, you are, you're taught, I think the same thing also as a kid in like math class. Showing my work was always horrible, but I was never going to show you my work, but I could get the right answer in my head and that should be worth something that's going to, if I ever start an education, like a cult, it's going to be even not having to show your work; that's something I think, um, talk for a second. So, so, you know, getting, and I'm sure you still get rejected from time to time, right? We all, we all have that, um, you know, going after a speaking gig, someone else gets it. I wanted it, whatever. So the teacher gave you that brilliant, brilliant insight, the concept of not taking it personally. And I wish someone had told me that the same way. I mean, it's still, uh, it still stings, right? It doesn't sing anywhere near as much. And I've worked really, really hard. And I, you know, with a wonderful therapist for like 20 something years, I'm about nine you're saying, but the concept of imposter syndrome is all too real no matter what you do, it is an existing thing. It, it exists. It's there. Um, It is. I find it's very easy. Uh, when it comes to imposter syndrome to go down a spiral where, you know, you start with one thing and then you happen to notice another thing and you happen to all of a sudden you've, you know, it's like when you see a red car and then you see 50 red cars, all of a sudden you've seen every single, uh, insult or, or, or response to a tweet or whatever. Um, you haven't seen any of the positive ones because you're not looking for them because you're so now focused. On the negatives and assuming you're the absolute worst person in the world. Right. So, and, and, and for guys, you got to see what, what, what, what Aubrey tweeted? Um, a couple of, I guess we, couple weeks ago it was from money Python. It was the, uh, oh, it's just a flesh wound. It's the, guy's getting his legs cut off in his arms, cut off. It's brilliant. And it's exactly that it is how you feel, but you get enough of those slush wounds and, and you're gonna die. Right. And so what do we, so what have you learned. That you can share with the audience in the world? How do you deal with it? Because you know, as talented as you are sometimes, we are not going to please everyone. Definitely. 

 

I mean, well, like, first of all, for clarity, I definitely want to say it still feels terrible, you know, it's, it's always painful. It doesn't feel good. And I think especially now, like in the age of Twitter, you're on there for five minutes, get consumed with professional jealousy. You know, it's like here here's, everyone's like publisher's marketplace screenshots and oh, look, I'm an indie bestseller. And like, oh look, I'm a finalist for this award that you have never even heard of. And like, can't wait to go into my writing residency. Yeah. You know, whatever fancy it's, it's really hard. It's just, it's all in your face all the time. And of course not enough of us are talking about. The rejections alongside of those things. Like, it's not like here's my one tweet about my birthright writing residency, and here's my 15 tweets about the ones that rejected me for all these years. And some people do. And I always love seeing that, but you know, we have to like, keep that in mind for context also, I think like it's helpful to. I always think about the most insidious part of imposter syndrome being the kind of like moving goalpost. I did a panel at AWP one year about imposter syndrome and one of the questions they asked us is like, when did you start to feel like you belonged there? And I was like, um, I'm still waiting. I don't know. I remember going, I remember going there like as a grad student and being like, well, I, you know, I've only published one thing, so obviously I don't want it. Then once I'd published many things, it was like, okay. I post many things, but like, I, I don't have a book. I mean, you got to have a book. Right. And then I had a book and it was like, well, it's short stories. It's not a novel, you know, I haven't published a novel, so I don't really go on here. It's like, I have a teaching guide, but it's not tenure track. It's like, well, okay. I have a tenure track job, but you know, I'm not like the fit and you can't, you'll never get it. Like, it's always, the next thing is. I'm going to make you feel secure in your identity, your professional identity. And I think like the sooner that you can come around to that idea that it's not real, the easier it is to kind of live in the feeling of your professional identity that you have now. Um, and that kind of like makes me feel more comfortable.

That’s a brilliant way to think about it. It was funny when I sold my last company. Um, I've never told this story before, and I can tell you because you'll, you'll appreciate that reference. Um, I sold my company around the same time that someone, the person who owned media bistro sold hers. Um, and we all know who that is. Lovely, lovely person invited me. I had just sold my company and it was about a year later and I had just bought my apartment and we were in touch and she invited me over to her house or her apartment in the city was she had just bought as well. And I was all excited cause I had this, I bought this two bedroom condo and man in New York city a two bedroom condo means you've made it! And I walked in and she had bought a floor. And the top floor and it had roof access and she's like, oh, you gotta look at the outdoor shower… and when I got home I remember walking in and saying I hate this fucking apartment and just three hours ago it was the greatest purchase of my life. Yeah. And that is literally what we do. And, and, you know, I had someone, a friend of mine said, dude, there's always gonna be a bigger, yeah. He goes, where is the apartment you're in now bigger than the one you're in 10 years ago. He's like, start there, you know? 

 

And that's, that's a good way to think of it, but you're right. There's always going to be someone. And, and what you mentioned about seeing everything online, of course, no, one's going to post their crap days. 

I, you know, I'm training for a big iron man triathlon right now. And I post, you know, after every run, I, I post a great run with a great times as opposed, to the eight fucking two times I used to even stayed in bed all day. You know, we don't share that stuff. So I think that the battle has to be between you, and you yesterday. Between you and everyone else. 

Yeah. I think that's a great way to look at it. And I also think we describe other of people's successes to like their talent and hard work.And we just, we describe our own successes to like a lucky break or like a weird, like, I remember when I would always read Modern Love in the New York Times and be like, oh my gosh. And I would see people Facebook status, like. I would be like, oh my God, I'd be like consumed with like jealousy and burning inside. And then I published a column in Modern Love and I felt very much like, oh man, I don't know how I snuck in there! Haha! Like, like no, and people would be like, oh my God, I'm so jealous. And I'm like, really? It's like, it was nothing, you know, it was just like a weird, random, like lottery draw. Right. But of course, when it's you, it feels like that when it's everyone else, it doesn't feel like that that's phenomenal.

I mean, the story that I tell to everyone is every morning I wake up and I'm sure that today's gonna be the day that the New York Times has a front page story on how I'm such a fraud. And it's all love every day when they don't well obvious, obviously, because I'm not important enough because you know, time to do a front page story. It is literally every single day. And, and, and somehow we wake up and we put on the face and we, we, we, you know, Get dressed and we get out there and we do it again. But yeah, it is, it is brutal, um, in that regard because it is very, I think that the more success you have, the easier it is for imposter syndrome to reel its rear its head, because you just get there, the more success you have, the more you're surrounded by other successful people. And if you're believing that yours is the only one who's fake and everyone else is real, it's constantly become, why are they letting me to this club?

 

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And there's always going to be the thing that's going to, you know, prove it to yourself. And then when you achieve that thing, the next thing is just right there. Just out of reach. So talk to me to two more questions. Talk to me. Number one about how do you let yourself enjoy the successes?

 

Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. That's that's tough one. I don't know. I mean, I definitely do. I definitely do enjoy them. You know, like whenever I have a piece go live, I get excited. It feels really good. You know, like I tweet it and then I, I like very excited to watch my notification. To get that sweet, sweet internet validation that we all need. Um, you know, I have gotten to a place like where I really truly hate to say this out loud because I sound like an asshole, but where I can kind of like see it for its own thing and feel good about having made it, you know, like all be like- I'm proud of myself because I made this thing and it looks really nice or like, oh, my drawing skills are getting better or like I'm getting faster. You know, that's the thing I've been working hard on too. It's like making a comic in a shorter amount of time and having the quality of it. And it's kinda, it's like a nice place to be where you can get like a little bit and, you know, don't worry. Like I still definitely run on Twitter likes, but I have like a little bit of, uh, internal validation happening.

 

That's phenomenal answer. 

 

You know, it's the ones that I post that I don't, that I think are just whatever that wind up getting, you know, 15,000 likes. And then it's the ones that I really worked hard on to fight you. People are idiots, this is gold all the time. Totally. You can't predict it. Like there'll be a comic 30 hours making it and like, I've researched it like crazy and I think it's like so good and brilliant. And it's like 18 likes and two stars and then it's like you post a selfie in the car where the light is really good and it's like 3000 likes. You're like, what the fuck? What are we doing here? 

Last question I want to ask you; I want to respect your time. Um, tell me about. What you do to shut down? What do you do to shut off? Where do you go? How do you get away? Cause it's it's it does seem like us like me like that. You're you're, you know, you live online. So when you shut down, when you shut off, where do you go? What do you do? How do you make that a part of it? 

 

Hm. Um, yeah, that's a good question. Well, I don't have a ton of time to do that because I have two small children and as I'm sure, you know, there's still childcare crisis going on. Um, but I do like, I'll play like dumb games on my cell phone just to kind of like spend some time associating or I will, um, binge watch, terrible television. I have watched. I'm not too proud to say that I have watched two full seasons of Bachelor in Paradise from beginning to end, the whole thing I've watched. Um, yeah, it's really not. It's really not. Or like, I'll watch a movie that I've already seen before, you know, that's just like a comfortable place to be. And I know that I know exactly what it's going to do to me emotionally. It's not going to, there's no surprises there. You know, I can just like fold laundry and like, let that kind of wash over me. 

Very cool. This has been a lot of fun. I really appreciate you taking the time.. 

 

Guys talking to her Aubrey Hirsch. She's the author of Why We Never Talk About Sugar, a short story collection. Uh, you can find her at www.AubreyHirsch.com and she's on Twitter where I found her @AubreyHirsch  She's a very quick responder, I'll give her that already. Thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. This was wonderful.

 

Thanks so much for having me. Next time you have something to promote. You have a story out. We'd love to hear. Awesome.

 

Guys is always Faster Than Normal. If you like what you heard, we'd love it if you left us a review, everyone does, you should too. You don't want to be the one person who hasn’t done it, but you can find us on www.FasterThanNormal.com you can find a single podcast. You can find us on Spotify on Amazon. You can even find us on Alexa. You can literally say Alexa, play fasterthannormal.. Crap. My Alexa is just totally gonna play that now click on the.. cancel!@ but it'll do it. And any way you want. And if you have a guest that you think would be as cool as Aubrey, let us know, you can send me an email. Peter@shaman.com DM @fasterThanNormal or @petershankman and we will get that guest on the air. Thank you so much for listening. Our producer is Steven Byrom. He is awesome. We love him. [He loves We too even though this transcript may not be 1million percent perfect]. Have a wonderful day. We'll see you next week, ADHD, and all neurodiversity are gifts, they are not a curse keep reminding yourself of that! Talk soon.

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Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

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