JeffThe420Chef, author of The 420 Gourmet: The Art of Elevated Cannabis Cuisine is the creator of “Tasteless" canna-butter and canna-oils and the inventor of Culinary Cannabis, cannabis flower that mimics the smell and taste of familiar herbs and spices like oregano, rosemary, thyme and cinnamon. Using a secret process rooted in molecular gastronomy, Chef Jeff has been able to create cannabis ingredients that are simple to use and precisely dosed. 

Dubbed “The Julia Child of Weed” by The Daily Beast, and a legendary cannabis chef by Cheddar, JeffThe420Chef, works with cannabis in ways that no other cannabis chef in the world does. He has been redefining the cannabis consumption experience since 2012 with a mission “to make cooking with cannabis simple and easy for everyone and to bring the cannabis consumption experience into the mainstream”. In 2014, he pioneered "layered micro-dosing”, and created the popular "THC/CBD Calculator" app to help home cooks and chefs determine the approximate THC and CBD dosage of the edibles they make. Jeff is also a culinary instructor and teaches a series of classes called "The Art of Cooking with Cannabis" in medical and recreational states. The goal of his class is to help people understand the value of both cannabis and hemp as an ingredient, the power of THC and CBD as ingredients, how to gauge and manage the potency of edibles, and how to dose those edibles properly. JeffThe420Chef and his recipes are continuously featured in numerous high profile publications including the High Times, Cheddar TV, MerryJane, Emerald Magazine, The Forward, Culture Magazine and Edibles Magazine. He has also been featured on TruTV with Margaret Cho, Bakeout.tv, Vice, Business Insider, WeedmapsTV (soon to be released), Elite Daily, The Daily Beast, The Boston Globe The New York Daily News, The Huffington Post, the San Francisco Chronicle and more... I learned a LOT! I hope you do too- enjoy!

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***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Jeff Danzer discuss:

   :42  -  Intro and welcome Jeff

3:29  -  How did this become something you wanted to pursue? 

5:25  -  On becoming a more accomplished chef/moving forward while learning to create tastes people like

7:22  -  On being ADHD and achieving acclaim & success. What type of systems did you put into place to partake and not fly off the rails? 

9:38  -  On scheduling while working on all different projects, keeping it all in line

10:45  -  On cannabis, and how it changed your relationship with ADHD

11:44 -  On certain situations where it made sense to work while high, and what to do when it’s time hyperfocus

12:53  -  On feeling in control of a situation and taking care of business as far as negotiating, doing what needs to be done, etc.

14:45  -  On advising people who might be fearful of partaking in either cannabis or hemp in the hopes of it helping with their ADHD

17:56  -  How can people find you?  Website: https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/  @JeffThe420Chef on Twitter  INSTA and a bunch of goodness on his YouTube page HERE   

18:56  -  Thank you Chef Jeff!  https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/ And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

19:41-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hi everyone, Peter Shankman here. Welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. I hope you're having a wonderful Wednesday wherever you happen to be.  It is in fact, Wednesday here as well when we are recording this and it is a gorgeous day in New York City, a beautiful, beautiful day, uh, more and more people are getting vaccinated and pretty soon, we will all be able to go outside and start licking things again, as if there was no other care in the world.  Hope you’re staying safe. We’ve got a fun guest today who is going to talk to us about, well, I'm gonna let him tell you what we're going to talk about, but needless to say that it's going to be a lot of fun and it might make you change how you think of, well, cannabis and weed and who the hell knows. Let's just see. Jeff Danzer, otherwise known as https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/ He's the author of the https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/cookbook The Art of Elevated Cannabis Cuisine, is a creative tasteless canna butter and canna oils, and the inventor of culinary cannabis. Cannabis flower that mimics the smell and taste of familiar herbs and spices like oregano, rosemary, thyme and cinnamon using a secret process rooted in molecular gastronomy, which I've been to molecular gastronomy restaurants and  oh my God, that's so much fun. Jeff, Chef Jeff has been able to create cannabis ingredients that are simple to use and precisely dosed.  He's been dubbed the Julia Child of weed, by The Daily Beast and a legendary cannabis chef by cheddar Jeff.  The 420 Chef works with cannabis in ways that no other cannabis chef in the world does.  He's been redefining the cannabis consumption experience in 2012, with a mission to make cooking with cannabis simple and easy for everyone, and to bring the cannabis consumption experience into the mainstream.  He's pioneered something called Layered Microdosing, created the popular https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/calculator  It's an app that helps home cooks and chefs determine exactly how much to put into the edibles they make. He's a culinary instructor, he teaches a series of classes called... what else? The Art of Cooking with Cannabis in medical and recreational States. Jeff, you've been all over the place you've been mentioned in countless media outlets.  I am so thrilled that you took the time to be on the podcast.   Thanks so much, man. 

Thank you so much for having me. I love what you're doing and your podcast is pretty awesome. So you've got a fan on this side as well. 

Thank you. So, you know, over, over time, I've heard a lot of, we've had several guests on the podcast who swear that cannabis and edibles and things like that have really changed how they handle their ADHD and how they handle their ADD.  Um, it has, you know, it has benefited them in so many ways. Um, we're really sort of entering a new mindset in terms of cannabis and in terms of weed and pot and all that, uh, you know, especially in New York where, where last week we just passed a law to make it legal. So, you know, talk to us, first of all, but how'd you, how'd you get involved in this?  How, how did this become a thing that you wanted to pursue and then, and then we'll move into, uh, what it can do? 

Yes. I mean, I say, you know, uh, like many people, I also, um, have ADHD. I don't say I suffer with it because it's literally helped me get to exactly where I am today. Um, but I did, you know, way back in the day I used to smoke weed and it would totally calm me down and focus me.  Um, I didn't have to take any more Adderall, you know, I was literally able to focus with cannabis because it brought me into that state that I needed to, um, and it works for a lot of people in the same ways. And I was really just smoking for a very long time until, um, about 2010, um, a family member was diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor, and, uh, another person, um, one of my best friend's mothers was diagnosed with terminal ovarian cancer, and they both wanted to medicate with cannabis, but didn't want to smoke and wanted edibles. And at that time I was in the fashion industry, but I was always a really good cook and chef or so they say, and these people had asked me if I could maybe make them some infused, um, cookies or brownies or whatever, just so they could medicate with cannabis, you know, to make life a little easier, you know, towards the end of their journey here. And, um, first thing I did was go back to my college days and I made 'em brownies and cookies and they tasted terrible. Uh, they, in both of them said, well, it works, but it doesn't taste right. So, you know, thanks, but no thanks. Yeah. You know, it's like, they just hated the taste of the weed in their food. So basically I was challenged to take out the taste of the cannabis from the, um, uh, from the edibles.

Interesting. So, so... you had a whole goal of, okay. I know how to cook now. I'm going to make it taste like something that people would actually want. 

Right. You know, so, you know, it took me a long time, took me about 18 months to figure it out, and, uh, unfortunately neither of them really got to experience it, you know, they got to experience along the way, you know, uh, how far I had gotten, but at the point where I actually finally figured out how to remove the taste from my edibles, unfortunately they were not able to, uh, you know, to enjoy it. Um, but since then many other people have, and I cooked for a lot of sick people.  Um, that's where it really started this. And you know the thing that I realized that people that are seriously ill, terminally ill, is that, you know, they want to enjoy as much of life as possible, not knowing that they're medicating. And a big part of it was, you know, if you're going to taste the weed in your food, they know you're medicating when you're eating and that just makes it even worse.  So if you're already nauseous and feeling really bad, you know, from their medications or the chemo or whatever else that you're getting, the last thing you want to do is put something in your mouth, you know, it's a try to eat, that's going to make you feel even sicker. So, you know, we try to make, you know, great tasting food, that they didn't, they didn't have to eat a lot of that would, you know, make them feel good, maybe increase their appetite a bit. And, um, Uh, yeah, get them to that point where maybe they might have something that they would enjoy. So, um, like I said, it took me about 18 months to get to that place. I finally figured out how to do it, and from there on, um, just, I mean, uh, I met with a guy from The Daily Beast, gave him one of my cupcakes... a week and a half later an article came out, said “meet the Julia Child of Weed.” Newsweek did…. Newsweek did like a, I think a four-page thing on me in their Weed 2.0 Edition, and uh, things just skyrocketed from there, to the point where I literally left my fashion career in New York, closed down my business and moved to California to become a cannabis chef.  And in the interim, um, I got a book deal with Harper Collins to write The 420 Gourmet. And I had been approached by alot of really well known chefs out there through Facebook, because at the time that's all we really had to communicate and they're like, listen, can you teach me how to do what you do?  And I said, oh, sure, you know, but you would have to teach me some skills in return. I didn't charge them any money for it, but I asked for skills and before I knew it, I became an award-winning cannabis chef. And then the rest is history. 

Now, you're ADHD. So talk to us, talk to us about how you've managed to achieve this level of success.  Uh, success and still be ADHD. Is it, is it strict from cannabis or, you know, what, what sort of systems we put into place to live your life and do it in such a way that you're, you're not flying off the rails? 

Well, the crazy thing is that I was always all over the place with everything that I did, but, you know, I came up with this mission way back when, when I started... to make the cannabis consumption experience, simple and easy for everyone, and everything that I do, falls within that, but there's many different things that I could do. So instead of having to focus just on one thing, I was able to focus on the cookbook and I was able to do classes and focus on those. I was able to take small pieces and actually create little businesses around these small pieces.  So when we have catering, we have, um, education, we have, you know, the cookbook. We have, um, obviously all the PR stuff that I do out there, we have a new company called https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/scarborough-fair-market which as you mentioned earlier, we have cannabis, that's culinary cannabis, which mimics the order and tastes of herbs like oregano basil, thyme, cinnamon and, etc. Now we're doing the same thing with hemp, so I've been able to take all of that and create little, um, I guess, spinning a silos. And each one of those only takes a small chunk of my time every day. So I'm able to do all these different things that I enjoy and that I can focus on for a very short period of time before I move on to the next thing.  And that's always been, my problem is that, you know, I... I've, I can focus on something for a short period of time, but I can't focus on it for a long period of time. I could only imagine being ADHD, how difficult it was to write that cookbook, right? But again, I broke up the cookbook into different parts.  First, I did the recipes, then I explained, you know, on the head notes, what they were.  But then I went to a whole new, uh, version of it where I was telling you how many milligrams are in each serving of everything that you make within that cookbook. It was a whole different project that I was then able to incorporate into that cookbook. So for me, being able to take everything in small little pieces and then sew them together to meet that mission of making cooking the cannabis for the cannabis consumption experience, simple and easy for everyone was how I did it and how I used my ADHD to create all this. 

Did your schedule at all? I mean, was everything did you have to schedule the times like, OK, from 9-10 I'm going to be working on this aspect from 10 to 11 we're working on dosage from the, you know, how did you put that together? 

Yeah, loosely and I still do it that way, you know? So like, you know, I know that, you know, for example, in the mornings I will work from full. I started around 4am, 4 or 5am, so for 4 or 5am, I answer my emails, do whatever I can get all this stuff out of the way. And yeah, it's done. Then all of a sudden I'm like, okay, I have a dinner party coming up. So I've got, you know, an hour or two to start working on the dinner party, get those emails out of the way, get my list together, get my shopping list together. And then on to my next thing, you know, the next thing might be, you know, with the culinary cannabis, working on packaging, then we'll, you know, I'll call my packaging guys. I'll get my guys and say, Hey, let's do this. You know? And it's a whole different thing. We have a website business, um, you know, that's running on one side selling the culinary hemp now, uh, we have, I mean, all these different businesses and I've got some great people, you know, they're helping me, you know, spearhead this, but literally I'm able to do everything by taking my time and maximizing it in chunks.  So I do schedule, but I would say I loosely schedule because I know that sometimes I go over, sometimes I go under. 

How has cannabis in, in a few words, how has it changed your relationship with ADHD? 

Uh, I think it's calmed me down a lot. I will tell you that when I wrote my book, um, I was bong hitting on a constant basis and I started doing edibles just because it allowed me to just sit there and focus on what I was supposed to do. Um, but on the other side of it, you know, some of this stuff I really didn't want to be high when I was writing, for example, you know, the headnotes was fine, but when you're talking about a recipe, you really need to be focused on that recipe, and I wanted to make sure that I had all, everything, all the ingredients and all of the, um, the measurements, etc, needed to be precise, you know, so to do that, you know, when you're cooking, especially the equivalent weight, it's easy to just throw it over to this and throw a little bit of that, and, but in order to really be able to, um, uh, to focus on what actually the actual ingredients were, that's when I really didn't smoke or,,,, but I didn't have cannabis. 

I find it interesting in the respect that, you know, what was it, uh, what did Hemingway say? Write drunk, edit sober?  Yeah, that's very true, so the same principle, the same premise.  Um, tell me about, uh, situations where, you know, it's not necessarily prudent to be working while high, right? And what is, what happens when you need to focus or you need to do something about your ADHD?  Uh, you know, you can't. A microdose, do you can't, you can't eat an edible or something like that because you need to be always there.

Wait, you definitely don't want to be operating, um, any equipment or heavy machinery machinery, you know, that's for sure. Yeah. I also feel that, you know, if you really need to be engaged, um, a little bit, a little bit of cannabis  is actually a really good thing, you know, for me when I have business meetings and stuff, and I really need to be engaged a lot more on when I've taken an edible about an hour before my business meeting, and I can literally sit there and engage and my personality. It just, I think it, it, it almost like blossoms more when I don't have, when I, you know, when I don't have cannabis in my system, you know what? I haven't had an edible or smoke. Um, I'm a lot more tense. 

And you feel like, you feel like you feel like you're in control, you feel like you're not like you can go in and negotiate or do whatever it is you have to do?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I feel like I'm, I'm in a lot more control as a matter of fact, let's say an interesting story. When we, uh, we, we got our license to open up one of the first cannabis edibles restaurants in West Hollywood. And, um, part of that process was also going up in front of the business license commission and speaking on behalf of the other, uh, lounges and restaurants that, um, wanted to open up and giving them, you know, the prompts and actually supporting them, and I remember right before one of these meetings, I was testing some of my culinary cannabis and I made a, um, uh, a dish called Stuffed Shells. Now I had had that, those stuffed shells at around three o'clock in the afternoon. And the BLC meeting was at 6:00 PM. I get there at 6:00 PM and I am flying. I mean, I was super high, I didn’t realize how potent this this edible was, I mean, that's actually one of the more potency tests. And I was like, Oh my God, like I should be done with this, but I just kept getting higher and higher. And all of a sudden they call me up to speak on behalf of this company. And, you know, thank thankfully, you know, I had written out my notes on my phone, so at least I had something to look at, but I literally looked at my phone, glanced at the notes, put my phone down and then just spoke on behalf of this company to the point where everybody who is in the audience, listening, you know, like in the, I guess they call it the, um, the gallery or whatever, just started clapping because it was that intense and passionate. It just came straight out. And like, as I walked back, my business partners, from the lounge were like “damn, that was crazy, I hope you do that for us.”  And I was like, dude, that was the culinary cannabis. So I mean, it definitely helps for me, you know, it definitely helps, you know, in certain business settings, other ones, you know, as when I'm creating, I love being high, right. But when I'm doing a dinner party for people, I'm not. 

What do you say, um, to someone who, uh, has maybe never tried or has tried pot once, like in college and, and has heard from people though, that it can benefit ADHD, , or you know, let me, let me rephrase that. What do you say to me….. who is someone who has tried pot like once or twice in his life and has never has never thought about it as a way to manage or control my ADHD?  Um, you know, there's a part of me that's a little scared to do it, right? How does, how does one start in that regard? 

Well, for starters, cannabis today is very different than it was back in the day. Right. So I've been smoking cannabis for God 44 years. That's a long time. I'm 58 years old. 

Yeah I was going to say, I assume you're not like 45, right?

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm actually 58, and although people think I'm a lot younger, cause I guess my, my energy is a bit younger. I blame that on the ADHD too, which is great. Um, but you know, at the end of the day I've been at this for a long time. It's different today. And there are a lot of, uh, we'll be called canni-curious people out there that either like yourself had tried it once or twice back in the day, and they're maybe afraid of it.  Now we're learning to what does he know with all the fuss is about now and they want to check it out. They may want to check out hemp CBD, but you know, they still want to feel what a high feels like, etc. What I would say is this, first of all, make sure you get clean cannabis from somebody. Also, you should try both, um, smoking and or vaping and also edibles, cause those are two different feelings and no matter what you do start very, very low and go very, very slow. What does that mean? So if it comes down to an edible, a low-dose edible, is about two and a half milligrams of THC. Most people who are new to this, they'll feel two and a half milligrams of THC, but it's going to feel like they maybe had half a glass of wine.  If you want to feel like you had more than half a glass of wine, a five milligram edible is probably the most that I would suggest for somebody just starting out. And that'll probably make you feel like you’ve had  about a glass. to a glass and a half, depending on how your body processes it.  Some people have five milligrams and they're like, Oh man, this is too much, so that's why I say start with two and a half, but you know, if you want to go higher, you can. Um, I never take anybody above 10 at our dinner parties, unless they've proven that they're what they called a decca-doser. So people are just starting out just a very low and very slow when it comes to smoking.  If you're going to smoke something to make sure you're getting clean cannabis from a legal dispensary, and I would only do one hit. And see how that makes you feel then about five minutes. So it's got a quick onset time. Something else you should know with edibles is that with the exception of the culinary cannabis, that we're now getting ready to put out there into the market, most edibles take about two hours to kick in.  So you can have a gummy or you can have a bite of a cookie and be like, Oh, this tastes good. If I'm not feeling anything, I'll try more. Don't do it. Wait two hours and see how you feel. You know, it's one of the biggest problems people have is like, Oh, I eat the whole cookie. Cause I didn't feel anything. And then all of a sudden, two hours later they're flying kite.  

You know, I've heard stories, you know, 

I always say go low. Yeah. So you've got to really go low. You have to abide by the rules until you understand what it's all about, how it makes you feel. But two and a half milligrams, you know, a bite of a cookie or, you know, a half of a gummy bear or something like that, you know, that's a five milligram, you know, make sure you know the dosage and get it from a legal, reputable dispensary. 

 Amazing. Amazing. What cool stuff. How can people find you, Jeff? What, where can they go? 

Well,it’s  https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/ anywhere you look.  So it’s https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/ that's our website, um, https://www.instagram.com/jeffthe420chef/?hl=en on Instagram, if you want to see all the fun stuff we're creating. Um, then we have https://twitter.com/jeffthe420chef?lang=en  for some, you know, some of my thoughts and comments and stuff, um, that you can reach out to me through  https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/  or you can also reach out to me through a DM’ing on Instagram. Um, so just, you know, and also https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4c5MriI1vcHd45S5O2ntbA, we have a really great YouTube channel, right? Teach people how to do things at home. Do-it-yourself became really big this past year. And this has increased five fold this year, our, in our online business, um, where we actually sell products having to do with cooking with cannabis, um, that business has increased five fold.  Um, my classesI do virtual classes, those have increased scale tremendously because people want to learn how to do things in home. And cannabis was an essential business, so they had the weed, but they didn't know how to, you know, how to, how to work with it. So, you know, things like that have been doing really well, and then you can reach me those ways. 

Very cool. Uh, all right guys, this, this was….. eye opening. I learned a lot about this. This is really cool. We're going to have to have you back. We’ll have to do a follow up on this side a couple of months. Most definitely. Guys, you've been  listening to Peter Shankman and https://www.fasterthannormal.com/ um, that was Jeff Danzer with  https://www.jeffthe420chef.com/  who, uh, yeah.Um, Wow. That was pretty cool. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Um, guys, if you like what you’ve heard, drop us a note, let us know. Uh, Jeff came recommended, um, as a guest by someone and, uh, we would love more recommendations. So if you have anyone you think should be on the podcast. Please tell us we would love to have them on as well.  Shoot me an email atwww.petershankman.com   or @petershankman on all the socials. We will see you next week. Keep safe, stay healthy. And remember, your ADHD is a gift, it's not a curse. Thanks for listening, we'll talk to you soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

YK is unique business coach and strategy consultant who focuses on turning around the companies and help them with all round growth. He found his strengths and uniques strengths after working in corporates for 2 decades. He runs unique boutique business coaching and consulting firm called Neostrategy. Based out of India but serving Globally. Today we talk about his NeoPlanner and how he uses his ADHD to bring new and unique ideas and solutions to his clients. Enjoy!

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***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & YK discuss:

   :40  -  Intro and welcome YK

1:40  -  Tell us what prompted you to understand your ADHD, learn more about it, and discover ways to help others.

4:00  -  On growing up with ADHD, getting bored easily and your family dealing with those differences

5:14  -  On the corporate working world and learning how you didn’t quite “fit in”.

6:53  -  On taking the leap of faith to start your own business/path –  family pushback/support

9:58  -  On continuing issues w/ ADHD, adjusting to them & other things that might be frustrating

11:26  -  On the importance of a daily routine   

12:45  -  On getting off track and getting back on the right course

13:30  -  On explaining ADHD to neuro-typicals – a process that works 

14:35 – More on how to advise people who don’t understand issues with ADHD- 

15:53  -  On the Neo-Planner and what it is/how it works

18:45  -  How do people find you and learn more and reach out to you?  The best way to find me is in within WhatsApp  He’s on LinkedIN and YouTube His website is: http://neostrategy.in  His number in India is:  91-9949-211399 or via email: YK@neostrategy.in 

19:26  -  Thank you YK! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

19:50-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

TRANSCRIPT: 

Okay, everyone. Another episode of Faster Than Normal is coming your way and it is sponsored by absolutely no one. I don't put ads on most episodes, so you can get the full enjoyment of the episode itself.  Welcome to Faster Than Normal, my name is Peter Shankman. I am happy to have you here, as always today, we are talking about ADHD, about productivity.  We're talking about how everything can be a gift if you just learn to use it well, and we're talking about it with a man who's calling us in from India. His name is Y K. Honestly, his initials for names, he's just like VIN diesel or XXX, Madonna. He is a unique business coach. He's a strategy consultant.  He focused on turning around companies and helping them with all around growth. His strengths come from working with companies internally for over two decades, and he runs a fun little business consulting firm called http://neostrategy.in/neoplanner/http://neostrategy.in/about-yk/ and he sent me something called the http://neostrategy.in/neoplanner/ which is a pretty cool planning and productivity book, we’re gonna talk about that. He comes up with unique ideas to help himself and his clients, that's his super power. Welcome to the podcast YK, good to have you. 

Hi Peter, thank you. 

Glad that glad to have you here, man. So tell us what prompted you to understand your ADHD and, and learn about it, in such a way that you realize you could actually help people with it.

Yeah, sure. This is a topic I'm really, really passionate about. Uh, so this goes back like, uh, probably a decade or even before. Uh, so I always, it's almost like, I would say since childhood. I felt that there is something different and unique about me, but I never could understand what is the difference, OK?  So growing up in the career, I worked in a lot of IT consulting companies, so I was doing all right, but, uh, the more and more, uh, you know, as I was growing up, I could see that there are some things, uh, are unique with me. Like for example, that I'm sitting in a group of people, um, the way everybody thinks versus the way I think used to be different, but then I always used to, uh, you know, uh, shy away, stay back thing, thinking that maybe what I'm thinking is not right. But apparently what were the thoughts that I was getting later? I could come out. Uh, I can see that somebody else is, uh, you know, bringing them as ideas. So I used to get a lot of ideas, thoughts, and try to be unique and even in, from childhood, right?  So I'll give you an example. So the subjects, which are very easy for everyone, I used to get bored. OK things like mathematics physics, which used to create a lot of interest in me. So I used to solve them and they used to get a lot of interest. So I was always curious, there's something wrong with me, or there's something different with me, uh, which is not usually with the group of people.  OK so that is what actually led me into more and more, um, and sometime, while I was in the US for around eight to nine years period, I’d  gone through little bit of a down period. That is when I started reading, I considered different people, like could not get the right answers. Then slowly I realized the whole game that I was going to is dopamine game.  OK, iIt took unfortunately a decade of time for me to figure it out, figure it out on my own. Uh, but then I'm glad that I found that. And, uh, later I realized after I realized that this is what I have and I went on and find my own strengths, what I'm to get. And that's where my journey started.

Let me, let me ask you a question though, because wasn't that, um, you know, growing up, being different and getting bored, didn't that get you in trouble? Weren't you, you know, did you have, like, parents were like, why can't you just focus? Why can't you pay attention? You know, that's a lot of our, a lot of our listeners that talked about that, being a huge problem.

Yeah, that's interesting. But in my case, what happened was, um, I, I, I grew up from a very small village in India. And I was for that village. Uh, you know, I was the, in the school, I was the topper, but then what people never realized was let's say if my capability would have been a hundred percent for the effort I was putting, I was only getting, let's say 80 or 75.  OK, so obviously used to think that there is a, there is a, there is a gap between what I could do versus what I'm able to do that under it underachievement or the missing achievement part was there. But since I was, I came from a very small village. Uh, my standards there itself was very high. So people thought I was a super, uh, uh, I was doing very well, but then inside of me, I knew that I am a lot more capable than than what I was delivering. You see what I'm saying? 

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That does make a lot of sense. So as you, as you grew, and as you became an adult and you started in the, in the, in the corporate world, you know, in, in, in, in getting a job and everything, were you at any point working for a company where you're like, I just don't fit in this doesn't work for me.

Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So that is the pull together, right? So actually this is what, so in United States for around  eight, nine years and the UK who is a UK Australia. And so while I was in the customer facing roles, while I was doing the more of a consulting sales kind of roles, I was doing fine.I was able to feel that I was fitting there, but then around 2010 ish, 10 time, I came back to India and once I came back to India, I was actually, uh, you know, uh, {indistinguishable} refers to do rules,???which are more like, uh, you know, near the more of a things which needs a lot of attention to details. And a lot of, uh, you know, uh, very detailed work, which is not my strength, OK,  I had to struggle a lot. That is when actually I started really, uh, you know, talking a bit, uh, saying that this is not, I'm not, I was, I was totally, every year I started feeling that I was not fitting into the culture, I was not fitting into the kind of work. And one of the other things was, I don't know if this is common with all the people with ADHD type of a brain. Uh, freedom is one of the top notch value systems for me so the more I was growing in the corporate world, the lesser I was getting the freedom, OK, so that combined with the, the misfit of my strengths with, to whatever the work was given and, uh, and the, you know, misalignment of my freedom, and that was completely knocked me off, that is when I actually discover my strengths and they started my own consulting firm called Use Strategy. That's been my happy journey or my real true self, uh, started, uh, coming out.

Makes sense. Um, when you went out on your own, did you receive any pushback? Um, I know that when I started and a lot of people who started realize they just had to do this, uh, if they didn't have a family that was used to that, or, you know, didn't come from an entrepreneurial family, you know, it, it was difficult.  It was, you know, how are you, how are you, what are you going to do? How are you going to survive? This is not what we do. Did you encounter any of that? 

Yeah, yeah, fortunately actually in my situation, it's the other way around because my wife is actually very, very supportive to me and she has seen me very closely and she always wanted me to be happy and she thinks that I have a lot of capabilities, but I never believed in, so honestly, uh, so she was very supportive. And, uh, and at the same time, since I kind of scientifically know about my strengths, I did a good amount of a piloting and experimenting before I jumped in fully, OK, one of my strengths is called strategic. So I used my own strategic in my career transition and I did a lot of pilots, before I actually made some money, uh, you know, I made some money before I took the final decision. So it was like a good, good amount of experimentation I have done. And I got the confidence. Of course I did go through a little bit of anxiety and stress, but from a family point of view, there is a complete support to me, so that was, I was lucky enough in that way.

Makes a lot of sense. 

And actually what I feel, uh, Peter is that, uh, I... I feel doing this is much easier for me now instead of continuing in  my corporate work. So I feel now because I'm playing to my complete strengths and then living my values of freedom am completely, you know, really cherishing every day, and I do a fantastic amount of, uh, I feel so, great work, at least I feel for my clients. So it's every day is a looking forward day. You know, I, I don't have any  {indistinguishable}or anything, so I'm really enjoying what I'm doing. 

Well, I think that's one of the benefits is that when you finally do find it, not only when you love what you do, but when you realize that what you're doing, um, benefits you and other people, it just changes everything.  It makes you feel so much better. 

Well, absolutely, absolutely the best. I think, see, this is one thing I will tell you, Peter, so lot of for ADHD people and, uh, you know, people say that know your strengths  per you have two strengths, but I think the challenge is most people do not know how to find the strength scientifically, OK In my case, I could go through the process scientifically. I really know what I'm good at. And I puts... it took a lot of time and once to latch on to your strengths, I think you'll supergift. So until then it could be struggled. So that is one of the, my key message. Uh, you know, the point I wanted to share with people is that, and I think for it specifically for ADHD, people, strengths is the only weapon they have, OK, because the moment you try to focus on the gender things, you lose the game. So you should, we all should know how to find our own strength scientific way so that we can play very, very powerful game.  

I think, obviously, as great as it sounds, you know, there's always, uh, it's never perfect. Right. So tell us about sort of the, some of the problems that you have or how you adjust them or the things that you know, drive... still drive you crazy.

Yeah, I think so. One thing I can tell you is that, um, I don't know about others, but I have figured out on my own, the whole crux of the, the formula. Okay. Uh, in fact, I'll share you sharing my one other . I have. I have found with this whole dopamine magic and the game a little ahead of the game. So basically I have a neat  a very nice diagram called Viagra.  There's a left side of the V and there is a right side of the left side of his V the destructive way of getting the dopamine through addictions and all those nonsense, the right side of the, uh, viz, the, all these good things like exercise, meditation, yoga, uh, you know, doing great work creative or problem solving those things.  So. I started, uh, you know, mass mastering the whole art of Dopamine very well. So. As long as I'm managing my Dopamine very well. I don't get into any issues. Okay. The days or times when I actually miss my document management, that is when I will, I will know that I've. So no, uh, I would say that I'm pretty consistent, uh, uh, Peter with my routine.  I know I do regular, uh, meditation and regular exercise, some form or the other. So these things will keep me my Dopamine, {indistinguishable} almost like this every morning I fill my Dopamine, and then I play my game. So the days when I don't feel my Dopamine, I know that it's not going to be great day.

Tell me about your, um, daily routine.

Yep. So I basically wanting it is almost like from last one and a half year been pretty consistent. I wake up at 6, and 6:15, I have online yoga, yoga. So it goes for, for, uh, one hour. Uh it's...it changed me in life really very well. The consistent yoga practice, then I do 45 minutes of, uh, meditation. I think I cost close to 550 or 600 hours of meditation now.  So it's, this is consistent. And during weekends I go for long runs, a little bit of weight training, but almost all seven days, the first two hours of my day, between six o'clock to eight, o'clock it just. Uh, goes into my schedule. Then I do my new planner. I sent you, right. I do 10 minutes of new planning, uh, because that, that really keeps me on the track. Then what I do is the basically divide the day into two parts. Okay. Two parts is basically one is the strategic zone. The other is the operations zone, the strategy zone is the zone where I create, like, basically I'll be working on business, like creating intellectual property or doing some design or creating some, offering, creating some methodology after that, the negative to my consulting and coaching calls. That's the way I divide my day. 

Okay, and what happens when things go off track? Because you know, like I said, it's not always perfect. So what happens when things go off track? How do you get yourself back on the right course? 

Yeah, it's a good thing. Right? So I have a lot of hacks, and one of the hacks  I follow is that I wear my shoes and go for a jog for a 5… 5K. So I know as I told you, right, my, the whole trick, is I know there is nothing I need to blame or look for or analyze that thing all I know, is that  the moment that things are not going well,, I know that my Dopamine is getting imbalanced, I just do some kind of an exercise and I’ll get it  back. How do you, yeah.

And I'm sorry, go ahead. 

Yeah, exercise is one of my hack. I get back, um, uh, to, to the class. So basically refill my, my Dopamine, either, it is exercise and meditation, and then I get back to my track.

How do you explain to people who might not have ADHD or understand the things that we go through? Why do you... do some of the things you do, or do you just simply not care?

No, I don't care, actually. So this is interesting, right? So this is in fact a frustration and I'm an, I'm a person I'm not so much keen on making a social moment on these things, but then I, what frustrates me, I'll tell you again, I it's, it may be different in different countries, except for example, in, um, in India or even not just in India, in some of the other places also, thatI speak about ADHD, right? Uh, in fact, I was talking to somebody, someone, one of my client today with ADHD. The first thing that they say is that, Oh, it's for kids, you don't have ADHD. They don't understand what ADHD is. Second, they think that, oh, this is some attention problem. The third thing they say is that, yeah, everybody's distracted.  So I feel, Oh my God, you can, you have no idea what you're talking about. So kind of what I realized, uh, Peter is that, it is very difficult to explain to a non {indistinguishable} person about ADHD. 

OK, so what do you wind up telling them? 

Okay. I mean, normally I don't tell them anything, so I just tell them that if at all, if somebody is that, why are you doing all these things? Uh, I mean, why do, why do you need to be so particular about rituals? You don't, I don't take certain things and all those things. I just say I have a different kind of a brain. I need to just manage it. Okay. It's not a disease, it's not a disorder, it's just the creative. It's the creative gene. It's like I say, it's a hunger gene, so that gene needs to be managed {indistinguishable}

I like that. It's not a disease. It's not a disorder. I like that.  

No, it’s not a disease, We can see the thing that what I, uh, what I always still I'm still trying to figure it out is I sometimes ask that by nature, the knee did, the nature has actually created this kind of a brain and structure. Or is it not… because it, if the nature has not created that kind of a structure, I'm not sure whether this much of this much innovation and creativity would be possible in the world. I sometimes feel like I take it as a by design. Some people are, are, are like this. I think we should accept it. Try to manage the simple metaphor I have is, it is today,,,, I call it, the roses with thorns. You need to manage how to, uh, you need to manage the thorns and appreciate about a rose. We are like a roses with thorns. 

That's a great, that's a great, I love it. That's a great analogy. Talk about your Neo planner. 

All right. So this new planet, I honestly, I had created because of my own, uh, this whole focus and, uh, you know, the, the distraction issues.  I was looking for a lot of, uh, uh, planners, uh, a to-do list, kind of a thing. Uh, Peter. So I bought a lot of, uh, general planners and they tried a lot of apps, these that, but no way, actually they did not know where they gave me a comprehensive way of managing myself. Okay. So what I meant is that. So then when we talk about the productivity data, right?  What is the people who will say it, say, Oh, you have a task and you do it. But I never build the concept because it's not about tasks, right? I can come, I can wake up and finish five tasks, but that's not just the complete thing, rght? So this is where I designed the concept. Okay. After researching so many of them, I got really frustrated because I was not getting what kind of planning planner I want.  Right. I went, created the framework. You can see that in the planner, it's there on pyramid. It is called neo-productivity. Neo-productivity is basically a full layer, uh, uh, you know, uh, productivity management tool. Basically you have to manage your life productivity. What is life productivity? Life productivity is about having the right values, right beliefs, right? Purpose for your life. Those things, all the other natures land belief system you should have because you... maybe you'll be doing a hundred great tasks. What if you feel that a value system is completely screwed up, right. That's... that's not productivity, right?  So you cannot just measure a person's productivity, just by a number of tasks.  So one, iis the life productivity then comes to the mind productivity, your ability to do deep work, your ability to create... to create, to work. All those things has pumped into the mind productivity. Right? How, how, how much might your mind is focused? We'll do a report. Then it comes to the strengths productivity.  This is where all of us, we are born with some unique talents. Right? So you need to basically see how much of your talents or strengths are you able to leverage? That's what strengths product with it. Once you attack in the life, productivity, mind productivity and strengths productivity, then comes to the task productivity.  If you manage the first three layers, task productivity become very natural. You know, subs and phenomena actually OK, to be taken care of, so, whereas the entire world talks, talks about only task productivity. So that is when I created this structure and they designed this. In fact, honestly, I created this for myself later on.  A lot of my clients, uh, used it and they found it very useful. That is when I kind of created as a product. So it is really beneficial. Um, it really, I would say it's, I don't remember the word, but definitely one of the, one of the first planet, which comprehensively oxable your life, mind strengths, task productivity.  It is a complete, uh, handle of your whole life. That that's the, that's the beauty about this planet. 

(18:45) I love it. I love it. Awesome. YK,  how can people find more about you? Where can they go? 

Yeah, the best way is you can WhatsApp me. I'm the most active person on WhatsApp. I'll you? My number it's I'm in India, so code is 91…. 91-9949-211399- a little bit again, 91- hyphen 9949--- 211399, or they can also reach me on yk@neostrategy.in, again, YK@neostrategy.in

Awesome. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for taking the time, I appreciate it. 

Thanks, thanks. Thanks for having me take care. 

Bye guys, you're listening to Faster Than Normal, thank you so much for listening as always. If you like what you hear, drop us a note, leave us a review. We'd love to have you, uh, if we can answer any questions, shoot me an email at https://www.shankman.com/ or Tweet me, Facebook, me, Instagram, me, whatever I'm everywhere. We will see you next week with all new interviews. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, ADHD is not a curse. It is not a condition, it's not a disease, it is a gift, we just need to learn how to use it. See you guys next week.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Taylor Jacobson is the founder of Focusmate (www.focusmate.com) a remote coworking community where people get things done, together. He's a trained executive coach with clients like Yale, Cornell, and Wharton, a wannabe adventurer, and a recovering pizza addict turned holistic health aspirant. He's been featured in The New Yorker, CNN, The Guardian, BBC, and more. Today we talk about, unscheduled downtime, accountability, our zone(s) of focus, anxiety, and how we Get Sh*t Done.  Enjoy!

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***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Taylor discuss:

   :40  -  Intro and welcome Focusmate founder Taylor Jacobson  [Thank you to Lisa Marks for introducing us!]

2:46  -  On Focusmate – what it is,  how and why you created it.

5:08  -  Did you find this type of focus tool was something you needed, and was that why you created it?

9:02  -  On societal (go-go-go) mentality and how Focusmate taps into the concept of accountability without being overbearing, hitting the sweet spot of good middle-ground

12:56  -  On sense of pride upon completion of a project/reward, and for Focusmate’s repeat customers, how it becomes a lifestyle tool to stay organized and accountable

14:46 -  On Focusmate session completion and the positivity that goes along with it

15:02  -  On advantageous results from frequent use of Focusmate sessions

16:00  -  On the concept of scheduling, and it’s vital importance for people with ADD/ADHD 

18:01  -  How do people find you and learn more and reach out to you?  @TaylorJascobson on Twitter or LinkedIN   People can head over to www.focusmate.com to sign up. Follow them on twitter @Focusmate 

For subscribers of this podcast! You can sign up and enter coupon code:  FTN  for your FREE month of Focusmate Turbo! 

19:15  -  Thank you Taylor! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

19:38  -  [Hey thanks a bunch Peter! It’s true @stevenbyrom is totally looking for more work]

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

20:44-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey, Hey, what's up everyone.?Happy, happy day. Hope you're having a wonderful day, my name is Peter Shankman and you are listening to another episode of Faster Than Normal. We believe that ADD, ADHD, anything in the neurodiverse world, can be a gift, if you know how to use it.   That doesn't mean we don't have problems, it doesn't mean we don't want to throw things against the wall alot of times it doesn't mean our brains aren't incredibly weird creatures that seem to have their own wants and desires, no matter what we try to do, that all still exists, but we don't believe that neuro-diversity is as bad as for instance, the people on Reddit make it out to be. I personally think that neuro-diversity is pretty cool. So I want to welcome you to another episode. I'm glad you're here.  Again, my name is Peter Shankman.  I am joined today by Taylor Jacobs. We're going to call this the “Get Shit Done,” episode or GSD episode, and we're going to talk to Taylor Jacobson, who founded a company called https://www.focusmate.com/.  Focusmate is a remote co-working community and we'll let him tell you all about that, but I love the idea, shout out to my friend, Lisa Marks, who I'm pretty sure Lisa introduced us, am I right? Yeah. Shout out to Lisa Marshall, who I also found out it was just, she gets some sort of a, I'm totally going to screw this up, she got some sort of award today. She was listed as one of the, I don't know, some designer to watch or something,  I don't know, she sends me texts all the time and I read them and then I kind of forget about them, but I do want to congratulate her on winning some sort of, uh, Women in Design Leadership Committee and Advisory Council there, I looked up the text.

Congratulations, Lisa, and thank you for turning me on tyo Taylor. Taylor has, is a trained executive coach. He has clients like, yeah, Cornell, Wharton. He's a wanna be adventure and he calls himself a recovering pizza addict, turned holistic health aspitant.  I hate every single one of those words, dude. I am, I am I, you don't recover from pizza, pizza gets you. And it's just, it just, is, so we're going to talk about that. It's all bullshit. There has no, no not okay. He's been in the https://www.newyorker.com/ ,   https://www.cnn.com/ ,  https://www.theguardian.com/us ,   https://www.bbc.com/  and more.   Taylor, welcome to Faster Than  Normal. 

Thank you, Peter. 

I am thrilled to have you. I love the concept of Focusmate. Tell us before you, I mean, tell us a little about what it is that... I want to find out how you created it, because it seems like something that everyone needs beyond all conceivable belief.  So tell us, tell us about, tell us about it and then tell us about why you created it.  

Yeah, so we'll give a quick overview of what it actually is. So we, we call it virtual co-working, but, but basically you and a, motivating buddy, an accountability buddy, get on a 50 minute video call where you hold each other accountable and you keep each other company while you each work on your own stuff, your own projects.  Um, so, you know, our, our, our application online. It's, you know, you basically schedule anytime you want to get work done, you just book an appointment. There's people available all over the world, 24/7.  Um, and you get matched up with somebody awesome, and when your appointment starts, you greet each other and really in like a minute or less, you share what you are planning to work on, and you might write it down in the chat to be a little extra accountable, and then you just get to work.  Most people mute themselves. Um, and your partner is there. You can see them. Um, I, for instance, I’ll put my partner on a second screen so I can see them while I'm working on my main screen, and you just do your work and you might update each other.  “Hey, I just finished you know,  my first task. I wrote my to-do list and now I'm moving on to outlining this blog post.”  And, but you're not talking, you're um, you're just sitting there quietly working sort of side by side, if you will. And at the end of the 50 minutes, a bell goes off, um, and you come back to say hi to your partner again, and just say, “hey, how'd it go?”  And you have this moment of reflection and it's not meant to be punitive or anything like that.  It's really just checking in and, and, um, and hopefully celebrating a little before you go on your respective way. And, and, you know, we do 50 minutes. That's the only format we offer at the moment, um, but one of the nice things about it is a lot of people do Focusmate sessions back to back. Um, so it sort of builds, builds in a….break. You can go get a snack or whatever, and then get back to it. So I'll leave it there, but that is what Focusmate is, in a nutshell.

I love the concept. I mean, I, first of all, I imagine, I imagine the person on the second screen, sort of watching it from above like, “Oh, look, God's here.” I love the concept, you know, for, for a lot, because I run a mastermind and, and it's, I’ve…. I've stopped calling the mastermind of late and started calling it an accountability group because that's really what it is.  No guys, I need to make sure that I do “X” - someone make sure by Thursday that a... bug me on Thursday that I've done “Y” right?  and I love the concept of doing it in real time. That is, that is brilliant. Um, what did you, was it something that you found that you needed and that's why you started it? 

Yeah. Yeah.  So, absolutely, yes, um, you know, I started working remotely 10 years ago and, and I had a job at the time and, uh, you know, my, my commute got really far, so I basically begged my boss to let me work from home and overnight I went from being, I think, a pretty high performer to just absolutely useless, really, really struggling.  I just, and I, and I,  I didn't, you know, I didn't quote/unquote get fired, but it was about as close to getting fired, you know, as you can get, I was shown the door very gently, thankfully, but, um, you know, it just shows you, I couldn't cope with the lack of structure, um, of, you know, I didn't have a place to, I didn't, I didn't have to take a shower in the morning and put real people clothes on,  and be somewhere at a certain time. And, um, so the lack of structure and that just the lack of having people who could look over my shoulder and see if I was on, uh, on Facebook or just, just the thought that somebody could take a look and see if I was working, and, and so I really, really struggled and I, I did not figure it out for a really long time. And that, that struggle, it really thrust me into, you know, first it was shame and then depression, and then it just, you know, thankfully it really lit a fire under me to delve into the study of productivity and, and behavior change and, and all these things.  But I just experimented with everything that I could find and, and, a few years ago I was talking to... this is while I was executive coaching, which that, that whole career was really born out of this struggle of like, oh my goodness, it's so hard to just be who I want to be, uh, to do what I want to do. Um, I was talking to a friend who was also working from home and, and, you know, we were intimate enough friends, that we were just being very vulnerable with each other, and, um, it was in fact him that was procrastinating worse than me at the moment. But, um, I just sort of had this spur of the moment, you know what I'm going to tell my  friend, Jake was his name, I'm going to tell him like my dark fantasy of what I'd really like, what I'd really like, you know, in terms of a support structure.  And honestly, I felt kind of silly and a bit ashamed telling him about it, cause I, you know, we just have all these narratives about, kind of how we  you know, is it the sort of fierce, you know, rugged individualism of American culture and, um, all the language that we use around productivity, which basically likens us to machines and all this stuff.  So anyways, I was like, you know, Jake, here's my fantasy. I want to get on a video call and I want to, I want to tell, you know, to break this stuff down into specific tasks and, and, and just keep each other company and check in on each other, so Jake was down for that. And so he and I did the first quote/unquote Focusmate session about five years ago now, and you know, it just, both of us had tried everything under the sun, and then we had this, just magic moment where like,  “Oh my gosh, this really works!”  Uh, and you know, it just clicked like, Oh, there's gotta be millions of people who aren't so different from us that would really benefit from this same technique.

No question about it. And you know, what, what I find interesting, uh, I think the most is about it, is that, um, you know, we are a society that… and you said it yourself, we thrive on that whole, oh, we have to work, we have to work, we have to work, you know, and, and, and I've always been of the opinion that we're killing ourselves, you know, we have these, of these, um, you have these, uh,  I hate the term called  “gurus” right?... on Instagram, um, specifically one who has a three-letter last name who talks about, you know, make sure you're hustling, you're gonna be hustling. And if you have nine hours, you know, if you have 24 hours a day and 18 of them are working and you know, you'll leave to see your kid for 30 minutes and just make them dinner and put them to sleep, but it works the more, you know, sleep 20 minutes, like, what are you doing? you're telling  people to kill themselves, you know? And so the, the premise of, of having to always be on is a, is definitely a societal thing, right? It affects us in America, it affects a lot of Asia. Um, hell the UK has it, they have it nailed down!  right,  OK, we’ve worked a week, time for six weeks off! But,, but on the flip side of that and what I love so much about what you’ve built, is that when I sit down to work, it's time to work, right?  I might not work 20 hours a day, I don't work 20 hours a day, right?  I try to strive... strive for that, I used to... I strive for that balance now, but when I sit down, it's like, okay, go  go, go and for me, the worst thing that has happened over this past year, and I think this episode is going to air about two months from now, but, but the, the… we are talking, we are having this conversation, you and I, on the Monday of the, of the one year anniversary of when everything shut down, right? This is the week that everything truly went to hell right?  A year ago with Covid, and for me, uh, my work, work place was on an airplane, and to no longer have that, to have that just taken away from me, you know, was, was brutally difficult. And so I think that something like this, even though it's not my preferred workplace, which is up in the air, you know, put me on a plane, 14 hours to Tokyo, and I'll write you a book, but, but which I've done like four times, but the, um, knowing that someone is there, to keep an eye on me without being sort of overbearing. I think you might have tapped into that perfect middle ground there. 

Yeah. You know, it's not so different from the, you know, sit on an airplane for 14 hours. It's, it's a shorter time duration than that. But, um, yeah, it really, it goes back into this idea of like, you know, we're not machines, and so what is a support structure that just works for us. And, and, and I, I love the philosophy that you talked about in introducing your show about. You know that our neurodiversity can be our gifts. And, and I think the can be... is for me, is about, do we really embrace them? Do we really lean into them and just celebrate them and just say, okay, well, like how much can I learn about how this thing works so that I can tap into the awesomeness that's actually, um, You know, it's, it's two sides of the same coin. So for me, yeah, Focusmate is not about grinding ourselves into submission more, it's... it's about just saying, Hey, this is how we are, and if we embrace that, um, you know, what's going to work for us and this, you know, you could talk if you're interested, uh, we can dive into maybe why that's the case, but it's just a support structure that, that clicks for, you know, human beings, the way that we are. Um, and yeah, like you alluded to, it has this awesome side effect of yeah, when you're on you're on, and then like, there's nothing better than getting to the end of your last Focusmate session of the day and being like, all right, I'm done. And you know, for me, and for so many of our users, it really creates that like finitude, and sort of a celebratory finish line where it really empowers you to be switched off when you're off too. 

I think that there's, there's also the aspect of it when you're done and you've completed it, there's a sense of pride, and studies have shown that pride... sense of pride, where you do something and you get it and you nail it, actually leads to dopamine,  leads to dopamine,  leads to adrenaline leads to serotonin, and so it could be a wonderful feedback loop in that regard. Okay. I know I'm going to work for four hours now and I'm excited about that, cause I know where I’m going, I know what my reward… then we get the mental reward and the stimulus reward going to at the end of this, which starts the process or even earlier.  So like, okay, let's sit down and do this. And I know that again, I, I linked back to the plane. When I get on that plane, I'm excited to work, right? I'm excited to take off, here's my Diet Coke, OK, let's rock this. You know, and there's that, there's that, uh, I think that, you know, normal people have, um, more normal ways of getting excited, but for me, this works, you know, but, but it it's, it's the thing that, okay, let's do this, let's get this done.  That's, that's a, that's a wonderful feeling. So I would assume that I would assume you have pretty high retention. I'm assuming that people who... who use you, tend to come back. 

Oh, a hundred percent, yeah. It really becomes like a lifestyle. Um, yeah, I was just looking at some, some tweets, uh, in preparation for this of, of, you know, ADHD years who, who use Focusmate,  and, um, yeah, you know, people just, uh, it's like, I use this every day to start my day. All right. You know, I do two sessions a day every day, um, yeah, cause it just, I don't know, for me, it's like the metaphor I use, is it's like getting in an inner tube and floating down the lazy river as a way of getting things done, and, you know, if you have the right environment, it's really easy, you just float to your destination, hopefully. Um, so that's kinda how it feels. Um, I think it’s, you know, book…. book some  Focusmate  sessions when you want to be getting stuff done, and you can almost like relax into that, and know that you're going to get where you want to get to. 

It's actually an interesting concept, because I look at it as the other thing, you know, you're, you're when you're, when you're on, you're on and you compared it to the lazy river, I get that, I mean, I get that you're just going to get your…. I think the end result…. what you're trying to, you're going to get there, right?

Yeah. I think both metaphors, both metaphors are true in a way. 

Yeah. I love that. Now tell me, um, when you, how often are you on it? I'd be like, do you use it? Do you use it religiously as well? Now that, you know, I know when I was, when I was running my company, it's like, you know, I started it, because I needed it and then, you know, you're, you're running it and it doesn't help as much, or you're like, “Oh God, I have to do this now.”  But yeah, I could see that. It's still, I'm guessing it's still pretty useful. 

Yeah. Well, you know I’m  like in my job, I find that I have a lot of meetings and I have stuff like this, and yet I obviously want to get things done as well, and, um, you know, you can block us time to do deep, you know, so-called deep work, but nothing works for me the way that, um, actually booking a Focusmate appointment and saying this time is sacred. Um, so there's a few days a week,and, and at least a few hours every day, where I just block off time for Focusmate co-working and that, you know, and then I, and I schedule my meetings around that. So it actually really, really helps, um, yeah. 

I find that, um, when you have, uh, the scheduling, the concept of scheduling is, is without question the ultimate, um, sort of necessity for anyone with ADHD. If you're not scheduling things, if you're not putting things like for instance, one of the, one of the things about COVID is that, you know, I can give two keynotes, maybe I was giving five keynotes a month, um, before COVID hit, I was on a plane all the time. Now I can get five keynotes in two days. Um, you know, I can do one in Tokyo at 7:00 AM and one in Bangkok at, at, at 9:00 AM, and, um, you know, then I'm home and I haven't left my apartment, right?  Which leaves a lot of free time, and when your ADHD free time is kind of the kiss of death, right? Unscheduled downtime is... is kind of the kiss of death because, you know, scheduled downtimes is OK,, I'm gonna play with my daughter, I'm gonna go outside, I'm gonna go swimming, I'm gonna work out whatever, but unscheduled downtime as, you get it, I have an hour to kill, and nothing to do.  Maybe I'll start a company, maybe I'll try that. You know, it's like, there's no, there's no middle ground there, right? It's all or nothing. Um, when, when, when, when you're, when you're ADHD, and so I would imagine that unscheduled downtime could be perfect for, OK, you know what? I'm going to work on that thing I've been putting off and I'm gonna, I'm going to do a Focusmate session to do it. 

Yeah, I actually, I really relate, like I feel anxiety when I see unscheduled downtime, like, Oh, for sure. I'm going to screw that up. Like go way off the rails, and I'm going to alternately nap and eat pizza and watch TV and, you know, wake up, two days later. 

What is your, I have to ask, what is your, uh, what is your go-to, uh, OK, I just finished it and now I'm going to start again, uh, series on Netflix or Hulu, or whatever it is.  

You know, I don't, I don't, I haven't yet repeated any series. 

Really? Yeah, OK I mean, I watch a lot of new stuff on the bike. I don't allow myself to watch new series, if I'm not on the bike because otherwise I just won't ever work. I'll like, just that'll be my entire day, but when I'm, when I have some time to kill and I just want to lay on the couch and not think about things, I tend to go back to King of the Hill a lot. 

Nice. 

It's a classic, but, uh, so tell us, so, so how can, um, people can head over to www.focusmate.com, and they can just sign up. I see that, that you're given that you get three free sessions a week. 

Yes. We actually have a free plan that is forever free, no credit card. You can use it on the free plan indefinitely. Um, and our paid plan is to have unlimited sessions, uh, and that's currently $5 per month. Um, so, yeah love to, you know, have anyone who's interested, just give it a shot. Um, let us know what you think.  

Guys, I can tell you that, that, um, you know, I don't often recommend products on podcasts, but we will link to it. It is Focusmate, it is one of those things that it's just, it's such a no-brainer to use. It makes such perfect sense for people like us, because it's literally exactly the kind of stuff that we have to deal with, and this is an answer, a solution for that, so strongly recommend it. Uh, I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast. This was truly phenomenal, Taylor. I really appreciate it. How can people find you? Are you, are you on the socials? Where are you where people can impart more of your wisdom? 

Yeah, I am, um, you can find me on Twitter or  https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylorjacobson/ My Twitter is https://twitter.com/taylorjacobson?lang=en. Um, so yeah, love to connect with folks, uh, on the socials. 

 Awesome, awesome, Taylor, thank you so much for taking the time. We want to know what you want to hear. Uh, do you have a guest that you think might be awesome? Could you be as cool as Lisa Marks and recommend someone as cool as Taylor to come on the podcast? Let me know, shoot me an email. Peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all the socials or @FasterNormal  We would love to hear your suggestions for who we should have on, um, wanting to give a shout out to Steven Byrom, who is our wonderful producer, who makes me sound good, which isn't necessarily the easiest thing in the world because as I'm interviewing people, I'm also doing a million other things. And so he gets rid of all that background noise, all of all the stuff you don't hear. Chances are, I'm doing construction right now and you won't hear it! Because we have an amazing producer named Steven Byrom @stevenbyrom on Twitter . {thank you Peter}  If you need a Producer, I know he's looking for more work. [Always! Reels, library samples and resume at www.byroMMusic.com]

Um, thank you, Steven and Taylor again. Thank you guys. We'll be back next week and we hope to see you. Then. My name is Peter Shankman. This is Faster Than Normal! ADHD and all neurodiversity is a gift, not a curse, we’ll see you soon! 

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Dr. George Sachs is the co-founder and clinical director of Inflow, the first science-based digital program built exclusively for people with ADHD, by people with ADHD.  Inflow is an app-based program that is grounded in the proven principles of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), and their mission is to help every person with ADHD reach their full potential by providing sustainable, accessible, and cost-effective support. Alongside their core seven-week program, Inflow offers a safe community space and a range of supportive tools, from ADHD-specific meditations to live events and personalized journaling. Dr. Sachs has committed most of his life to helping others with ADHD. He was diagnosed later in life and is a licensed child psychologist and adult psychologist. He is the author of four books on ADHD and the founder of The Sachs Center in New York. Half the team at Inflow have ADHD, and Dr. Sachs is passionate about promoting neurodiversity in both the workplace and wider society. Inflow will be available for download on the App Store or Google Play Store from April 2021. Enjoy!

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***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Dr. George Sachs discuss:

0:57  -  Intro and welcome Dr. Sachs! 

2:30  -  On trends, explosion of cases with ADD/ADHD in the past 10 years  Ref: Dr. Sachs’s practice.  Ref:  Executive function

5:15  -  On the concept of your app, InFlow.  What is it, how did you come up with it and what does it do? 

7:58  -  On technology being used as a helpful tool and not a hindrance. Benefits vs dangers

9:03  -  On the challenge of getting resources to everyone who needs help

10:10  -  On focusing on moderation w/ an ADHD mind that’s not necessarily wired for moderation

11:22  -  On finding balance/‘out-of-sight-out-of-mind’/meditation & mindfulness

12:58  -  On how people are handling the lack of rituals, habits, stability, consistency during this past year + of the pandemic, specifically 

14:21  -  Advice for restoring rituals, daily habits, and building back. “external motivation”

15:57  -  On replacing willpower with scheduled routine/built-in structure and accountability 

17:33  -  How do people find you and learn more and reach out to you? Get the App on April 5th in the Apple Store HERE or via Google Play. Find out more about and how to directly contact Dr. Sachs via his website https://sachscenter.com  His books are linked there too!

18:11  -  Dr. Sachs, thanks so much for taking the time being on Faster Than Normal, I appreciate it.  Guys, as always, Faster Than Normal, if you liked what you heard drop us a review.  We appreciate you guys being on the podcast, we appreciate people listening. We are, as far as I can tell, one of the top, if not the top ADHD podcast out there, so I love that, and that is all because of YOU guys, and I am eternally grateful. If you have a guest that you think might work, or maybe it's you, someone you know, You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. We would love to hear from you guys, uh, it thrills us to no end when we get notes. Also, one final thing, if you have the book, if you've read Faster Than Normal the book, go on to wherever you bought it https://www.amazon.com/ or https://www.audible.com - whatever, drop us a review, you'd be amazed at how those reviews really, really help. As always, thank you for listening. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We are looking forward to seeing you next week, you guys take care.

18:29  -  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter, Shankman welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal, I'm thrilled that you're here as always. It is a grey day in New York City here on this Monday, but at least it's not raining, so that is always a plus. Good to have you here, I hope you had a great weekend. I don't know when you're listening to this airs on Wednesdays, that doesn't really matter, but anyway, hope you're having a great day. Want to introduce you today to Dr. George Sachs. Dr. Sachs is co-founder and clinical director of Inflow, the first science based digital program for managing ADHD, and we're going to talk about that because some of our best guests ever, uh, Dr. Emily Anhalt, Dr. Rachel Cotton, all those people are all science-based and they usually give us the best interviews. So I am psyched for that. Dr. Sachs is a licensed child psychologist and adult psychologist, uh, especially in treatment of ADD,  ADHD, autism, spectrum disorders in children,  teens and adults. He did his clinical training in Chicago at Cook County Hospital, Mount Sinai Hospital, and the child study center.  He completed his internship postdoc work at Children's Institute in LA, where he supervised and trained therapists in trauma focused CBT or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.  TF, CBT,  see, every day there is another version of, of CBT that I am  forced to learn. All right. Cool. Dr. Sachs, welcome to Faster Than Normal, it's great to have you,

Thank you very much, it's great to be here. 

I was just saying in classic ADHD style, I didn't have you on my calendar and we don't know who’s at fault, but that's okay, that’s we do. 

Right, that is the challenge with ADD and having my own ADD, uh, sometimes I, you know, we never know who's at fault, but in this case, uh, we cancel each other out.  

We make it work, exactly. So, so it was funny. Cause I remember when, uh, when I first you mentioned, you knew Dr. Hallowell, when I first interviewed him for an episode #1 of the podcast all the way back, like, four... four years ago now, um, I remember that I showed up at his office an hour early, um, and he thought the interview was an hour late. And so it actually worked perfectly on time. 

See, there you go.  

Um, but yeah, it happens. So tell us about, um, your, you focus, especially as an ADHD… tell us what it's been like over the past… let's say 10 years, right? What trends have you noticed in ADD & ADHD? Has it, have you noticed, I mean, a lot of people have said they've seen an explosion in new cases, an explosion in diagnosis. Tell us what you've seen from, from a clinical standpoint. 

Well, obviously, uh, okay. So, I’m a Clinical Psychologist. I have that practice on 78th, on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, specializing in, uh, the, the testing and treatment of children, teens, and adults with ADHD. I also focus on Autism,  ASD and Asperger's, um, although that is not the term used anymore, but, um, uh, that is the one I prefer. So, yeah, so I've been working with ADHD for a long time. I myself have ADHD and have had it my whole life, uh, but only realized it in my thirties, I'm now 52, um, but I think the biggest change really is this focus from away... from attention problems or focus problems to Executive Functioning deficits.  And Executive Functioning, uh, really is, includes a lot of different areas, organizational deficits, time management problems, uh, self control, impulsivity issues, emotional dysregulation, uh, so those are just a few, but it, uh, decision-making and organization. So... it really affects a lot of areas of our lives. So I, I, I, I see that as a big focus and change that, uh, I'm working on and that's what we're working with, um, Inflow on, bringing, um, information and tools and techniques on how to overcome, uh, executive functioning deficits.  Uh, so yeah, so that's a big change I've seen.  Also, I have to say that another big change…. change is the, is the, um, is the interest in neuro-diversity, and I think this is wonderful, this idea that, you know, 10 years ago, ADHD was up, a problem to be fixed and a disorder and there was a heaviness to it. But now I see, you know, the culture and society moving towards an acceptance of neuro-diversity and that's wonderful because I think people with neuro-diverse, uh, minds can really add to, and change the world.

I totally agree. And you know, it's interesting because I'm, I'm a lot of the work I do is with companies and corporations and sort of how they're learning to, to embrace the neuro-diverse, uh, employee, they're realizing that it's, it's, it's a value. There's a, there's a value there, to hiring people with different brains and that they do benefit. So it's, it's nice to see that there's, that you're seeing that in other areas as well. Um, let's talk,  let's talk science, let's talk about, uh, the, the concept of Inflow. What is it? How'd you come up with it? What does it do? 

Well, um, Inflow is a science-based learning program on the mobile... on the mobile phone, it's an application to help people with ADHD reach their full potential and myself, and as the clinical director teamed up with two amazing entrepreneurs, uh, one from England and one's from South Africa, and together we have built this, uh, amazing program for people with ADHD. It's interesting cause it's for people with ADHD,  by ADHD, by people with ADHD and myself included, but the entire team really, uh, I would say 50% of us, uh, the greater larger team here has some form of neuro-diversity, so we really understand, uh, you know, the problems with ADHD and the, the learning modules are not just a formulaic, you know, information about getting another plan or things like that, it's really things that I've found effective with my clients , and….work for myself, so they're really creative solutions to managing some of the difficulties of ADHD. The program is based on CBT, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. So what's unique about the app is that we not only do we give psycho-education in this unique way, creative, unique solutions for people with ADHD, but we have, uh, challenges.  So each day you're…. you're provided with a challenge in, and you have to apply that in your real life. For example, we, we coach in the app, something called the launching pad and that's kind of a bowl or a dish or a place near the door where you put your keys, your wallets and things like that, so that you don't have to scramble for them in the morning, and then the, the challenge is you have to actually use it. And then come back on a daily basis to the app and swipe that you've, you've got it, and of course over time it becomes habitual… and  a new tool is learned. 

Interesting. What, how... talk about how you believe that technology has helped people with ADHD?  You know, for me, just before we started, I shut off my, my, my living room thermostat by, by asking, you know, my computer to do it, right automatically, and so what happens, uh, in a world where technology is so ingrained from kids as young as you know, birth, right? I mean, my daughter is almost eight, and she, uh, especially with everything going on with COVID, you know, is as, almost as computer savvy as I am right? And so, so how does tech, how do we make sure technology is a help and not a hindrance, right?  What do we say to parents who are saying, “I can't, you know, my kid is on Zoom all day, and then on his iPad,or his phone all night and you know, I, more stuff, you know, how do, how do we, how do we make that differential between beneficial and, uh, dangerous, for lack of a better word.  

Well, that’s  a good question, and I get that a lot in my practice, particularly from parents of teenagers and children, but adults, uh, can also struggle with this, this balance, and it really is a balance because I think technology can really be an amazing tool. Uh, I myself have grown tremendously with Google and Google calendar and Gmail and the integration of all those and in my phone, so I think for people, which by the way is amazing as well. So, um, my point is it can be an amazing thing with, uh, in moderation and, and, you know, I see, you know, uh, um, uh, not tens, tens, yeah, maybe a hundred people, um, you know, a year at my practice. I don't know. It's, it's not, it's not as many as we, as the app can reach. And so, that was one of the exciting things about doing Inflow, the app, is that now I can, you know, teach and coach as many people as download the app and that, and we're, we're providing it to all over North America, Canada, Australia, UK.  So, as you know,  you know, therapy and group therapy for ADHD and even ADHD coaching can be very expensive, and the research I've done, is that there's 33 psychologists per 100,000 people, and 9 psychiatrists per 100,000 people in the United States.  So, you know, the challenge is, I mean, technology offers us an opportunity to bring uh, real tools, ADHD learning, to as many people as possible, so I think in that way, it's very positive, but yeah, I mean, if you're taking your phone to bed and you're up until two in the morning, it's going to impact your life. 

Well, here's an interesting question because you said that, that, you know, it's fine in moderation, but yeah. ADHD, we're not known for moderation, quite the opposite.  We're known for, you know, all or nothing  you know, we don't, we don't moderate and eat two slices of pizza, we eat the pizza, right?  So we have to learn ways around that. So how do you focus on implementing moderation to a brain that isn't necessarily able to accept it as easily as, uh, you know, other brains

Well, these are things that, um, I coach in my practice and are also in the app and there's a couple of tools that we use, but I mean, I think out of sight, out of mind is one of the easiest and, you know,  if we see something we're triggered, so I think in many cases removing that from your eyesight is something that will reduce, you know, the, the, the trigger to eat more.   

So do you put a time limit on it, as it were?  

What’s that?  

Like, a time limit?  

No. I mean like physically removing it from your refrigerator or like there's foods that I want, but I can't buy, because I'll just say in the entire, 

But I'm talking about specifically... is electronics, right? If, you know, you mentioned that you have to put a, uh, put a sort of, uh, limits on your electronic usage, right?  But that's easier said than done most of the time. 

Well, um, I mean, it can be as simple as removing the app from your, uh, your home screen, you know, something like that. I mean, that's the way, at least for me, when I, you know, I may miss it for a day or two, but then it's like gone and, and I, and I don't miss it.  So, I mean, there's, there does need to be some boundaries set and, some um, um, you know, personal limitations put in, but I think you know, that concept of out of sight out of mind is really important. Um, the other one, which is harder to develop, but I think the best actual treatment for ADHD, is mindfulness and meditation.  And some people say, well, I can't do that, that's, you know, I can't sit for any period of time, but what we, um, one of the modules in the Inflow app is on mindfulness. And it's just, I mean, it's really just creating a sense of, of being in the present moment and slowing ourselves down so that we can make better decisions about whether to indulge in that thing or, you know, impulse buy that thing. So I mean, this, these are the two things that work for me is #1, is to, is to literally remove it from my site, and #2 to slow myself down and practice mindfulness on a daily basis, to...to be able to make better decisions. 

Yeah. That makes sense. I mean, the premise that, you know, it's, it's the, for me, if it's not, again, same thing with the food, if it's not in the fridge, I’m not gonna have it,, right?  If the, if the, if the app to order the delivery is not, on my phone, um, you know, it's gonna be harder to use, um, talk for a second about, uh, the last year, right? I mean, we've been in just a crazy time and, um, I know that for me, you know, all of, a lot of my rituals and a lot of the things that I use to sort of keep me, uh, focused and working and beneficial have really gone out the window, right? I'm not on a plane anymore, uh, three, you know, two or three times a week. Uh, it's been very tough to sort of build that back. Um, what have you seen. Uh, you know, between... with your clients and, and, and with what you've heard in the industry, you know, what have you seen in terms of how people are handling that?  Cause it's, it's, it's tough for anyone, but I think when you have ADD and ADHD, and you're very set on rituals and routines to just sort of be thrown into, not even, even now, right? I mean, you know, school is open for a week or two, and then someone catches COVID and it's shut down for two weeks, you know, there's no, there's no stability anymore.

Yeah. I mean, I, you know what, it's really interesting. It's been a year, I think, and about a month ago I started seeing people really crashing and particularly teenagers were really suffering because they need that social interaction, and kids too, um, but with ADHD, yeah, we need the, we need the, uh, the script, but we need the, the rituals, we need the… the outline of how we're going to go, and not have to think about it. 

Um, so any tips or recommendations on what, what kids or even adults can do to sort of get a little bit of that back when it's hard to find? 

Okay, well, this is a big, um, a big tool that I like and I call it “Externalizing the Motivation” and most people with ADHD struggle, uh, to get things done and to do things because as Dr. Barkley says, one of the gurus in the field, he says that the internal voice of willpower in people with ADHD is weak, so we actually have to externalize it. And for me, that means. I really put everything on, um, anything that I struggled to do, I externalized. Um, and so if I need to do some writing, if I want to do some creative writing, I'll join a creative writing class. And if I need to work out, I, I. I will, you know, there's a tennis court near me,  I'll, I'll take a class. So I, I I've accepted my ADHD, which by the way, is the first step. And if we accept it, then we realize we can't really do things by ourselves, and we have to find external support, a class, uh, an accountability buddy, a teacher, um, a program. And so anything like that, and you, you know, in your book, you talk about swapping, um, um, cleaning duties, which I thought was really interesting.  So I, I think if you're struggling to get things done, it's important to think about what can I do outside myself to get motivation. And that might, that generally comes from other people. 

So I think it also, I found for a lot of people that I've talked to with having the podcast, it also comes from sort of, again, those rituals, the concept of, you know, uh, creating situations that allow you to get up early or to start your day or whatever, that you don't have to think about. I think that the willpower is, uh, uh, a silent or, you know, a quieter voice, but when you don't have to think about it and you just do it, right?  So, you know, the concept of, of sleeping in your gym clothes, like I mentioned, right, we're getting up early and just, you know, you're on the bike or whatever it is. So I think there's a, there's a, a couple of, of, you know, I agree that I am more apt to get, uh, to the gym when I know my trainers waiting for me, but again, you know, not necessarily something we've been able to do recently, 

I mean in your book at, again, you talk about your running partner, you know, like who met you in the park at 4:30 in the morning?

Still does. Yeah. That's very true. 

And still does in this, this is the perfect example of externalizing, the motivation and something like that is really, uh, you know, focused on in our Inflow app. So, you know, You have to be creative in different ways to approach that, but back to the old whole idea of a morning routine or a schedule.  Yeah, we, it takes cognitive energy to, to think about what I'm going to do next and what I'm going to do next, and by having a schedule, a routine, you know, we can go on autopilot, save the cognitive resources for later in the day when we really need it to get things done.  So, you know, it is important to have a schedule and also the external accountability from a friend or some other support systems.

It makes sense to me. Dr.,  how can people find you if they want to learn more or reach out to you? 

Well, they can, uh, find me, you can download the app, uh, at the, at the GooglePlay store or the, um, the Apple store. You can look for Inflow ADHD, the app will be available in April, April 5th, and you can find me, uh, just Google me, George Sachs Physchologist, ADHD, and you'll find my practice here in New York City. 

Very cool, that's nice. Thank you so much for taking the time, I truly appreciate it, and, uh, we will, we will definitely have you back, I'd love to hear how the app's going and we’ll have you back in like six months or so, and then talk some more. 

Okay, thank you very much.

Guys. As always, Faster Than Normal, we appreciate you being here. ADHD is a gift and not a curse, as long as you know how to use it, use some of the ways Dr. Sachs has talked about, let us know what works for you, and doesn't.  Leave us a review, if you'd like to shoot me a note at www.petershankman.com or  Peter Shankman (@petershankman) • Instagram photos and videos  Peter Shankman (@petershankman) | Twitter all the socials, and either way, we'll see you next week, and we thank you for listening.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

We’re talking about workouts & and how the pursuit of physical fitness strengthens your brain, mind-body inter-communication, re-defining your identity and the snooze bar challenge today! Layne Norton holds a PhD in nutritional sciences and a BS in biochemistry and has contributed numerous original scientific research publications to journals such as The Journal of Nutrition, American Journal of Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism, and the International Journal for Sports Nutrition. He has been involved in the fitness industry for over 20 years as a competitor, coach, author, and entrepreneur. He has competed as a pro natural bodybuilder as well as pro natural powerlifter, winning nationals twice (2014 and 2015) and achieving a gold medal in the squat at 2015 IPF World Championships (668 lbs) and a silver medal overall. He has published various books including Fat Loss Forever and the Complete Contest Prep Guide. More recently he co-founded Carbon Diet Coach a nutritional coaching app available for iOS and Android. He also recently launched a new supplement line, Outwork Nutrition.  Enjoy!

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***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Layne Norton discuss:

1:05  -  Intro and welcome Layne Norton!

2:30  -  So, 668 lbs… dude.. let’s talk about that small elephant you lifted!

4:00  -  On “let’s work out right now, no, Now”

5:00 -  On the process of exercise and healthy habits/losing weight and keeping it off 

5:40  -  On the term “low-recency” and what that means for losing weight

7:00  -  On keeping your resolutions and what that means/all it entails

9:34  -  On mind-body inter-communication

10:34  -  On how ADD/ADHD tendencies can border addiction – how one skip day can spiral into getting off the repetition train. 

12:00 -  On cultivating confidence; setting smaller goals to achieve long-term & larger results and correcting setbacks

12:55  -  The one week, “no snooze bar” challenge

14:39  -   On rituals vs resolutions; breaking old habits & behaviors; re-defining your identity

17:00  -  On examininging your habits and behaviors 

18:35  -  On healthier outcomes via smarter choices and life hacks!

20:00  -  On the psychology of eating

21:09  -  On CBT & DBT and how it can be an extremely helpful tool

22:50  -  Tell people how they can find you and get more info on you?  @biolayne on Twitter  INSTA  YouTube  and LayneNorton on Facebook  You can find his books, products and services via his website:  www.BioLayne.com and his new App Carbon Diet Coach <—here!

23:50  -  Layne Norton, thanks so much for taking the time being on Faster Than Normal, I appreciate it.  Guys, as always, Faster Than Normal, if you liked what you heard drop us a review.  We appreciate you guys being on the podcast, we appreciate people listening. We are, as far as I can tell, one of the top, if not the top ADHD podcasts out there, so I love that, and that was all because of you guys, and I am eternally grateful. If you have a guest that you think might work, or maybe it's you, someone you know, You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. We would love to hear from you guys, uh, it thrills us to no end when we get notes. Also, one final thing, if you have the book, if you've read Faster Than Normal the book, go on to wherever you bought it https://www.amazon.com/ or https://www.audible.com - whatever, drop us a review, you'd be amazed at how those reviews really, really help. As always, thank you for listening. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We are looking forward to seeing you next week, you guys take care.

24:09  -  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hi everyone,  you are listening to another episode of Faster Than Normal,  the neurodiversity podcast where we understand that ADD and ADHD, anything along those lines, is a gift, not a curse, and the more people we get to understand that, the better everyone's lives will be! :) We are thrilled that you are here today, my name is Peter Shankman, I am your host as I have been for the past 200 something episodes, and that will probably continue to be long in the future because I don't like change.  Anyway, great to have all of you listening today and I want to introduce a man who I've been following on Twitter for at least God, three, four, five years maybe now.   Layne Norton is a PhD in nutrition... nutritional science, and a BS in biochemistry. He has written numerous scientific research publications to journals such as the Journal of Nutrition, American Journalist Psychology, I'm sorry. Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism, the International Journal for Sports Nutrition. He's been involved in the fitness industry for over 20 years as a competitor, a coach, an author, and entrepreneur,  yes, if you haven't already figured it out, this is a fitness episode. He's competed as a pro natural bodybuilder, as well as a pro natural powerlifter winning nationals twice in 2014 and 2015 and achieving a gold medal in the squat, at the 2015 IPF World Championships, 668 pounds. So repeat that, he squatted 668 pounds as I look over in the corner at my two 25 pound kettlebells, and I'm so inspired that I'm just going to end this interview and go and eat a pizza… Layne, welcome, it is, it is great to have you today, man. 

Thanks Peter. I appreciate that introduction and I love how you said that, uh, ADD and ADHD are, aren't a curse and uh, my Mother has actually always referred to it as the gift. 

Yes. Your Mother is a very smart woman. That is exactly what it is. It is, it is a gift   We look at it aligns or just because it's different doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, and that I've been, I've been living that life for four years. Um, okay. I just want to get that away, 668 pounds? Dude, that's like, that's, that's damn that's impressive, that is pretty impressive. 

Yeah. I think, um, you know, it's funny when you, when you're doing it and you're, you're in there and you're training for it and the load kind of, you know, it's not like I woke up one morning.  It was just like, wow, that last workout was really good, I added  300 pounds on my squat. You know, this was, you know, a decade and a half in the works. 

Of course 

Um, and so you kind of lose perspective on it. And then now, looking back, I mean, I, I'm still lifting, I would still like to do another meet. I've kind of been battling a few different injuries and whatnot, but I'm looking back, I'm like, damn, I was bad.  I was bad. You know? Like, um, so yeah, it was definitely a very, very, very proud moment in my life.  was, was that one.

I’m sure. I think one of the reasons I hate Facebook so much is because it shows you the bad times and it also shows you the really great times. It's like, hey, look at, you, look at how hot you were four years ago, you f’ing fat ass now, you sit there and eat that pizza you know, four years ago, man, you looked awesome. 

So I definitely, definitely can be the unfortunate reminders, but, um, you know, it's, it's all everything we go through, uh, whether it's good or bad kind of shapes us and makes us how we are, so, um, I'm grateful for the good stuff, but I'm also grateful for the bad stuff because in the end, the bad stuff may be better.

Oh, Amen, I'm a huge believer in failure. I, you know, I won't hire anyone, I won't work with anyone that hasn’t failed before, you gotta learn from it. So we were talking offline, you know, just this morning… so I have a great trainer. He, he, he's an equal ops and I've been working remotely with him the better part of a year.  I turn on FaceTime and I have a mat and I have my kettlebells and I have my, my, you know, my foam roller and, and we've, we've had great workouts, and I've actually gained a ton of muscle this year because when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, right. So, you know, kettlebells, that's what I got, that's what I've been using and, um, I was exhausted this morning and I, I woke up and I texted him like, you know, My daughter was up last night. She wasn't feeling that hot, so I didn't get a lot of sleep. Can we move this to this afternoon? Or maybe we could do this like tomorrow or something like that, and he just texts me and he's like, no, let's do it now. I'm like, “Oh, you dick, right? but he was actually 100% right, because it wouldn't have happened later right?   So, I mean, I think one of the first things I want to talk to you about is, you know, you to train for competitions, you don't just decide, Oh, I'll train, I don't even want to train today. That's, that's dedication, right, and I’m sure there are days when you wake up and you're like, man, I don't want to do this. I want to stay in bed or I want to eat that pint  of Rocky Road or whatever, talk us through that process. 

Yeah, so I think, um, I talk about this a lot actually in terms of fat loss.  Um, uh, one of my big passions is kind of looking at people who are able to lose weight and keep it off, cause they're kind of unicorns, to be honest, if we're talking about weight loss more than three years, um, for the most part, you know, 80 to 90% of people will not lose weight and keep it off over a three-year period.  So, um, one of the things that they found,  that the people who were really good at that, who were able to do that, uh, one of the biggest character traits they had was what they call it Low-Recency. Now, recency is basically a measure of how much you value, uh, short-term information versus long-term information.  Um, so for this, for the purpose of this, you can kind of look at like, um, delayed gratification, it's not the same thing, but for the, for this discussion, it kind of is. So it's like you just said, OK, that, that extra, you know, sleep in, you know, that extra bowl of ice cream or, or whatever it may be, that's going to make me feel better in the short-term, but what is my long-term goal?  And does that fit my long term goal? And I'm not saying that you should never sleep in, I'm not one of those people. I'm also not saying you should never have ice cream, that's not what I'm saying, but I'm saying, you know, if it's not going to fit within your calorie goals or that sort of thing, like, what do I value more?  Well, I value one thing I've always been really good at now. I wasn't always good at it, but I've gotten, I've become really kind of a bad-ass at it is,  I will watch a blade of grass grow in terms of my goals. I, I, I don't care if it takes me five years. I, if I am confident that I know if I have this process of how to get there, I'm confident that if I put the work in, I will get there.  Now that the problem becomes... is, you know, when we first started going, we talked about some resolutions, right? We're really motivated, like we're fired up, you know, this and that. Well, let a few weeks go by and some work stress creep in,  you know, um, you know, some emotions like breakups, all that kind of stuff, all of that stuff can derail you is actually you just talked about in a systematic review of people who lose weight and keep it off.  Um, and so... what, what, what does that mean? Well, you experienced it today, you didn't feel good, um, you didn't really want to do it, and I'll say this a lot to people I work with, or, or people my team works with, because I have a team of coaches now, or people who use our nutritional coaching app. Um, I'll say, you know, it doesn't have to feel good.  It doesn't always have to feel good, you just have to do it. Okay. Now, again, I'm not saying you can never have a day off, that... that's not it, but you have to be careful because the one day off can start to spiral. You know, if you're, if you've been hitting it hard and you know, you're a little bit more sore than normal and you feel like a rest day could be productive so that you can have better workouts later in the week, that's a productive rest day. But if you're taking a rest day, because you're just not feeling it, or you're just not motivated, that sort of thing, you have to be really careful because that can kind of start to spiral over time, and usually what happens is that once you get back into it, once you actually get through that, that barrier of, oh, I don't want to do this and you start, you actually feel fine.  So I, Peter, I actually had the same thing yesterday. I got like, I had some like, business stress and some other stuff, and I got like two or three hours of sleep that night. I just did not feel good, and. I thought about missing my workout. And then I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna, I'm just going to go in and just, just kinda go through the motions, right?  Like, I'm not going to expect you to big PR’s or anything, but I'm just going to warm up and we'll see what's there, right, and you know what happened? I actually had a pretty good workout and that doesn't always happen like that. But I think David Goggins says it like, you know, I let mediocrity think it's going to win.  So. I'll just do a little bit, you know, and then when you get into it and the blood gets moving and you get kind of in your flow, a lot of times it ends up being better so I always tell people like, don't rely on motivation to keep you going. Motivation is like nitrous oxide on a car, on a race car, right, it will help you go really fast over a really short period of time, but, uh, dedication and determination and perseverance, that's your gasoline. That's, what's actually going to take you places. 

That’s a great, that's a great thought. I mean, there's also the, the, the premise that what was the quote? Um, you can't wait for your body to say, it's ready. The mind has to be ready and tell the body it’s ready. 

Yeah. I mean, I tell people if you're waiting for the perfect time for, to go after your goals, there's never going to be a perfect time. And one of the things I always, I always fall back to is I'll say, listen, you know, a lot of people have different challenges.  You got three kids, you're a single mom. You’ve got, you know, whatever. Maybe you have, you know, some kind of learning disability or you have a physical disability  totally get that, you know, not everybody in an ideal world, we'd all start in the 50 yard line right? That's not how it works. Some of us start on the other team's one yard line and some of us start in our own one yard line, right. Um, but you have the ability to, to win, to score and no matter how bad you've got it, I'm almost certain that somebody came from worse and did better with it. So it is possible, 

Well I mean, I think that's an interesting point because you know, the, especially what you said earlier about the premise that, um, you know, it tends to spiral.  I, a lot of times ADHD. ADD and  things like that are, are, are very, very close to addiction, addictive personality  and things like that.  And you know, for me, I know I have to do what's… “I call it playing the tape forward” you know. You know, okay. I don't really want to get out of bed. How am I gonna feel in 12 hours, right? Let's say I do sleep in, and then I go to work and whatever. Well, I've slept in now. I don't have that dopamine hit that I was hoping for, and I'm a little slower I'm going slower. Probably haven't had the best meetings or gotten them the best work done. Well, I haven't got done. That's worked. I'm probably a little pissed off, and how do I usually rectify that? Well, now I've ordered a pizza. So that, that one decision. right, decided to sleep in when I didn't really need to,  has ruined a day, right. And now, well, it's ruined a day. Well, now I'm really pissed off, I might drink.  Well, if I drink what's gonna happen tomorrow morning, right?  And the next thing, you know, three weeks later I've gained 20 pounds.  

That definitely happens, and I think, you know, one of the things people ask, like, how did you, like, did you, were you born with this mindset or did you have to cultivate it?  And you know, I'll give credit to my parents. I really had great parents in terms of, you know, like believing in me and pushing me, and we didn't, we didn't have a lot of money or anything like that, but my parents were hard workers and I saw that, and I think that that was very important for me. Um, but I didn't have a lot of confidence growing up, and so how do you cultivate that? Well, cultivating, that was honestly just setting like little goals. and, and hitting those goals and then setting ones that are a little bit bigger and achieving those,  and the ones that are a little bit bigger, and then you start to hit some setbacks, cause when you, when you have small goals, you have small setbacks, but when you have big goals, you have big setbacks.  It's usually pretty proportionate, and so, you know, I was able to grow my confidence in proportion to those goals I was hitting. And then what really helped me gain confidence was overcoming setbacks. When I started overcoming setbacks. And especially when it was set, when there were setbacks where other people were telling me, Oh, you're not going to be able to get past that.  When I got past them, that started developing an enormous amount of confidence in myself, and if you asked my wife, she would say, I almost have too much confidence in myself because, you know, she's like, you think you could just get through anything. So, um, you know, but that takes time to cultivate. 

And one of the things I, I.  somebody asked me the other day, like, how do you know, how do you fit so much in like, what do you, what do you do? Like what's, you know, and there's no, there's no like true hack or anything like that. Like that, that doesn't exist. But one thing I'll say that I, I don't do, is I don't use the snooze button. I don't hit, I don't hit the snooze button once my, I... if I need to, if I need 10 extra minutes, I'm going to set my alarm for that 10 extra minutes, like I'm not going to hit a snooze button because honestly, the sleep you get during that extra 10, 20, 30 minutes is not even any good, and now you set yourself back in terms of time, and you also know deep down in your heart, I had the chance to get up and get after it, and I didn't do it. So I think one of the things that you can start out with for just like a little small, tiny win, like a micro win, is dedicate yourself to, you know, for a week, you're not going to hit the snooze button. You're just going to get up and get after it. And you know, when you do that, even if you get up and you feel terrible, you might feel terrible, but at least mentally you say, you know what? You got out of bed and you started getting it done.

90% of the time,  the, the mental breakthrough of, hey, I did that. I mean, look, I mean, I, I, you know, my, I, my trainer FaceTimed me this morning and I'm like, hi, he's like, all right, let's do it. I'm like, shut up. Just, just talk slow. I don't want to talk, you know, but by the end of the workout, I'm like, all right, you're right, thanks, whatever, shut up. You know, and it was, I mean, it's like, it's like, I turn into Archer when I'm with them. I'm like, “Hey, shut up” You know, but he's on it, he’s right? I did it. I felt much better, and my day has been that much more productive right?  It's a lot of what you're saying goes into the premise that I've set up, um, uh, rituals, not resolutions, right? You're not gonna lose 20 pounds the first two weeks of... you know, of a new year, but if the ritual is “get up and go to the gym four times a week,” that's accomplishable, right. 

For sure, like I said, I just got done reading a, a big systematic review, uh, ironically, uh, kind of, if I can pull up my own ego here, the, the researcher who published it actually said that my book inspired them to, to do their PhD, which I thought was really, really cool.  Um, They talked about rituals, uh, in terms of a, what are some commonalities amongst people who lose weight and keep it off. And part of that is reinventing their identity because part of their identity is tied up in their old habits and behaviors. And a lot of people want to still hang on to those, but transition into a new body, new health, and that's just not the way it works, you know, if you want to, if you want to shed your skin and go through a transformation, like it's truly going to be a transformation, because if you don't transform internally, any external transformation you make, is  just going to be short-lived. And so you’re talking about habits and behaviors, uh, one of the things that shocks people, when I tell them the data, there are no studies out there in terms of like meta-analyses, which are basically studies of studies, that show that there's one diet that emerges as superior for weight loss, all diets, in terms of long-term weight loss tend to be pretty similar in how much weight loss they produce, and they tend to be pretty similar in adherence level. But what does bubble up in terms of people who lose weight and keep it off,  is a series of habits and behaviors like cognitive restraint. Self-monitoring. exercise, uh, those sorts of things that low-recency, like we just talked about it’s habits and behaviors, because if you don't change your habits and behaviors, knowledge is nothing without habits and behaviors.  And I'll give a great example. Um, you know, so what ends up determining weight loss is calories in calories out, right? I mean, that's it. Now people will argue this, this and that,  alot of that's because, people don't want to take responsibility because that's calories in calories out. There's an inherit responsibility in that.  And people say, well, that's too simplistic to explain all this just because the answer is simple, doesn't mean the execution is easy. OK, like a great example. Is saving money. I don't think anyone's going to argue that in order to save money, you need to earn more money than you spend. Now you can say things like, well, but you know, interest rates can fluctuate and you know, your income can fluctuate if you're an entrepreneur and your investments can fluctuate and your expenses can pop up that you didn't plan for all of that's true.  That's all true, but it doesn't change the fact that in order to save money, you need to earn more than you spend. But why don't people like keeping a budget? Because if you keep a budget, if you have to actually look at what you're spending money on, then you have to admit the fact that dang, I spent $1200 bucks on eating out at restaurants last month, I could have saved that.  And people don't want that, a lot of people don't want that... kind of accountability, so it's, it's all about revamping your habits and behavior. So, you know, it is calories in calories out, but just telling people to eat less and move more, that doesn't really… that's not really helpful information anymore than it is to say, well, just earn more money or save more money or both, Or earn more, spend less, you have to change their habits and behaviors, right, because all that stuff, we are, we are governed by our habits and behaviors, and a lot of the stuff we do during the day is just completely autopilot, we don't even think about it. 

Yeah. It's very true, and I think that, that, what's... what I find fascinating about that is, that is that we not always tend to fall off the wagon for reasons that at the end of the day are kind of pointless, right. I look at it along the lines of, OK,  I was pissed off that X happened to me.  Is eating that pizza, going to somehow go back in time and prevent X from happening, right? And what else can I do instead of that? I remember the day that I got…I had gotten into a huge fight with my ex-wife and we were great friends, but whatever. This particular day, we had a huge fight. And I was walking home, and I was so angry, this is ridiculous, and in my head I’m imagining the meal I’m gonna order from… wherever, and i get home and just, I’m like you know what, let’s just go on the tread…. on the Peloton, let’s just get on the bike for 45min, and if you still want to order that meal, order the meal. Had one of the best... strongest rides of my life, right? Anger, anger, fuels rides with the best rides. And, um, you know, and, and, and sure enough, I get off, I have all the dopamine, all the serotonin, all the adrenaline, I'm not hungry and I don't do it.   I'm like, it was the same exact thing. Both of those would have led to my feeling better, but only one of them was healthy. 

Right, and that's, you know, that's almost like a cognitive rewiring right there. Just a different way of looking at things. I mean, if you want to look for it hacks, I mean, that's a hack right there.  Right? You, you recognized. Okay. And I,  this is huge. So I've talked to, um, a lot of people who deal in the psychology of eating, uh, because you know, people make a big deal about hunger, a hunger., you didn't mention it... hunger once in there. 

Right, right, right. 

This diet makes you feel less hungry, then I'll tell people.  Yeah, but you're assuming people only eat because they're hungry. That is a small part of why human beings eat. There are social cues, there are environmental cues, emotional cues. And especially if you've tied  you know, certain emotions. And it sounds like where you came from that stress emotion would be accompanied with, you know, some sort of food reward to try to make yourself feel better, right, so what you've done is actually re-wire that response to where, okay, well I can go exercise, right, and that totally changed it. And so it's kind of like, uh, you know, some people say people who talk about like spending and whatnot, uh, they say, you know, before you make any purchase or, you know, a big purchase, let's say give it 24 hours to sleep on it, and if you know, 24 hours later, you still feel the same way, then OK, go ahead and buy it. So you just did that. You said I'm going to give myself 45 minutes, and if I still feel this way, then I'll go do it. 

CBT is an amazing thing.  a good friend of mine, an ex-girlfriend of mine is a CBT and DBT, a therapist, she's a psychologist, and, um, you know, she swears by it and she works with it, it’s  an amazing thing. Being able to rewire their brain and think differently. It's just, it's just a gift. No question about it. 

Absolutely. I mean, that's how they treat, uh, that's how they treat a lot of people with binge eating disorder is they'll they'll, they'll a lot of it is because, like we said, we're on autopilot a lot of the day, right? Because it takes some of us with our jobs, it takes a lot to do those jobs and then you have to like, for survival, you almost have to go on autopilot for certain parts of the day, right? Because being on and making decisions, I mean, there is such a thing as decision fatigue, so you have to rewire those autopilots because a lot of people, when they overeat, it's not being even glutinous or anything like that, it's simply, “I didn't even realize I was doing it.” You know, I've, I've been around people who had binge eating disorder so bad that, um, they, it literally was like a blackout episode, but, you know, they wouldn't really come out of it until they had finished, and boom, there's 3000 calories gone, you know? And so I, one of the first things is, and I'm not a psychiatrist...psychologist, so I don't want to, you know, this isn’t my area of expertise, but this is my understanding for what I've heard them say, is identifying those emotions, so.. you... that's exactly what you did. You identified the emotion first, and then you said, okay, “What can I, what can I do about it? All right. Let me, let me feel my feelings, let me, you know, do something to occupy my time and then let me see how I feel.” But that is… that's like you said, that CBT right there.  That is exactly how it works. No question about it. 

Awesome. Layne. I want to be respectful of your time. How can people find more and how can they find you? 

Sure, so on most social media platforms on Layne Norton, PhD (@biolayne) • Instagram photos and videos. If you follow me on Twitter, I use colorful language and I don't sugar coat., so, um, if your feelings get hurt easily, you might want to follow me somewhere else.  But, uh, and then my website is Biolayne  I have a, uh, you find most of my stuff there, but. I have a nutritional coaching app called Carbon Diet Coach, which is phenomenal. Um, again, you know, if somebody, you know, can't afford a trainer or a personal nutrition coach, it's an extremely helpful app that will literally coach you for nutrition based on your goals, your individual metabolism, eh, you know, lifestyle, all that kind of stuff and dietary preference, and then a few books out there,  https://www.biolayne.com/fat-loss-forever/  one I mentioned, um, you know, those sorts of things, but you can find most of the stuff that, uh, that I do and the stuff I sell on my website Biolayne. 

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on Faster Than Normal today, I really appreciate it. 

No worries, thanks for having me.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

So I use Brain.FM all the time and many of you do also! Today Dan rejoins us to talk about some of the new research they’ve been doing with the help of grants, benefitting those of us with ADHD/ADD/Neuroatypical, new studies exploring neural phase-locking and how business is going in general. You may improve your focus AND get 20% off by using this special link to BrainFM with the coupon code: FASTER  Enjoy!

A little more about our guest today:

Daniel has been in love with technology- and its potential to positively impact the world- for as long as he can remember. From building websites when he was 13, starting a design and advertising business at 18 and driving $2MM in revenue for multinational brands as a director for a boutique ad agency, he has truly been at the forefront of how technology can exponentially grow successful businesses. One of Brain.fm's first users, he called the company 12 times before they agreed to bring him in for an interview. When he did receive an offer, he jumped at it (even working for free for the first few weeks). He eventually moved up to Head of Technology, and is now the CEO. As CEO, Daniel is constantly striving to build a company that can not only change the world through music, but also be one of the best companies for people to work for and grow with. Daniel has visited over 20 countries across five continents, with plans to set foot on all seven (including Antarctica).

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Dan Clark discuss:

1:10  -  Intro and welcome back Dan! 

2:24  -  For those who don’t know; tell us about Brain FM and describe what it does?

3:46  -  So since our last talk in 2018, how has the company grown, or changed? Ref: Checkout our first interview w/ Dan

5:10  -  On the studies Brain FM are conducting about using it for pre/post-op and how people are now able to wake up twice as fast from anesthesia – tell us more about that study! 

6:41  -  On how Brain FM is a tech company that respects & uses science, using it in the right way 

7:54  -  What has Brain FM learned to help people focus & stay calm, amidst the craziness of where the world is now?

9:15  -  On the benefits of using headphones, just in general 

10:00  -  On creating helpful habits for maintaining a good a mental state w/ the use of tech

11:12  -  On developing daily rituals

12:50  -  On the grants Brain FM have enabling them to use music for ADD/ADHD and Neurodiverse brains specifically

15:00  -  On the importance of music memory and its ability to distract the brain in one way, allowing better focus in other ways. Ref: for those of you too young to remember this song from “St. Elmo’s Fire”

17:53  -  On the importance of taking the time to learn your brain & how it functions, just like you take the time to learn how to use anything else important in your life & your pursuits 

19:07  -  Tell people how they can find you and get more info on you?  DClark on INSTA is kind of the only place and those are private so; it’s all about BRAIN.FM with Dan right now. You can find THEM @BrainFM on Facebook  and @BrainFMApp on Twitter and INSTA

19:50  -  Dan Clark, thanks so much for taking the time being on Faster Than Normal, I appreciate it.  Guys, as always, Faster Than Normal, if you liked what you heard drop us a review.  We appreciate you guys being on the podcast , we appreciate people listening. We are, as far as I can tell, one of the top, if not the top ADHD podcasts out there, so I love that, and that was all because of you guys, and I am eternally grateful. If you have a guest that you think might work, or maybe it's you, someone you know, You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. We would love to hear from you guys, uh, it thrills us to no end when we get notes. Also, one final thing, if you have the book, if you've read Faster Than Normal the book, go on to wherever you bought it https://www.amazon.com/ or https://www.audible.com - whatever, drop us a review, you'd be amazed at how those reviews really, really help. As always, thank you for listening. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We are looking forward to seeing you next week, you guys take care.

20:13  -  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the first episode of the new year that I am recording here in my apartment, because we all know that Coronavirus does not respect a calendar, they don't have little day planners and say, “Oh, it's 2021, we can stop doing anything.”  But that being said, welcome to a new episode and a new year of Faster Than Normal.  Of course, now that I think about it, you're probably hearing this in March, so whatever, screw it. It's good to be back. It's good to see you guys. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to be talking to you again. I'm glad to have my guests. My first guest, my first recording guest of the year, is someone I had back on 2018.  Dan Clark. Dan is the founder of Brain.fm and Brain FM. I, I use them religiously. I put music on, I put audio tracks on it my headphones, when I'm working, when I'm trying to sleep, um, it's been great. During the past year, when you know, you go to bed and, and something stupid has happened in DC  and you wake up and some more stupid shit has happened in DC.  So it is, it has been very useful to actually keep my sleep going. Dan, welcome back, glad to have you again. 

Glad to be back. 

You're still in New York, you’re surviving, and you're, you're still alive with the family?  

Surviving and thriving. Yeah, um, you know, we, uh, we're, we're not giving up on the city and, uh, you know, it's definitely coming, coming back stronger than ever.

I agree. I mean, being born and raised here, I could not agree more. Of course my, my upstairs neighbors have decided this is the perfect week to redo their floors. And so I'm, I'm, I'm questioning my, my, my decision to stay here, but I'm sure that'll stop as well. Anyway. It's good to have you mentioned, Dan, Dan has an interesting background, Dan, um, you know, he worked in advertising, he worked for multinational brands then.  He was one of Brain FM's first users. He called the company 12 times before they agreed to bring him in for an interview, and then when he received an offer, he worked free... for free for a few weeks, eventually moved to the head of technology, and now.. he's now the CEO. And for those who don't know what Brain FM is, Dan, tell us a little bit, cause I mean, I just, I'm a, I'm a huge fan, but I won’t do it justice, so tell us what it is. 

Yeah, sure, so at Brain FM, we make functional music to help you focus, relax, and sleep better. Uh, what we do is we combine science and technology into music you'd actually like to listen to, and we're putting in rhythmic pulses that create patterns that emulate, uh, the patterns that you naturally have in your brain when you're in certain mental states.  So focus relaxed or asleep and by listening to the music with these certain patterns, your brain starts to mirror the music, which allows you to shortcut into that mental state and then stay there as you’re using the product. 

And I can tell you as a user of the product, it is, it is hugely, hugely beneficial.  It actually helps me. Uh, when I sleep, I probably use it at least twice a week. You know what? I use a lot, I use it when I'm not sleeping in my own bed, which over the past nine months, it hasn't been that much because you know where the man to go. Uh, but other than, you know, when I was on planes and stuff like that, or when I was in airports or, you know, having to crash in hotels, whatever, you know, but you know how much I travel, I was using it religiously.  And it was, it was, I think it was something along the lines of it...it made me feel like I was home, right?  And it took any of the pressure of where are you, what you are doing, off, and I just, I was able to fall asleep and for someone with massive ADHD and sleep apnea, you know, that's a really good thing, so, I mean, I'm a huge fan.  Um, tell us about, so, so last time we talked to you was I believe 2000….I want to say March of 2018. So it's been almost two years, um, has the company grown? How's it doing? 

Yeah. Great questions. Um, the company has grown pretty significantly, um, we've probably grown over a 100% since we’ve talked. Um, but what we're doing now is really just getting ready, um, for, for growth. Um, we've done a lot of really interesting things which we can explore. Um, one is, you know, continuing our ADHD studies, um, which is, you know, we have grants for, to, to validate that we can be an effective treatment, um, to help, you know, other treatments that people are doing.  We've done other things where we're taking the same technology and we're doing it with people that are going through surgery. So pre and post-op, and we're finding through some of our pilot studies, um, people are waking up twice as fast from anesthesia. Um, and we're also, you know, creating systems for enterprise companies as well, so we're really, um, spreading the foundation to build and grow on. And, um, you know, it's been really interesting, especially with this pandemic where people's whole lives have changed to somewhat, and they've been really looking for tools to be able to help them keep their same level of productivity or their same sleep patterns, and like you were mentioning, and we've had a lot of people, gravitate  towards, um, you know, tools like Brain FM. 

So let's actually talk about that for a second. Cause you mentioned, you know, that it, talk to me first about the fact that people are waking up twice as fast from anesthesia, that sounds... like really, really awesome.  Talk to me a little bit about that. What kind of study? 

Yeah, it’s really exciting.  So, so, you know, what's,...what's really cool is the idea of functional music has been around forever.  There's binaural beats and isochronic tones.  We’re a different approach called Neuro phase-locking, um, and the... the cool thing is that there's actual real science that is happening in your brain, right?  So, kind of like when you shine a light bulb in someone's eye, it contracts because of an outside stimulus... that's what's happening in your brain, when you’re listening to Brain FM. We're actually aligning the functional networks of your brain to communicate more effectively. And that is the reason why people are waking up from anesthesia faster, was because of the physical effect that we're having, um, on people. Um, so it's, it's really exciting because not only can we help people in their regular life, but we've stumbled across this possibility of helping people in, you know, alternative settings. Um, and it's very exciting because if we can help people, um, you know, wake up faster, there's a lot of really great stuff there, um, but there's even more really interesting stuff pre-surgery, where if we can lower your blood pressure before or during surgery, we might be able to, um, you know, help cardiac arrest and things like that. It's way too early for us to tell, um, but it's fun because we're, we're basically starting to see that the real science that we have in our product is, is, um, an effect that's not only effective in focus or sleeping, it's, uh, effective in much more areas. 

That is amazing work, and I love the fact that you're a technology company that's actually respecting the science and using it the right way, I think that's fascinating.  I remember when I first interviewed you, um, I was, I was, uh, good friends at the time, I still am, with a woman who I also had on the podcast who was a  PhD, um, at Harvard, she was getting her PhD and she couldn't stop raving about you guys.  She heard about you on the podcast and then immediately downloaded and was addicted because it's like, “oh my God, this calms me down as I'm trying to study, right?”  And that was huge for her because she couldn't, her focus was, was, was a big thing, so I love that it's, it's, it's moving on into more science.  Talk to me for a second, about the second part of what you said when it comes down to, um, uh, doing, uh, getting people calm or focus in this ridiculous dumpster fire dystopian nightmare that we're currently living in. Um, you know, I mean, literally they, they, you know, I can't, I have to, I've learned to shut off.  I mean, I always shut off my phone, but now I keep my alerts, my, my news alerts off most of the day, because I go down a rabbit hole, right?  10am,, it’s, you know, a CNN alert needs to forget the James Earl Jones, this is CNN. It needs to come with the tagline about “what now”  right?  And so let's start reading a story, so, so instead of that, talk about what, what, um, Brain FM has learned, and is doing to help people sort of, not only focus, but stay calm and, you know, not want to jump out a window every five minutes in, in this nightmare that we're living in. 

Yeah. Well, you know, it's really interesting. So, you know, our bodies and our minds are made to mirror the environment that we're in.  So I'm sure you've heard sayings, like, you know, the people that you, surround yourself with... the people you are, um, you know, what goes in your mind, uh, you know, where energy goes, attention flows and results didn't follow. I think this is a Zig Ziglar quote, right? 

Right. 

Um, and, and it's all, it's actually true, so what happens inside of your brain is, is, is where you know where your attention is, that's where things like your reticulated activate your RDS RAS system is, is, is looking for, so when you buy a car, and then you see everyone that has the same exact car, that systems like that in place, um, and when you're looking at negative things or something like that, it's sometimes helps us skew to be more negative sometimes.  So it's really important to control your environment, um, and what's really difficult sometimes is, um, you know, having that stuff in your mind and then still trying to be productive, right. One of the easiest things though, that we can do by maybe ... we can't physically control our environment, but we can control our environment through sound.  So, you know, putting headphones on from its own place without even Brain FM, you can really block out, especially with sound canceling headphones, the technology that we have today,  It’s really easy to put yourself in a corner in your house, put on headphones and escape, and then there's an interesting thing where if you add that and then Brain FM with all the science that we're creating, um, what we're finding is people are able to say, okay, no, this is my focus time. Um, this is my relaxed time, and, um, it's, it's very interesting. So when, when this all started, we started doing focus sprints together. so we created, you know, YouTube lives of a couple of hundred people coming together and saying, this is what I'm going to do today.  And from that, we started really learning about how to just develop really strong habits to make sure that we are maintaining healthy mental states, and just a healthy life.  So, you know, one of the things that I started getting into is every single morning, no matter how I feel, I have an iced coffee and I have Brain M playing, right?  Um, I also do a chill session throughout the day, soI'll do it like after lunch or something like that, just to make sure that I'm, um, you know, being able to like, like plug in, and then unplug, and, uh, when we started explaining this and sharing this with people, we found a lot of people were like,   “I don't know what I would do without Brain FM,” especially, you know, having, you know, their, their, their husbands in the same room or their kids, or their cats, you know, I have a cat running around right now, I don't know if you can hear him, um, and it's, it's things like that, that all combined, to creating this habit with technology, to make sure that we are really the ones in control. 

No question about it. I think that, you know, you said you mentioned something about habits and as, since we're at the beginning of the new year, obviously this won't air for a couple months, but you know, everyone says, resolutions, resolutions, resolutions.  I've always been in the opinion that resolutions fail, but rituals succeed and you create rituals by creating habits, right?  And so I'm not going to lose 20 pounds by tomorrow, right? and believe me. I've tried, but what can happen? Is that I can vow to get up a half an hour earlier every day and just try to do that for 30 days and, and, and exercise, right.  What will happen at the end of that month is that I will have created a ritual that will transform into the resolution that I wanted, right? And so music and sound plays a huge part in that, in my, in my experience, in that I know that, you know, I'm a Peloton junkie, as you know, and, and I, I took, um, I had my best output I've had in months the other day, ‘cause it was the greatest showman ride. And I know every song by heart, right?  And, um, well, top of my lungs, right. you know, dying, you know, and my, my, my, my organs are spilling out of my body, but because music can do that in so many facets and so many facets it's creating, you're creating habits and rituals.  And I almost look at along the lines of, I, I, told my daughter, there was absolutely no way we were getting a puppy, uh, during lockdown, which of course means I have a puppy now. And as I tried to train it, it really is just repetition, repetition, repetition, and you get the dog, you know, you get the dog in the habit of going out at 4:30 in the morning to pee... Talk to me about 4:30 in the morning to pee, right?  And so it's the same thing, you know, if that, if you hear that music, that specific type of music, it tells you it's time to chill, it's time to ramp up. So under that, and I think that that more than anything, it needs to be a lot more studies into that. And you have some grants. Well, you're learning.  And you mentioned that you're learning about, uh, what music can do for ADD/ADHD and neuro-diverse brains touch on that for a second. 

Yeah, sure. So we have a, a lot of grants that we've, um, we're currently, you know, waiting to hear back from as well as, um, some grants that we're executing. Um, it's very interesting.  So, you know, we...some of the adaptive technology that we talked about in the beginning with, as those rhythmic pulses and what we're doing is we're adding modulations to sound, um, and what's happening is it's kind of like, almost like a helicopter effect, like <helicopter sound>  and it's in a certain pattern.  That is, um, is aligning those functional networks. What we find in ADHD brains is that that pattern has to be ramped up significantly higher because of the hyperactivity, um, that, that, uh, people with ADHD have. And what's really interesting is when we combine that with this higher level of, um, modulations in the music, what we're able to do…  is help people unlock their flow state very quickly and faster in ADHD brains than we are in maybe normalized brains.  Um, you know, we've, I, and I love your podcasts because, um, you know, it's all about ADHD as a superpower. Um, I believe that with someone that has it as well, and it's very interesting because, um, we're starting to unlock why and, and starting to harness that. So, um, one of the things we just actually released in our app is this thing called the Neural Effect filter where you can actually say, I want high setting, you know, or low setting or whatever, and start taking the technology and control it yourself, and um, people with ADHD, um, click that high button all day because that's exactly what they need to help support them, um, and the really interesting thing is, is part of the reason why Brain FM works so well, um, is not only the, the, the biological component, but because it's actually distracting your brain just enough to help you be more effective.  It's kind of like, taking care of your monkey mind almost. 

Um, it makes, that makes sense. It makes complete, perfect sense. I remember before my parents knew I was ADHD, and I was just a disruption in class, I remember that they would never a punishment for me, it was, I wasn't allowed to listen to music while I worked, and that was the biggest mistake they ever conceivably could have made because I did so well once I had music going in it, even to this day, I mean, I, you know, we all have music memory, right. We hear a song and we think, “oh my God, I remember exactly where I was at that moment. I still remember. I still remember, uh, waking up, uh, I guess my alarm went off, but it was, I must have been like 14, 15, 16. Uh, my alarm went off and I was, I was, I was,uh, it was soft. It was like a Saturday, so they didn't have to wake up early and it was a radio clock radios, and it was, it was the song, um, uh, St. Elmo's Fire,  Man In Emotion by John Parr.  And I remember listening to the whole song sort of half asleep, half awake, and seeing it by the end of the song I woke up and I was like, this is going to be the greatest thing in the world. this level of focus and, and, and, you know, to this day, it's still pretty hard to get back. You know, it there's so much that that being able to take a certain percentage of your brain and just like you said, distract it to do something else, allowing you to focus on the stuff that matters, you know, when you, when you stop and think about it, um, uh, one of the, one of the things about ADHD is, you know, kids get in trouble all the time for speaking out of turn, I remember I used get in trouble for making the, the kids laugh, like being the class clown, and what I learned later in life was, that I was actually trying to give myself more dopamine. Uh, so I could sit down and focus, right? I was actually getting in trouble because I wanted to learn, right. I couldn't stay still. I couldn't because I wanted to focus, but I needed the ... And so, so it's the same thing, being able to distract the brain in one way allows you to focus better in another way, it's phenomenal. 

Yeah. And I think we're just starting to figure that out. Like neurochemically, um, you know, biologically, uh, there's, there's a lot of really interesting things, um, the more we study Brain FM, the more, um, and this sounds weird, but the more impressed we are with, with the, the kind of perfectness of, of the, the system, you can do similar things that, you know, these modulations, you can do it in light, you can do an Vibracoustic. So like by, um, you know, vibrations and things like that, um, you can do it with other mediums, but what's really interesting is your ears are one of the most sensitive parts of your body.  Um, and they can, they can, um, detect, um, frequencies and things way more intense than...than other parts right?  And it really allows you to not, uh, have to like pay attention. It's something that works well with, with what we're doing in our daily lives. So most of us sit at a computer and we have to sit down and work right, and you can't have flashing lights in your face and all that stuff, but you can easily put headphones on and it like aids you and supercharges you rather than taking something away. Um, and it's fun to start figuring this out and, and start making the product better. Um, while we learn about the human brain at the same time.

I think it's the best part is that, is that, you know, the more I start to sort of understand my brain and learn about it and, and I don't want to say biohackers God, that word is so fucking overused right?  You know, I, I don't, I don't need someone to tell me what macronutrients I need to be injecting in my eyeballs or some crap like that, but the premise of just understanding how your brain works, I don't think enough people take the time to realize that, you know, the, the best tools are the ones that you understand completely how they work. I mean, when I became a skydiver, I had to learn every single inch of my parachute because you know, it has that sorta job of, you know, saving my life. And I, you know, you don't want your last 30 seconds on this planet before you impact it, you know, to be what does that thing do? And maybe it should, you know, should they have done that? And, you know, and so you learn and, and, and you feel more confident and safe, right?  I trust my gear. I, I trust my training and my gear, and I think that we all need to spend a little more time understanding our brains and learning about our brains and learning what affects, what, you know, it's something as simple as why I exercise so early. I know that if I do have a better day, right?  I'm not, I'm not a PhD. I don't, I'm not, I'm going to do, uh, you know, a neuroscientist. I don't understand what the chemicals, uh, what their names are, but I understand what happens when I get off the bike, right… and how I feel. And so, yeah, I think more people need to do that. I love that you guys are taking the role in that.  Um, we’re running out of time. Dan, it's... it's Brain.FM, I know that we used to have a, a, um, a, a discount code for you guys, so I'm assuming I'll get a new one from... from you guys, and we'll, we'll hook that back up because I want to start promoting it, we'll promote it on the, uh, on the site and the podcast, but I really appreciate you…. you spending the time.  Do you have, like a blog or do you have a... what's your social so people can follow you and all your, all your exploits. 

Yeah. I mean, so I don't really do tons of socials. Um, you know, I have an Instagram, which is just the Clark, um, which you can find me, but, um, but yeah, I mean, I really putting all my heart and soul and Brain FM right now, and then, uh, eventually I'll have a social life again.

Awesome, I love it, and, and know you, I thought the same thing until I sold my company and no, you, you don't, you'll, you'll find something else to do and you won't have a social life again, it happens. But anyway, Dan, thank you so much for taking the time, guys, this is Faster Than Normal. We love what we do, do, and we love just as passionate as Dan is about Brain FM, we are just as passionate about what we do here. If you liked what you heard, drop us a review, leave us a note, shoot me an email. Let us know who else we should have on the podcast, we're always looking for new guests, we would love that. Reach out any time http://www.petershankman.com/  at Faster Than Normal at @petershankman.  We will see you next week with a brand new episode. Thank you again for listening. Have a great day.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were composed and produced by Steven Byrom who also produces this podcast, and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Chris Doelle is a Marketer, Author, Public Speaker, Broadcaster, Game Designer, and Texas High School Football Historian. Chris was not diagnosed with ADHD until age 45. He simply thought he was just more intelligent and motivated than his cohorts. His doctor sent Chris for evaluation and the results showed the highest reading he had ever seen. When asked how Chris dealt with his ADHD, his lifelong need to make lists seemed to be the glue that has held it all together. He never goes anywhere without a half dozen notepads. Recently, Chris has created two tabletop board games that were both fully funded via Kickstarter. www.FridayNightLegends.com and www.SaturdayLegends.com When he is not working on one of his business ventures, Chris can be found on his property in South Texas clearing land, burning out stumps or working with the builder as they will break ground soon on the house he and his wife are having built. Today we’re talking about how he keeps it all together… Enjoy!

A little more about our guest today:

Chris was a class clown growing up and was always being creative. From writing action-themed short stories involving all his classmates and reading them to ever-growing crowds of interested students to singing contemporary pop songs to the pretty girls several years his senior, he was always up to something unique. He started his first company in junior high school - he built and repaired bicycles. This was quickly followed by a stint selling sports cards and comics. As the computer revolution began, Chris was instantly interested. He was writing code on notebook paper for a year before the first personal computers came out. At the same time, Chris began selling computer software to his high school and training the teachers how to use the machines as a Senior in their class. Chris was neither the most popular nor the loner. He flowed into and out of every clique of students easily. He played football but didn't get involved in any other extracurricular activities other than student government. He is notorious for being the only student to ever resign as Parliamentarian - stating his reason as, "It's a stupid position." His grades were straight C's because he would ace the tests with no studying but never turn in any homework. That balance left report cards showing him to be completely average. Just after high school Chris was ranked #13 in the world in Hacky Sack. He then put himself through college working four jobs at the same time. Before his schooling ended, he has found two people to do two of his jobs as less than he was being paid and became an employer - albeit unofficial. He studied Exercise Physiology and Psychology. In college he began racing bicycles - a love that has continued for decades amassing over 35,000 miles on the bike. Most nights during his 7 years of college however were spent playing Dungeons & Dragons where he was the Dungeonmaster because "his adventures were the most interesting" of their gaming group. Again, Chris did little school work while scoring 100% or better on most exams. If he did study, it was after D&D ended around 2am the night before a test. After college, he had a short stint in "corporate America" building the computer systems for the Greater Houston Area YMCA Association. This position allowed him to regularly support 35 different branch locations training staff, while installing and troubleshooting anything related to technology. The position was at the perfect time for Chris as the entire association, with his lobbying and encouragement, was transforming from just two PCs across the entire organization, to a computer on every desk all connected together by the high speed internet of the time - ISDN. This constantly-changing position was the only reason he lasted so long in a mainstream job. As boredom set in, Chris went back to his first love - self-employment. Chris continued to start, grow and run a wide range of businesses - a tech support company, a video production company, a cabling company, a photography company, a web design company. Most were either sold, closed or rolled into his current company Fresh Media Works - a full service marketing company he has run since 1996. With the exception of the 6 years at the YMCA, Chris has been "gainfully unemployed" for the better part of nearly 40 years. When podcasting came around Chris was already doing live internet radio and became officially the 5th person to publish a podcast. Since that time he has done tens of thousands episodes and hundreds of shows - spoken to business groups and universities about podcasting and it remains one of his great passions. Through his ventures in podcasting, Chris became a major player in the world of Texas high school football. His site Lone Star Gridiron has become the statewide leader in news and information on high school football in Texas. Happily (albeit bumpily at times) Chris married his high school sweetheart after being apart for years. They have four kids and recently become empty-nesters. 

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***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Chris Doelle discuss:

:40  -  Intro and welcome Chris Doelle! 

3:05  -  When you were diagnosed? Tell us your backstory and how what made you different growing up?

5:04  -  On trying a lot of different things, what worked and what didn’t

6:25  -  On lists, deadlines and their importance in his life

7:35  -  On situations where failure to organize w/ lists, etc came back to bite you in the butt. 

7:55  -  On what tech tools to keeping things organized i.e. followupthen.com

9:00  -  On the difficulty of staying busy/finding balance with work and personal life

10:21  -  On being an extrovert with ADHD combined with physical introspective tendencies

11:15-  What drew you to games, and board games?  Ref: https://lonestargridiron.com www.FridayNightLegends.com and www.SaturdayLegends.com 

13:16  -  Tips on working partnerships with someone with ADHD

14:14  -  On finding and maintaining balanced partnerships

15:02  -  On functioning successfully around neurotypicals/what kinds of things changed w/ marriage

16:36  -  Tell people how they can find you and get more info on you? @chrisdoelle on Twitter  LinkedIN  his books on Amazon and at https://boardgamegeek.com/ 

17:06  -  Describe yourself in 15 seconds? 

18:04  -  Chris Doelle, thanks so much for taking the time being on Faster Than Normal, I appreciate it.  Guys, as always, Faster Than Normal, if you liked what you heard drop us a review.  We appreciate you guys being on the podcast , we appreciate people listening. We are, as far as I can tell, one of the top, if not the top ADHD podcasts out there, so I love that, and that was all because of you guys, and I am eternally grateful. If you have a guest that you think might work, or maybe it's you, someone you know, You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. We would love to hear from you guys, uh, it thrills us to no end when we get notes. Also, one final thing, if you have the book, if you've read Faster Than Normal the book, go on to wherever you bought it https://www.amazon.com/ or https://www.audible.com - whatever, drop us a review, you'd be amazed at how those reviews really, really help. As always, thank you for listening. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We are looking forward to seeing you next week, you guys take care.

18:49  -  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter Shankman. Welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal, happy day, hope you're having a great day and hope your world is spinning the right direction. Hope things are chill. Hope you're enjoying life. By the time this airs, it should be,  I don't know, mid-February or so, and I'm hoping that everything by then has calmed down and we're all doing well.  It's the third week of January here, I guess, and we're moving forward here in New York, so I hope you guys are as well, love that you're here. Always very grateful that you've tuned in. I have another great guest, every week we have great guests, this, this week is no different. Chris Doelle is our guest today, and I will tell you all about him.  And if I seem pretty calm, and much more calm than I usually am. in these episodes, I had a ridiculously hard workout today and I'm not sure, but I think half my brain fell out, uh, I was on the Peloton and I had the best output I've had in about 16 months, so I'm frighteningly calm today to the point where I'm like, not really sure if it's, if this is the, I don't know what's going to happen.  Hopefully this returns, I return to normal, cause this is a little weird, but anyway… OK. Chris Doelle!  So Chris is a marketing expert. He makes marketing fun, he gets you more customers, but he's also an author, a board game developer, a podcast consultant, a producer.  Sounds like someone with ADHD who does a lot.  He was a class clown growing up. He was always being creative, he wrote action theme short stories involving all of his classmates and read them to ever-growing crowds of interesting students. He sang contemporary pop songs to the pretty girls, several years, several years, his senior. I'm dying to know how that worked out for you.  He was always up to something unique. He started his first company in junior high school. He got into selling sports cards and comics, and then he immediately hit onto the computer revolution. so I'm guessing he's about my age. He was writing code on notebook paper before the first personal computer came out at the same time, began selling computer software to his high school and then training the teachers, how to use the machines, which I love.  He was not the most popular nor the loner, he flowed in and out of every click of students easily, which is interesting…. children with ADHD, sometimes can't do that. One more fun fact about him, he was once ranked 13th in the world in hacky sack. Chris, great to have you on the show, man. 

Peter, thank you so much for having me, and I have to tell you that I hope you return to normal too.   

A little, little calm, little calm for too many people. So tell me about, tell me about your brain. When were you, were you diagnosed? How did this, how, what, what, what made you different growing up? Tell us, tell us your backstory. 

Sure. Yeah, actually I wasn't diagnosed til almost 50 years old.

Awesome. 

And I just always thought this is how the world works in, in, uh, you know, everything's going all the time with my head, uh, and getting bored and running off and doing something else.  I love that I came across your book and your show to realize that now is the first time in my life, I'm realizing, wow, I'm not all that different, there are people like me out there. So, so yeah, um, I guess, yeah… at a, at a young age, um, I was always writing.  Writing was always my release. I would write, um, and, and you talk about imposter syndrome. I, I would write in elementary school, I'd write my name a hundred times on a piece of paper and come home and hand it to my Mom, and she'd go, what's that for? And I'm like, so you don't forget who I am. Oh, which was insane. But you know, it worked. And, uh, I think, I think the, the big benefit that I had, you said that, um, it doesn't always work well to flow in and out of those groups. I think it worked well because of my Mother. Early on, she was such a supporter, always telling me you can do whatever you want, you're amazing, you're wonderful. So I believed it. I didn't have those doubts that a lot of people with ADHD have. Um, so,, between her and my father who was extremely ADHD, but again, not to diagnose, um, I learned there's nothing you can't do if you try, so I tried everything. 

Tell me what worked and what didn’t, because one of the things about trying everything is that you have some great successes, but you have a lot of failures.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think what worked there was literally realizing that it's only a failure if you don't learn something. So I... I reframed everything and my wife now will tell me I have rose colored glasses. I always try to find the good in everything, the positive outcome, and it's annoying as heck to her.  But, um, but that, that, that's it, yeah. I would fail at things, but, at the end of the day, I would go, okay, is there something to learn from this? Is this something I need to work harder at and go back to, or is it something okay, I've done that move on?  Um, and I became a huge fan of lists. I have sitting next to me, as we talk, a stack of legal pads, uh, there must be 20 of them here each with a different subject, and so every time I think of something, I grab the right list and add to it. Um, without those lists, I'd be lost. 

And you discovered that when??? 

I discovered that probably junior high school, because I realized I can't keep all this stuff together, you know, it, it came and went in, and popped in and out, and I'd remember,  great memory, but there's too many, too much stuff there going on, as you know, to try to remember all of it. 

So lists are, I mean lists are just super important and just as much, they fall into the  same category…. as like having  a calendar, right, and making sure everything you do at any given point, is in the calendar, um, is that sort of, you know, you’re, uh, so if your default is lists, you also have like, does everything have to be written down and everything you have to do has to be like put together and all that?

Well, yes and no. I mean, if, if I want it, if it's something that, um, I absolutely have to do, it goes down the list and it goes on a calendar and gives me a deadline, because as many of your guests have mentioned, and I, I, um, I went through and listened to all the shows, you know, just burned through them, just trying to get it all in, uh, and, you know, the recurring theme I saw was yeah, if there's a deadline, it would happen. So, so that's what I always do. I write it down if you know, I didn't need it, if it was just something like, yeah, sometime I want to do this, then I wouldn't worry about writing it down... I'd do it spur of the moment, but again, if it's important, if it's for business, if it's for a client, if it's for family, it’s got to get written down. 

Right. Have you... had a situation,, tell us about a situation where you, you forgot to write it down or you didn't, or you look at it and, and it came back to bite you in the butt. 

Gosh, that's probably on a weekly basis and it usually involves my wife, sometimes she said just in a passing comment, that I would categorize  in my brain as, “Oh, that'd be cool to do” 

Do you have any (indistinguishable) tools  that you use. Like I said, I swear by https://www.followupthen.com/  Do you have specific  tools that you…. tech tools that you use to keep the stuff flowing? 

Well, I use Google for most everything. So I use Google calendar and I have multiple calendars. I have one for each of my businesses, one for, uh, my wife, one for, um, things...I just, you know, that I have to go to cause I cover Texas high school football. So I have my schedule of places I travel, so that's a separate calendar. I also use the Google to-do lists. Tasks List and it's got multiple lists. So yeah, I do a lot of tech now, but I still rely on these pads 

And you’re doing this all by yourself, no assistant, nothing??

Not yet, although I called Megan and I said, Hey, can you help me? I need, I need what Peter has, wasn’t trying to steal her… although I would in a heartbeat if I could.  

Alot of people have tried, she's very loyal, I’m very fortunate… very loyal, I should probably give another raise. Um, so tell me about, you know, one of the things I read about with you, is you are, you are  constantly on the move, constantly busy. How are you, and I'm sure... I'm sure that the busyness helps you and keeps your, you know, ADHD in check, like, like it does for me. How do you, um, find the balance between staying busy with all of the things you're doing, um, and making sure you have a personal life, I.e. with your wife and, and I mean, you, you, you recently became empty nesters.  You had four kids, you know, how did you find that balance? And, and, and what tips can you tell the audience for finding that balance? Cause that's not always easy. 

And I don't know if this is the right answer for everybody, but the answer for me is, if it involves my wife, It takes priority over everything, so, but she gets it, she understands where I'm at and that I am constantly bouncing here, there and everywhere and crazy ideas and I'm going to run off and do it. Um, and, and she... she's a nurse, so she deals with people all day. I work from home, so I do my marketing. I don't see people, so she knows I need to go out and see people.  She, on the other end, doesn't want to go out and see people, so she's like “go, go, go.” And I think, I think travel helps us. 

Would you say that you are… so you're an, you're an extrovert 100% ??

Yeah. In the Myers-Briggs I'm an ENT J yeah, very much an extrovert. 

Interesting. 

But, but again, I do get, I do get introspective when I'm physical, like, uh, we're working on building a house out in the country. I'm clearing land, burning brush, and I do that by myself and it is like a Zen thing. So yeah, I get very, this is my time.

Understandable. I mean, I think that we all have those moments where we have to do our own thing and only our own thing, you know? Um, I've had to explain that to people in my life in the past, like, Hey, you know, I'd love to see you this weekend, but I've been on for 14 straight days. I need a day.  I need to sit on my couch, for 24 hours, watch King of the Hill and just do nothing. You know, it definitely, it definitely gets to that. Um, tell me about, tell me about….um so we talked about the lists, um, you created board games, right? 

Yeah. 

Is that something that you, you found, you found? what drew you to that? And did you find yourself doing that in part because of ADHD? 

I'm sure I did because growing up when I was in grade school, I used to make up sports related games that I would do with dice and I would play entire seasons of these things. I would go to my Mom and show her the results, and I know it was boring to her, but again, she was so supportive, she'd sit there and listen, yes dear, that's so amazing, that's very cool. And so I've always liked games. Growing up... or not growing up, over the last 17 years, I've run a website called Lonestar Gridiron, which covers Texas high school football, and, uh, in that time have become one of the, one of the big players in Texas high school football media, uh, and so my partner who I've known since junior high school in that, uh, I've been trying to sell him on, let's do a game, let's do a game, you know, because let's take advantage of this high school football stuff.  And he was against it... against it. ‘cause we both have computer backgrounds, it's a lot of work.  And then I said, hey, what about a board game? Would you be up for that? And he said, sure. And it was on. And so our first game was Friday Night Legends, which is, it's a football board game that allows you to play the greatest high school football teams of all time against each other, based on their real stats, so it let's you coach them? Uh, and we sent ..since had….that was the Kickstarter, we, um, then came out with another two years later called Saturday Legends, which does the exact same things for college football. 

I love it, that's brilliant. Tell me how… so you said your partner, when you work with, how do you, what tips would you give someone for working with someone with ADHD?  What have you learned about yourself that you tell people you tell your partner or whatever.

Know your strengths and be clear about your strengths with each other.  Uh, Mike, the, the partner, he is a, he's a numbers guy. He can sit at a desk and crunch numbers all day long and he loves doing it, that would drive me batty.  So, you know, we, we, on our site, we have the most comprehensive list of statistics over a hundred years of Texas high school football. We have all their records, all their coaching records, all the team records, everything you can think of. I couldn't put that together, but I'm the guy that gets out there and goes, hey, this is amazing, come check it out. Yeah. I'm the Steve Jobs, he’s the Wozniak. 

Love it, love it, having met Wozniak I totally, I totally get that, we all need a Wozniak. I think it's fascinating because I think that a lot of people who are listening to podcasts have these great ideas and they do get stuck on that side of things where they're like, I don't know what, I don't have the ability to do the math.I don't have the ability to do the scheduling, whatever. And so yeah, you finding someone is, is probably the best thing you could possibly do. 

Yeah, and that's why I need the Woz for my regular business still. I have it for the high school football,  that's it. 

No question about it. Um, how long have you been married?

Uh, been married, interestingly enough, we've been married for 12 years, but we were high school sweethearts too, so we all, we each went off, had our own little lives, you know, I was the bachelor traveling all over the place and she was the steady one building her nursing career and we got back together.

How, before you were diagnosed, what was it like, you know, did you understand why you were the way you were when it came to, you know, your wife and how did you, how did you function? Uh, when, when we, when we're ADHD, we don't necessarily function the best possible way when we're with other people.  Um, what did you have to learn and how did you have to change? 

Well, yeah, I didn't realize anything was wrong, you know, and I say wrong, it's not wrong because I've always viewed it, thanks again to my Mom's influence… as a superpower. 

You didn’t realize anything was different? 

Different, correct.  Thank you, Yeah, and so I just thought this is the way I'm wired.  I thought maybe I'm smarter than most of the people I meet, but I didn't think anything was all that different, so I thought this is how I deal with things. And again, I created compensations.   My, uh, my office prior to getting married, three walls, were floor to ceiling dry erase board so I would just throw things up, being very visual.  When I’d think of something, I’d jot it down, it was, it looked like mad scientist scrawlings. Um, after getting married, realized I can't have that.  The wife wants the house to look nice, so I have a much smaller, dry erase board and it's more organized. 

It's about the little compromises, right? 

Yeah exactly, and it was worth it. It was tough at first because I'm used to being able to just reach to a wall and start jotting, but of course I can walk over there and jot. 

Tell me how, tell people how they can find you, uh, how they can reach out and get more info on you. 

Well, again, my name since it's spelled uniquely it's Chris, last name Doelle.  You search for that, you can find me anywhere. I'm... I'm on all the socials I'm on LinkedIn. I'm, you know, you name it, uh, really easy to find. You can find me on Amazon because I've got, you know, five books out. You can find me on Board Game Geeks because of the games, anywhere, you just search for me. 

One final question, um,  the Jack-of-all-trades thing, cause I get that right? I do this, I'm marketing ability, you know, how do you describe yourself to other people, right? If you, if you, if you, if your entire life is cats, for instance, and you have a cat blog and you do stuff with cats, I’m a cat person, I write about cats, you know, you do so many things that are not related.  How do you describe yourself in 15 seconds in the elevator? 

I literally just say I'm a marketer because everything I do involves marketing, uh, you know, because none of them would succeed without it. And, uh, other than that, I silo, I talk to people and say, if you know me as a board game guy, we talk about board games and we don't go off on Texas high school football.  We can go off on books. We don't, you know, I silo 

Very smart!  Chris Doelle, thanks so much for taking the time being on Faster Than Normal, I appreciate it. 

Oh you bet, cool. 

Guys, as always, Faster Than Normal, if you liked what you heard drop us a review.  We appreciate you guys being on the podcast , we appreciate people listening. We are, as far as I can tell, one of the top, if not the top ADHD podcasts out there, so I love that, and that was all because of you guys, and I am eternally grateful. If you have a guest that you think might work, or maybe it's you, someone you know, shoot me a note @Petershankman.com.  Follow us on Twitter at Faster Than Normal, @Petershankman, uh, or on Instagram. We're pretty much everywhere. We would love to hear from you guys, uh, it thrills us to no end when we get notes. Also, one final thing, if you have the book, if you've read Faster Than Normal the book, go on to wherever you bought it https://www.amazon.com/ - 

https://www.audible.com - whatever, drop us a review, you'd be amazed at how those reviews really, really help. As always, thank you for listening. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We are looking forward to seeing you next week, you guys take care.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Professor Esme Fuller-Thomson is cross-appointed to the Faculties of Social Work, Medicine and Nursing at the University of Toronto. She is also Director of the Institute for Life Course & Aging.  She has published more than 150 articles in peer-reviewed journals including the New England Journal of Medicine, The Lancet, and Cancer. Her research examines ADHD and mental health, the association between early adversities and adult physical and health outcomes, and disparities in health. Her work has widely cited in the media including the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Time Magazine and CNN. We’re talking about why the number of Women with ADHD are underreported, about the dark side of ADHD, depression, how to lookout for warning signs in your child, and strategies for making a positive difference. Enjoy-

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Dr. Fullerton-Thompson discuss:

1:12-  Intro and welcome Esme!! 

1:53-  Is it true that there is a big difference between males with ADHD and females with ADHD?  Ref: (requires log-in) https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/cch.12380

3:07:  Ref: More Play, Less Problems?? Episode with Dr. Debbie Rhea. LINK Project

3:10-  How ADHD is looked at differently between males vs females and how they act and react with it?

5:38-  Without strategies to manage your ADHD things can go terribly wrong; women with ADHD have substantially higher odds for things to go wrong than men. How do we address this from early-on in a child’s life?

9:00-  On the need of structure and how it’s a key component of managing your ADHD

10:15-  Ref article: The Dark Side of ADHD: Factors Associated With Suicide Attempts Among Those With ADHD in a National Representative Canadian Sample

11:45-  As numbers of suicide are higher than before, what can parents, teachers, doctors do to be aware/on the lookout for signs, and how to move forward once diagnosed?

13:14-  On addiction and depression.  15:18- Ref: Cognitive Behavioral Therapy  Impulse Control

16:35-  Dr. Thompson, how can people find more of your studies of your research? Just type in Fuller-Thompson + ADHD, HERE on Google Scholar, or via https://socialwork.utoronto.ca/profiles/esme-fuller-thomson/

17:40-  Thank you Dr. Fullerton-Thompson! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

18:02-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits!

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey everyone, happy day, Peter Shankman here, welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal, I'm thrilled that you're here, as I always am.  We are going to touch on a subject today, we're going to talk about ADHD, um, it's not as happy-go-lucky as my normal episodes, but that's okay because sometimes they can't all be happy-go-lucky., and sometimes you’ve got to talk about stuff that is, um, a little disturbing to sort of get along and to make sure that people understand all aspects of ADHD, I highlight the good points all the time.  But you know, it's, there are times where they're not so good, and I think we all know that, and so I am thrilled today to be talking to Professor Esme Fuller Thompson.  Um, she's cross-appointed to the faculties of social work medicine and nursing at the University of Toronto, and she's also Director of the Institute for Life Course & Aging. She's published more than 150 articles in peer reviewed journals, including New England Journal of Medicine, at The Lancet and Cancer, her research…. examines ADHD and mental health, the association between early adversities and adult physical and health outcomes and disparities in health.  She's been quoted in New York Times, Wall Street Journal,  Time Magazine, CNN… whole bunch of others. And I'm, I'm, I'm really, I'm honored that you took the time to come in today professor. Thank you so much. 

Thank you so much for having me, I'm delighted to be here. 

So what I found... you, because there was an interesting article, um, that came to my attention and I think,, there were a couple of them.  One of them was in child health care, uh, development, and that was attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, casts a long shadow findings from a population based study of adult women with self-reported ADHD. We don't talk about gender breakdowns that much, um, I, I think no one does really…. does, um, in the ADHD/ADD world, but there is a big difference between, uh, males with ADHD and females with ADHD.

Well, I think women with ADHD tend to be under the radar screen. Most teachers and health professionals are not really thinking about women and ADHD, and you may present a little bit different, uh, in a different way, so the majority of people with an ADHD diagnosis are males, and for sure it is higher in the... among men, but I think because women often present more, um, distractible rather than the hyperactive, they're… they really don't get noticed enough, and our research is indicating that the women with the diagnosis of ADHD are quite vulnerable with respect to a variety of mental health concerns. 

Yeah, I, and I believe that, you know, we had a professor [Episode with Dr. Debbie Rhea] from the  University of Texas on the podcast who, uh, spent a semester in a junior high school, um, giving I think elementary school or a junior high school, can’t remember which one,  giving, um, they changed the, the workout schedule, the recess schedule from 20 minutes a day to 60 minutes a day. And they changed the lunch, the lunch, uh, options from, uh, primarily carb-based to primarily protein based, and they saw a drastic, not only decrease in ADHD outbursts from boys, but addressing increase in, um, girls who were willing to participate in class.  And that, that struck me, that's always stuck with me, you know, we don't, we don't look at ADHD as the same thing. And, and there are a lot of differences between... between male and female, boys and girls and how they, and how they act and react with it. 

Absolutely. So, I mean, there's two things. One possibility is that women with ADHD are doing more or doing less well, which is what our data seems to indicate, but it could also be that if anybody, there's a whole spectrum to ADHD, like there's a spectrum to everything… and it might be that the, only the women who are at the far, far upper end of the spectrum with the most symptoms, are the people that are being actually diagnosed. So these negative outcomes may be more true for men who are at the upper end, but it's just that men along the whole spectrum may have been diagnosed.  Um, the other piece of what you raised that… isn't particularly, um, from my data, but other research exercise,  is so key exercise structure, organization, it just makes life more livable for sure, for people who have, um, impulse control issues and, and, and disorganization, personal coaches, there's all kinds of positive things that can really make a difference because I think these mental health outcomes that we're looking at, are partly because there's a cascade of negative, um, outcomes, relationships, uh, income, uh, that all of these things, if you can't get yourself completely organized. So, um, being physically active, having lots of structure, having some, maybe some personal coaching, there's all kinds of strategies to minimize the negative, um, outcomes related to ADHD and also to be able to maximize the positives, which I know is your major emphasis on this podcast. 

Right. And it really is a question of getting those strategies in place. I mean, you know, there was, there was a study that showed that, um, a much, much higher number, and I wrote about it in, this, in the book a much, much higher number of incarcerated males have ADHD that are just not diagnosed.  And, you know, if you look at that from the, the bigger, the 50,000 foot perspective sure. You know, they do something wrong, they get in trouble, you know,  they, they, they forget about their court date. Well, now there's a warrant out for their arrest, they get arrested, they can't afford a lawyer, you know, and it just, it just goes on and on.  And so.. so looking at the concept of ADHD, um, you know, from things that we don't often notice, right, and, and ADD and ADHD do things we don't often notice is, is huge. And you know, this, the kind of research you're doing is, is, is so needed. Um, I want to read something that, that, uh, from the results on your, on your, uh, study about, uh, adult women, self reported ADHD, women with ADHD had tripled the prevalence of insomnia, chronic pain, suicidal ideation, childhood sexual abuse, and generalized anxiety disorder and double the prevalence of substance abuse, current smoking depressive disorders, severe poverty and childhood physical abuse in comparison with women without ADHD, even after adjustments for age, race, education, and income, women with ADHD had substantially higher odds of a wide range of problems. What does that tell you, uh, that we need to do? How do we start addressing this um, from the perspective of, of at a, at a younger age, teachers and, you know, moving forward. 

Well, I mean, our finding is that there was a very high link between childhood sexual abuse, childhood physical abuse,  and ADHD, both in men and women.  It's just that women were much even more vulnerable than the men. Um, certainly says at a minimum, we need to be protecting these children. So it, that ...that abuse may not have happened inside the household, but children, who are…  have impulse control issues, tend to be a little more vulnerable in the community as well.  They may not be quite as thoughtful about, um, you know, where they're at, what time they're out, those types of things. So there's a lot of concerns even right at step one about keeping children safe with respect to, um, almost all of these outcomes, if the young adult has made it through university or college, they're much less likely to be suicidal, to be depressed, to have anxiety disorders.  So anything we can do to provide an infrastructure, to keep children in school and, and, and, or, you know, in the trades or something, but getting something, um, post high school that gets them a good job because not my research, but others have indicated that the serious debt is associated with suicidality and those with ADHD as well.  So how do we, help people manage their funds, learn... learn basic financial management and organizational skills around that.  So basically from child on up, keeping them in school, having them actually get lots of exercise, um, to kind of keep them saying, providing as much structure as possible, personal coaching, uh, there's all kinds of ways to make life more livable and therefore allow people's strengths to come through.

That's a phenomenal point. I find a lot, almost always, it has to come back and focus on structure... it’s so much, I mean, this is the one thing I realized more and more, the more research I do on this. And again, you know, I'm not a doctor, you are, but the more research I've done on this and the more,...and the more I read and read studies like yours, you know, structure is just such a key component.  And, and I remember when I got diagnosed, I spent the next several years trying to figure out exactly what it meant, you know, I can put most of the times where I went to a bad place or a dark place or, or, or a period of time where it was, where I look at it upon that now as negative, all, a lot of which had to do with, I didn't have any structure.  I didn't have, um, you know, I wasn't focusing my days, it wasn't scheduled. It wasn't organized, it was, it was just, you know, things happen. And, and I guess there's something that, you know,  better scientific way to put this, but when you're ADHD, you know, it tends to be, uh, you tend to find things to do that most of the time or a good portion of the time aren't necessarily beneficial right, and, you know, it's, it's the joke I always make about, I won't do this and it's true. I won't do a speech in Vegas where I have to stay overnight, uh, because I don't, I don't want to be, um, I don't want to be unstructured for 12 hours in Las Vegas. Nothing good is going to come of that, and let’s move a little...  you recently published a study that came out in... I believe the end of December., uh, yeah, December 21st, 2020, um, the dark side of ADHD factors associated with suicide attempts among those with ADHD and a national representative Canadian sample and the results... ADHD, adults with ADHD were much, much more likely to have attempted suicide than those without. 14% versus 2.7%  That's a huge number….. That's a huge,

 It’s unbelievably distressing information. And when we divided it by gender again, what you started with as well, we need to think about women in particular, the women, 24%, one, almost one in four women with ADHD had attempted suicide. Now our previous research has shown almost 50% had thought about it, but luckily likely most people would think about it and never attempt.  So, this is a really very vulnerable population., among men, it was about 9% who had attempted, so we're very concerned. Um, you know, that's that, that's why we called it the dark side, but, um, I I, before we go on, I just want to say... flip that, remember that the vast majority of men, like 90% of that, of the men with ADHD never attempted suicide and 3/4 of women have never attempted, so it's not inevitable at all. I'm just coming at it as a social worker saying, what kind of interventions can we do to make these numbers go down dramatically? 

I mean, I mean, it is, you know, granted 75%, you know, of the, of the, of the population is not {indistinguishable}  There's just not looking at suicide, but it's, it's still, you know, a much higher number than, than those without ADHD, and I wonder as we move, you know, as you look backwards on that, is, is there, I mean, I know that that when I was a kid, I say this all the time, I wasn't diagnosed because it didn't exist, right?  I was diagnosed with sit down/you're disrupting the class disease and, um, you know, I remember some really difficult times for me in high school and I, it, it, never came to it... came close to it, but it never came to that.  And I wonder, are there, what can, what can parents, teachers, doctors do to be better on the lookout for this? And, and I mean, even to be aware of this, right? So say, oh your child might have ADHD. That should start a, a, a, a chain that says, let's look at these things. 

So, um, I think with both women and men, but perhaps even more with young girls, um, part of the problem with ADHD as it can make social relations difficult, right?  It's harder to fit in. There's more likely to be social rejection, and that is very tough, but particularly in your younger years, as people are trying to make their way in life., so the social rejections, so, um, you know, ADHD medication can help calm the symptoms down, but you, but there has to be a lot of guidance and training around social skills, opportunities to socialize and healthy socialization starting at a young age can make a difference.  Um, the other two factors that we found were pretty important, uh, with respect to risk for having had an a, um, an attempted suicide were addictions and depression. So as a parent, uh, uh, you know, as a parent of somebody with ADHD really cau… um, thoughtful and cautious approaches to minimize, um, substance abuse is really key because once people are involved in substance dependence or substance abuse, there is a cascade of negative, negative outcomes of social academic career, life, everything.  So, and then from that, uh, comes depression and suicide, so I think addictions, uh, or avoiding addictions, um, avoiding substance dependence is really key and parents doing whatever they can on that front to help, and as an adult, um, you know, not some people can drink or use substances in moderation and some people can't, and I'm guessing most people with ADHD are on the all or nothing kind of level about it.  

No question about it.

And the other piece is depression. So the rates of depression were very, very high  um, among women, um, just looking at my numbers, but I, you know, it was well over a third, had... almost 40%...  had major depressive disorder and lots of anxiety. So they're really good interventions for everybody, not just those with ADHD. Cognitive behavioral therapy is a calming talk therapy, but it's really designed to help you catch those dysfunctional thoughts.  You know, if you're, if you're giving yourself subliminal messages that I'm useless, I can't do this sort of really negative messages. Nothing that, uh, is going to change that until you start catching those thoughts and reprogramming your brain basically. So it's a very simple, straight forward, uh, intervention.  It can be given in a group setting and it is very effective basically, um, in the general population for every three or four people who take it., and it's eight to 12 weeks, not a big thing. One person moves from depression to, uh, to recovers from depression that wouldn't have otherwise. It is a solid investment of your time and energy.  So cognitive behavioral therapy is one particular type in general that short, and can work with depression and anxiety.  So obviously depression and anxiety are key risk factors for suicidality. The other piece, of course, is impulse control. So if you have a negative thought, which we all do or, uh, would in many people be a fleeting thought, uh, I just want to end it all kind of thing, you know, somebody with ADHD, they may not be able to put that aside, go on and see something better the next day, that.,,,,,,, that's where the impulse control issues come into play. 

No question about it. Um, I want to be, be mindful of your time. Um, doctor, how can people find more of your studies of your research? If, if they, if they're curious, I'm sure they're gonna want to read more. 

So I typically, uh, release sort of media releases on the information. So you can kind of get it all in one page, which works well for most people, including those with ADHD…  So if you just type in Fuller Thompson and ADHD, probably it'll all pop up. Um, we've covered a lot of the research I've done in this discussion with respect to early adversities, with respect to women in particular and suicide, and I have several more papers underway looking at anxiety disorders and also looking at resilience. So it turns out a lot of people with ADHD aren't just free of mental illness, they're actually happy and satisfied with their life. We're trying to figure out the flip of this who's doing well and why, and how can we help more people get there 

What a phenomenal way to end the conversation, because there's no question that we're going to have you back on to discuss that once that research is done.  So Dr. Fuller Thompson, thank you so much for taking the time today, I really appreciate it. 

My pleasure, thank you for having me. 

Guys, you’re listening to Faster Than Normal love that you're here. Tune in next week for a brand new episode. If you like what you heard, feel free to leave us a review on iTunes, GooglePlay, Spotify, wherever you listen to your, your podcasts. We will see you next week with a brand new episode on ADHD and neuro-diversity as a whole.  Stay safe.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Shawn was diagnosed with Asperger's at 42 years old.  After he got that diagnosis, he realized what was up with him, and that allowed him to achieve success in his professional life above and beyond anything he could have imagined. After completely rebuilding several hospital systems as CIO, he became an entrepreneur focusing on entrepreneurial healthcare, technology, around analytics, revenue cycle and clinical informatics. He left corporate America behind hiring nearly 150 employees to create his own neurodiverse workplace culture. He’s been granted multiple patents, created dozens of healthcare analytics platforms, is a well respected speaker and author. In 2019 he sold his company to private equity and is spending the rest of his life, embracing neurodiversity, and the powers in the logic of leadership, personal security, and self-esteem in one's uniqueness. I love that. He's currently CIO of Potentia and CSO/Founder of the Neurodiversity Foundation and that’s what we’re talking about today! Enjoy!

A little more about Shawn:  

Shawn Fry became a successful executive and entrepreneur after being diagnosed with Asperger's at age 42. He found success in his professional career only after he was afforded the opportunity as the CIO of several hospital systems to exercise a great deal of autonomy

 in his role.  Shawn's propensity for detail, hard questions, and divergent solutions produced millions in both new revenue opportunities and cost savings for his employer. His innovative approach to the complexity of healthcare data laid the foundation for his entrepreneurial healthcare technology firms centered around analytics, revenue cycle, and clinical informatics. Through these ventures, he left corporate America behind, hired nearly 150 employees, and created his own "neurodiverse workplace culture. Shawn found that by cultivating

 an environment-dependent upon open, honest dialogue, clear communication, and vulnerability, the workplace culture was more supportive and accommodating to everyone's needs. People were happier, more productive, and turnover rates were 0% after nearly 15 years.

 Shawn is a holder of multiple technology patents, which he utilized to create dozens of healthcare analytics platforms. He remains a well-respected speaker and author on critical healthcare issues. Shawn sold his company to private equity in 2019 and has dedicated the rest of his life to embracing neurodiversity and the powers it unlocks through thought leadership, personal security, and self-esteem in one's uniqueness. As CIO of Potentia and The Neurodiversity Foundation founder, Shawn continues to build pathways for others on the spectrum to recognize their ability. He is a firm believer in "Strengths First."  During COVID-19, Shawn created the Potentia Health Registry (PHR), an information management and communications tool used to mitigate risk and provide early detection of COVID-19. He is now bringing this highly customizable solution to school systems and communities looking to reopen successfully. 

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Shawn discuss:

 :40-  Intro and welcome Shawn Fry 

2:26-  So what were you doing up until your diagnosis at 42, and were you happy?

5:13-  On the others’ perception of Neurodiversity 

6:36-  Failure by assimilation. Neurodiverse “common sense” versus “we’ve never done anything that way before, are you crazy?” The highway is littered with great ideas that have been run over because managers didn’t bother to act on them for fear of what other people would think.

9:07-  On educating others on how neurodiverse brains work, leveraging strengths and breaking down stereotypes.

11:11-  The need to create an audience/creating the space & grace to allow us to DO what we do.

12:45-  Regardless of market research money is going to move the needle; if you understand how to work that system, everyone benefits.

13:30-  On using “reduction” to help neurotypical people comprehend. Ref: Cataloging research at The Neurodiverse Foundation

14:30-  On growing up neuroatypical 

15:11-  On out-gauging IQ tests / the “show your work” mentality of testing

16:27-  You have answers that people probably need to know about! But here’s the thing..

17:00- On Data Science

18:35- Tell us how people can find you?  Via LinkedIn email: Shawn.fry@potentialworkforce.com  www.NeurodiversityFoundation.org potentiaworkforce.org  and @shawncfry on Twitter  INSTA

21:30-  We’ve gotta have you back. This has been phenomenal. It's so nice to hear what you're doing and I love the fact that you're doing it for all the right reasons.  You guys are listening to Shawn Fry, thanks again, we're going to have you back in the new year. I appreciate you taking the time. 

21:44-  Alright guys, Faster Than Normal...as always, we want to hear what you hear. Leave us a review, let us know what's up. Talk to us about what's happening on the street, you name it.   You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. Drop us a review at any of the sites that you listen to podcasts on and let us know if you have any good guests.  Shawn is phenomenal one, if you have any as good as Shawn, we'd love to hear about them. Have a great week. ADHD and all forms of our diversity is a gift, not a curse.  We will see you next week. Stay healthy, stay safe, wear the mask, talk to you soon.

22:08-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits!

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter Shankman, this is Faster Than Normal, where ADHD is a gift and not a curse, and we love that you're here. It's been a week since our last podcast.  So it's always nice to see you guys back. We're recording a whole bunch of them the last week of the year, and so,  this is another one. It has been non-stop all day, we've been talking to so many brilliant people and our guest today is no exception. We're talking to Shawn Fry, we're going to entrepreneurship today.  So Shawn was diagnosed with Asperger's at 42 years old.  After he realized that, after he got that diagnosis, he realized what was up with him, and that allowed him to achieve success in his professional life above and beyond anything he could have imagined. The CIO of several hospitals systems... completely rebuilt them, redid them, then he became an entrepreneur, focusing on entrepreneurial healthcare, technology, around analytics, revenue cycle, clinical informatics. He left corporate America behind, hired nearly 150 employees, created his own neuro diverse workplace culture. He got multiple patents under your belt, you've created dozens of healthcare, analytic platforms.  You're a well respected speaker and author on tons of different healthcare issues. You sold your company in 2019 to private equity. Spending the rest of his life, embracing neurodiversity, and the powers in the logics of leadership, personal security, and self-esteem in one's uniqueness. I love that. He's currently CEO of Potentia and the Neurodiversity Foundation.  Let's talk about that, Shawn, welcome to Faster Than Normal man.

Thanks Peter, thanks for having me.

And now it's great to have you. So what were you doing up until 42. And were you happy?

That was a mixed bag, I wasn’t you know, I grew up...I grew up in Philly, you know, and there was no diagnosis back then, right, I was just a kid….very disruptive, uh, didn’t know how to socially integrate, uh, you know, I either had hyper-focus, or no interest whatsoever. I was voted the laziest person in my high school, which is so comical now to look back at it, you know, people have a tendency to cast dispersions on us when they don't understand, and, uh, what's interesting about my diagnosis with Asperger's,I was a CIO of a hospital system. I was meeting the Chief Medical Officer, he was a close personal friend who knew me. We worked together pretty regularly, even though I'm not really good with people, I'm really good with data so I was able to, there's a long story behind the pathway, of how I got there, uh, another person with Asperger's interceded and got me into the hospital where I could, where I could work and shine and show the skills that we have. Uh, but I, I asked him, I said, Hey, John, can I, should I take some medicine for my ADHD? And he goes, he looks at me.. we were sitting over,  lunch together, and goes, “you don't have ADHD.”  I was like, what do you mean? I said, I'm so hyper, I never slow down. He goes, Nope, you're an Aspbe.  I was like, what's that? He goes, you have Asperger's syndrome. I'm like, what's that? I was like, you know any, he said, Sean, you have autism. I'd never heard it before. And I was 42 years old, gone through the school system, gone through college with, and really struggled in life.  He didn't really know that because he only ever saw me more professionally where I could mask, like I think we all do, you know, we're always told to sit down, hold our hands together. not move around too much

Of course, we’re wearing different masks for different locations. 

Different masks for different locations, right. So I went home and I looked it up. I looked it up on Wikipedia and I tell you what, if you die, if you type into Google right now, what is autism? You will not find one positive thing. 

Right? 

I was pissed. sorry if that’s… you know. I was upset. I was mad at him. I didn't talk to him for two weeks until I started reading more about it. I, I, what my threshold to accept this about myself was, and then it just all started making sense.

Right? 

I was like, I refuse to let the standard definition, the clinical definition, the DSM definition of either ADHD or autism define me. I knew I was a good person. I had something to contribute. I had some success at that point, but I was so afraid to put myself out there, because I knew that if people saw me for what I really was, they would diminish you.  And now it was really the changing point in my life. 

Well, the second you... the second you, when you, I mean, of course, if all you're reading about is how it's a negative, right. of course, the second that, you know, you publicize it, (indistinguishable) The whole world will think that you're a negative because that's what you’re seeing.  

Right?  There's something wrong with me. I have, I have a learning disability, which is, which is, if you look at my history, it's the opposite. I think all of you, if you find one of our hyper fixations, or when (indistinguishable) u know, these are, we are the ones that change the world. I mean, I did it. I started working on problems, my patents were on mathematical formulas and telecommunications. Nobody paid me to do that, nope. I just decided, you know what, this is a problem we're solving. 

Right. 

And I started working on these uh, calculations and because of my, you know, my neurodiversity, I locked myself in a room for nine months and I would only leave on Wednesdays.  Nine months later, I walked out of there. Uh, had solved some of these groundbreaking telecommunications issues, then submitted those for patents. When they got to the patent office, nobody in the patent office knew how to do the math, because nobody's ever worked on the math this way before. and I was just starting to realize, well, because to me it was common sense, right?  How do we structure things? But I didn't do it because somebody paid me. I did it because it was a problem to solve, and... that's what we do. 

I think you struck on something there I'd like to touch on. You know, the premise of, to me, it was common sense, right? You know, I have everything I've ever done in my life, to me, it was common sense, right? But…. but I can't tell you how many times I've suggested something that sounds perfectly normal, and everyone's looked at me like I told them I was a spotted owl, right?  You know, it's that… well, it makes perfect sense, why wouldn't we do it this way? And you know, you get everything from, well, we never do it this way, that's never the way we've done it, we've never done it that way. You know, what's wrong with you? What do they think of us, whatever. But in our heads we're sitting there going, but it works 

Right, you are correct. 

And I think that that's, that's difficult because that's sort of, sort of like it's failure by assimilation, right.  And the respect that if you're sitting there and you're saying, okay, I know this works, but everyone's going to call me an idiot. I don't want to have to deal with that. I'm just not going to bring it up. The highway is littered with, with, great ideas that have been run over because people didn't bother to act on them because they were afraid of what people would say.

Uh-huh That was it, exactly, and again, one of the advantages I have of not being, and I want to talk about how neuro people.. who are neuro-diverse are treated now and to no longer take that stigma. One of the advantages I had of growing up in Philly is you kind of get that little edge to you, right? The people in Philly are tough, the people in New York are tough.  You kind of, you kind of let this stuff bounce off of you, so empowered with that and realizing that I was, you know, these ideas work. After I was diagnosed and realized that I think differently, and recognizing that had value, I started speaking up in meetings. I was afraid to do that before, because you know, first of all, a lot of people thought I was weird.  I don't go to lunches. I don't go to happy hours. I don't do things other people  like to do, but I'm super interested in my work. So I started speaking up about some of the issues both the administration was making in the hospital, and particularly…. what just drove people crazy, I started challenging the doctors… on their,  on the ways they were diagnosing patients, the way the care, the care plans, saying, listen either, there's one of three things, happened here with this patient. You either misdiagnosed them cause they weren't getting better, you provided the medication that can't metabolize, or they're not taking the medication.  Who’s going to follow up with this patient and figure out why this patient’s still sick?  Doctors don't have time for that. As I started analyzing the data, I realized this is a prolific issue. These are things that are still issues in healthcare today, and if you've ever gone to the doctor and he's put you on medication, you're still six, six months later, or things get better.  A lot of times people were put on medications that don't really work. They just get better naturally, these are, these are prolific issues that there's not a field of science  because it is a neuro divergent thought process, that neuro typically, simply don't synthesize. These are the kinds of ways that people like you and I, as you just like you, you're challenging the way people are thinking about, So many, so many issues, and there has to be a form to bring that to the market. And you're doing that and we need to create a louder voice. Our voices, our brains are not compromised. They do, they just run faster and they take more variables into consideration. It's the calculus that we're doing. Everything I do in my world. Everything is a math equation from the total number of times I brush my teeth, and in the weird pattern, which I do it, to how I organize my cereal and my closet, to how I organize my day. We're not just random people, but other people looking at us think we look crazy, but there's nothing wrong with that. It's actually, I, I, I, I'm a strengths first, everything from my foundation to the workforce, we're creating now is about listening. How do we leverage these strengths to people about their deficits? I talk about their strengths. And as they start to believe that, psychologically you start to see effective change.  

I think there's also a, um, a premise in there…. that… I remember everything I've ever started, every company I’ve ever built, and you know, people that, Oh my God, it just seems like I didn't even hear about it yesterday and now it's all over the place…. you might, you know, you got so lucky. Well, yeah, it was also 20 years of acting the way I act and doing the things I do and dealing with it on the says, you're ridiculous for doing this, that brought me to this very moment. Right? And so the things that we do, you know, you wake up, every step you take, every cereal you eat... all that stuff, that's who we are. And the benefit is there. But again, a lot of us are, are, are bogged down by the look of it. Oh, what are people going to think, right. But the fact of matter is, not that we're changing anything, it simply works and we embrace it. (indistinguishable)

One thing I think you're exactly right, but here's the thing. We have to figure out a way to create an audience for it.  have two children on the spectrum, so at least when they grew up, I had an idea of what kind of, what was going on and that began to manifest itself. So you start to develop and create a more creating space and grace for these people who have it, to see how they flourish.  Uh, the greatest experiment that I had, that I'd never realized it was the thing after I left, after I started speaking up in the hospital, I started realizing these, these data problems that were demonstrating how hospitals didn't click the document effectively didn't do follow up correctly. Sometimes they had poor treatment plans, everything that carried over into the revenue cycle, which is where I really made money.  When I started showing them, nobody listened to me until I showed them that these core client poor care plans cost us money. And I took the data and I showed them exactly how much money. And then all of a sudden people started to listen. It's sad that it got down to that, that being right and being truthful was not actually got me, uh, you know, constigated, a lot of pejoratives, but but showing him where the money was is what eventually, while people to listen.

Well, actually it makes a lot of sense because, I mean, I remember even when I was working in the .com boom, right, and then the social media boom, right? We, you know, these, these, these CEOs, they hire these 20 something year old kids to handle their social media, and they convince by how many likes you have, and how many followers have you got?  Okay, great, how does it translate to revenue, and they can’t answer, right, and they’re out on their ass.  It doesn't matter what industry it is. Money's going to move the needle. And so the smart people are figuring out ways to connect the dots. I did some, some work in neuro diversity for a huge, um, uh, uh, uh, fast food restaurant. fast food chain And, you know, they realized that people were coming in and looking at the menu and leaving and they couldn't figure out why. And I spent several days with them going to multiple restaurants. Guys, you have 200 items on the menu. it's,, it's digital display and ads are overlaying it, and I wanted to blow my brains out 30 seconds here. Right? Let's go to this other place down the street. oh look, hamburger, cheeseburger, fries, shake done, you know, and all of a sudden there's a problem that makes sense. There's revenue, right? So the second you apply anything to money. and look, Is that right or wrong? I don't know. But at the end of the day, if you understand how to work that system, everyone benefits.

Right. So in that process and the gap between the time I was 42, I'm currently 56, I had to come up with mental processes, mathematical formulas. And one of those is called reduction. I had to take the thoughts that we think in naturally, and you and I have zero problems thinking up, I track everything you're saying, I track what you're thinking behind what you're saying, you know? So... but when we talk to a neurotypical, it's overwhelming.  They, they, they, they, they, it's just so fast and so furious that they can't follow. And a lot of times they don't want to follow it’s too overwhelming. So reduction means taking these complex thoughts and reducing them down to something…. somebody, something somebody can make a decision on. It's typically one, two or three points, that's it.  So reducing that menu down, is a perfect example of, uh, you know, allowing people to make a decision because you have to take, we have to think in the complex ways and everybody listening to this podcast does that, to translate back down to neurotypicals that you almost need a Rosetta Stone uh, breaking it back down to something they can assimilate and synthesize.

That's actually a phenomenal, a phenomenal way to put it, exactly.

Part of my work at the Neurodiversity Foundation, is cataloging how people think, Uh, I have been a guinea pig since the time I was a child, because as a child, even though I had a really high IQ, I really struggled in school, uh, and they, you know, what's wrong with your kid?  Why isn't he trying? And it got to ...so it  wasn't a problem. I was the first person in my grade...in my school to be able to read. And then, you know, when I was reading, you know, I was reading tech manuals, military tech manuals, and they're run, you know, I'm like, Hey, listen, let me know if you find something interesting.

I love it.

So, we want, there are people think differently and it's never been cataloged. These IQ tests they gave me, eventually, as they did, as they started giving me these tests, I started realizing as we got to the higher range of the score, I was, I was starting to realize in these patterns how they were trying to gauge my intellect.  And I was like, look, I can break it down for you that way, but I can break it down for you. these seven other ways are equally as valid, but you're trying to compartmentalize my thoughts and…

Exactly. I call that... I call that the show your work mentality. 

Oh my gosh.  it’s (indistinguishable) You know, I, I don't look at things like their grades or even their IQ. I mean, you have to look at the types of thought they're capable of. IQ tests are not even designed to measure divergent thought. They're designed to measure conversion/linear thought, like everybody else they're automatically prejudiced against us.  Even though we do exceptionally well, we still score higher, but it still doesn't capture our top end. Most of the great revolutions taken on were by neuro divergent individuals for,,, whether there's Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates. These people of course are all they're all just like us. A perfect example was the, you know, the study on valedictorians,  Valedictorians are generalists. They know a little bit about everything and they know a lot about everything, but they don't really have a hyper fixation like we do. So if you're sitting out there and you're listening to this and you said, you know, whole lot about something, I don't care if it's logistics or supply chain or anything, you probably have answers that people need to know about., and that's why entrepreneurship is something that I try to lead people on because... we are the great entrepreneurs, but we need help if I didn't have, if I, you have to learn to surround yourself with people that can make a difference for you. And one thing that I didn't realize was I (indistinguishable) Uh, and we went on and we just, you know, I never took them.  I never borrowed $1. I took zero seed capital. I just started doing the math once the math was right. I knew I didn't need money. I just wanted to start doing the math for other people. I funded the entire company, which went on to be very successful, you know, making $20 million a year, things like that. Uh, literally on, on something I wrote up in a notebook one day and just started applying it into our data  When I presented it to the CEO, he literally cussed at me and threw me out of his office and told me I was crazy, and don't meddle in that department. The chairs that originally hired me overrode it and said, Sean, go do it anyway. I'll deal with you. You can't be fired. I'll go deal with it. After, when they originally filed those claims, we collected $126,000 when they filed my restructured claims, based on the math, we collected that we kept the $126,000. and got $500,000 additional revenue, and I never worked in that department, but the math led me to the truth. Right... data, data changes everything. but there are people out there, they have these degrees in data science, and then you get these certificates and things. There was no data science when we started doing it, why would I need a degree in data science?  This is a field that we created the neuro divergence out there, you know, just like cloud computing, all these buzzwords. We’re  usually doing it 10 years, 15 years before people ever even try, but we don't get credit for our work simply because it's not… categorized and cataloged by.... we are so far ahead of the curve, typically... we are entrepreneurs naturally. So, how do we parlay that into more success for individuals? And I'd love to answer any questions anybody has on how to go down that road. 

I love that. I love that. Tell us how people can find you.

Uh, the easiest way to find me. I'm on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawnfry/  on the Linkedin…. um, my email address, if you want to reach me for work, is Shawn, Shawn.fry@potentialworkforce.com  Uh, where we're leading a program that takes all neuro divergence, whether your autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and things like that. We're creating, we have contracts in place, our first client was Chevron, our second client was (indistinguishable)  so we, when we started telling people that neuro-divergence, this is not a nonprofit.  I do have a non-profit foundation, where we do all the research, but this is a for profit, you know why? Because we make money for people. We don't want sympathy. And there are people out there that were labeled us as abelists,  and things like that. I hate that, I reject that label. I know there are, there are people out there and listen... I work with people all across the spectrum, nonverbal, nonambulatory, I love them, they're all special people. I love them just as much, but we have, we have a resource that's there to harness, and we become exceptional employees.  Real quick… the first program we started... was my company, I had 150 employees, and when I went on to sell the company to private equity, these Wall Street, private equity firms, they look at everything. And one thing they asked me, he's like, Hey Shawn, where's your files? You know, the lawyers come in, where's your files on turnover. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, where are all the people that quit and you fired, and I was like, well, after 15 years, nobody ever quit. They're like what? I've never heard of that, I didn't even know it was a thing.  So what I did though, was I created a company that worked around my proclivities and inclinations and things like that. I built a company that was designed around me... around my neuro-diversity and my sensory issues. In fact, I don't like to be overwhelmed in meetings and I don't want meetings to last more than 30 minutes unless they absolutely have to.  And it turns out that that actually was conducive, not just for the neuro-diverse employees. And I include people in there with, uh, PTSD. There are other things that make you neuro-diverse people, even people with personality disorders, that don't have integrated brains,  still qualify under neurodiversity the way I define it.  I’m creating an environment that's safe for them, psychological safety being the first thing.  And the first thing I tell people, I invert every equation mathematically, and I reward people for telling me what's wrong for complaining or, you know, the faster you told me that you made a mistake, the more praise you get. And people started having psychological safety. What I recognized, is that their productivity multiplied.  Having that ability, because most of us have been told, slow down, shut up, sit still, you know, Shawn, this is a listen-meeting, not a talk meeting.

Oh, yeah. I've heard that one too. I heard that one too. Awesome, we gotta have you back. This has been phenomenal. It's so nice to,... to hear what you're doing and I love the fact that you're doing it for all the right reasons.  You guys are listening to Shawn Fry, Shawn. really, thanks again, man. We're going to have you back in the new year. I appreciate you taking the time. 

Thanks for having me Peter.

All right guys, Faster Than Normal...as always, we want to hear what you hear. Leave us a review, let us know what's up. Talk to us about what's happening on the street, you name it.  Peter Shankman (@petershankman) |Drop us a review at any of the sites that you listen to podcasts on and let us know if you have any good guests.  Sean is a phenomenal one, if you have any as good as Sean, we'd love to hear about them. Have a great week. ADHD and all forms of our diversity is a gift, not a curse.  We will see you next week. Stay healthy, stay safe, wear the mask, talk to you soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Mim Ochsenbein [Ox-in-byn] has been a practicing pediatric occupational therapist specializing in sensory processing for over 20 years. Her practice has focused on supporting children and families from birth through adolescence, in variety of settings including private practice, early intervention, schools, clinics, and mental health settings. She received a BS in Occupational Therapy from the University of Southern California. In 2012 Mim received her master’s degree in social welfare (MSW) from UCLA, providing new insights into how she can better support those she works with both at the individual and societal levels. She has advanced training in sensory integration and processing, feeding therapy and a variety of other treatment techniques. Mim has always been fascinated by the brain-body connection and the role sensory processing has on our development, ability to thrive, and the potential to derail it all. As the Director of Education for the non-profit STAR Institute for Sensory Processing, she has been gifted the opportunity to impact lives all over the world by providing education to other clinicians, educators, mental health providers, families and individuals who are addressing disordered sensory processing every day and thriving. Mim strives to always learn more and teach better. This is a fascinating episode, enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Mim discuss:

1:10-  Intro and welcome Mim Ochsenbein

2:25-  So explain sensory processing? 

3:35-  So sensory processing does not “just work behind the scenes” for everyone?

4:04-  So, is sensory processing disorder a specific area of the senses that is not processing correctly? Or is it anything having to do with the senses that’s not working correctly?  

4:35-  So 16% is not a low number. Talk about the people you’ve mentioned that get affected by it

5:42-  That obviously makes it even worse in the respect that sometimes it's not just ADHD, you also have the rest of everything else to look at (?)

6:30-  What should parents be looking for? 

8:00-  On identifying sensory processing issues or ADHD within yourself

9:30-  What can people look for, and look inside themselves to realize “Hey, you know, this might be this… it’s not just me being a screw up.” 

10:54-  Is that from a chemical perspective? What is that? Is that Dopamine or adrenaline? 

12:10-  On praxis/developmental coordination disorder 

13:00-  Where can people find out more about your work and more about sensory processing? https://www.spdstar.org  

14:13-  Thank you Mim! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

14:59-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter, Shankman Welcome to Faster Than Normal, I am happy you're here. It is almost the last day of the year. Well, last day of December, we are waiting once the clock turns over to.. ah, next month, I'm assuming it's just gonna be the 13th month of 2020 that we're not actually going to be out of 2020 just yet.  There’s always people saying, Oh, well, you know, it's 2021, it’s gonna be much better. And I'm like, yeah, this is, viruses don't really know how to use a calendar, but that's okay. Anyway, I am going to screw up this person's name, Mim Ochsenbein. How was that? 

Close. It’s Ochsenbein.

Ochsenbein, Okay. I was close enough. We got a practicing pediatric occupational therapist, especially in specializing in sensory…. sensory processing.  Say that 10 times fast. I double dog dare you. Her practice has been focused on supporting children and families from birth through adolescents in a variety of settings, including private practice, early intervention, schools, clinics, and mental health settings. All right. She received a BSC in occupational therapy from University of Southern California at USC.  In 2012, she received her master's degree in social work welfare from UCLA. She's trained in sensory integration and processing feeling, feeding therapy, the variety of other treatment techniques. We're going to be talking about the brain body connection here on Faster Than Normal, which is kind of interesting because everything we do in our bodies when you're ADHD, is doubly centered on the brain.  Why'd you do that? What's wrong with you? I don't know. It was my ADHD. How many times have you said that? Okay, so we're going to talk about that. She's the director of education for the nonprofits star Institute for sensory processing. She's impacted lives all over the world, by providing education to other clinicians, educators, mental health providers, families, and individuals who are addressing disordered sensory processing every day of thriving.  Start off with this Nim. (1:51)  Thank you so much for being here. It is great to have you, explain sensory processing.   (in 20 words or less, hurry up)

Thank you for having me,,, yeah, 20 words or less, super easy. So sensory processing is really like, we all have sensory processing, we all do it. And it's just the process of our body and brain taking in sensory information.  Uh, sending it to the brain, the brain interprets it. tells us what's safe, not safe, important, not important and then we use that information, to have, you know, outputs to do things in the world to create memories, to create action, to be goal oriented. That is what sensory processing is. And it just like many other things in the brain and the body, it can go horribly wrong.

(2:36)  So this is everything from, Hey, that cup is hot, let it go…. to, that truck is barreling down the street and it's going to go through that red light, we shouldn't ah, cross  (everything in between)

Right. Exactly. And it's also like picking up the cup, like how much force to use to pick up that cup, and then, um, you know, how much energy to put into your muscles and which muscles to run across the street, so you don't get smacked by the truck. 

It's fascinating because we don't think about that. We just assume much like everything else. That's something that just happens, but it's not, it's not perfect for everyone. 

No, no, it's, it's not. And, uh, there's a lot of, um, people who experienced sensory processing challenges.  There's like 16% of kids who have sensory…. who have sensory processing disorder, and then there is a big overlap for people who have ADHD. 

(3:29)  Sensory processing disorder is, is a specific area of the senses that is not processing correctly? Or is it anything having to do with the senses that’s not working correctly?  

Yeah, there’s different subtypes of it. So you can have issues with, um, being sensitive...over-sensitive, under sensitive, really wanting more input or how you interpret input or how your body…. how you use your body to, with that input, so there's a lot of different places…. things can go wrong, I guess, yeah.  (3:58)  And so 16% is not a low number. Talk about, you mentioned that it, that it affects, uh, people that used to get affected by it more?? 

Well, I don't know about if they get affected by it more, but okay. So about 16% of the population of kids, has likely…. has sensory processing disorder and about 5% of kids have ADHD. And about 2.5% of adults have ADHD or something like that. If you look, like globally, but in terms of like how many people with ADHD also have sensory processing disorder.  It's really super interesting because what we know is that something around 40% of people with ADHD also have sensory processing disorder. And even those that wouldn't qualify for like sensory processing disorder, um, just because of the unique and amazing neuro divergent aspects of the ADHD brain, they just process sensory information differently than people who wouldn't qualify for a neuro divergency, um, condition.

(5:07)  So that obviously makes it even worse in the respect that, that it, sometimes it's not just ADHD. You have the rest of everything else to look at. 

Oh yeah. It can be, and it can be really tricky for, you know, from a child perspective, the way kids present is different than the way adults with ADHD could present, but it makes it super tricky for families, um, who are trying to figure out what is, you know, that was always a big question, what is ADHD? What sensory. Um, and usually the answer is yes to both like there's stuff going on that, um, gets in this kiddo's way for both, and then for adults too. Being told your whole life, you know, stop it, you know, knock it off when it's something that's happening at a very physiological neurological level that he can’t just turn off.

(5:55)  That brings an interesting question, what should parents be looking for? Because you know, a lot of times it is, will you just chill out or will you just calm down or stop it? That's not real or whatever the case is. 

Yeah, I think like there's aspects to ADHD that certainly stand out. But as it turns out, um, a lot of kids who have ADHD, um, they have a lot of sensory sensitivities or what we call sensory over responsivity to things and those sensitivities, those over, over responsivities  to movement, to touch in particular to sound a lot of the time, uh, for kids with ADHD, those sensitivities show up,, before the ah, the ADHD symptomology  does.  so if, as a parent, if you're thinking back on your child, and you're wondering if there's ADHD or you're wondering if they're sensory for that matter, like if you think back, was the baby particularly sensitive to certain um fabrics, was the baby particularly foods was the baby particularly sensitive to sounds, um, cause what they're, what research is showing is that those modulation issues or over responsivity issues are showing up before a lot of the ADHD signs. And so you can start, to help address those for our child, so they're more comfortable in the world.  That's not going to make ADHD appear or not appear, but it certainly might reduce some of the anxiety, which is another really common condition for those with ADHD, adult, and child. 

So I think it comes down to it always just comes down to a question, listening. 

Yeah. I'm paying attention. Yeah, right?  And that behavior isn't like looking at behavior as a form of communication, not as “I'm trying to piss you off.”

Right. Right. And that's important because a lot of times, especially even in relationships as adults, you know, the, the way that some people act versus the way that other people act is, is very difficult. I think that, you know, we've seen that in a lot of the people we've had on the podcast, people in relationships and, you know, married people and even, even, even people in the workforce, they talk about the things that they do.  Um, you know, oh, it just drove me crazy and I didn't know why it always affected me. And I always thought well you know, I think you also have to find the difference between “it drove me crazy” because, you know, you're, there's something sincerely wrong and it drove me crazy because, you know, the guys just being an asshole.

It's totally right. Totally. Cause you know, there's definitely that aspect of people you can't always put off that you're not a great human on like something else. Sometimes people just aren't great humans, but, but I think for like, a lot of. people with ADHD or, you know, and, or sensory processing issues. like if you don't know that about yourself, but there's this aspect to your brain/body connection that you really can't control, there is no controlling it. Like how much of what you experienced and the things you feel bad about. Like when, you know, when it comes to like the way you see yourself could, could be so different.

(8:56) What can people look for? You know, a lot of times I get emails all the time. People say, oh, I was listening to, um, you know, Faster Than Normal, and for the first time I, I saw myself and I realized that I'm not so weird and not such a screw up. What can people look for, and, and, and look inside themselves and see and say, Hey, you know, this might be this.It's not just me being a screw up. 

Yeah, no, that's such a good question because it's really hard. Like if you've been this way, your whole life, you know, how do you know that it's not, you just, you look around and you think everybody else is probably experiencing the same thing. They just are handling it better. Right?  But I think like if there's lots of different, um, things you can look at, there's actually, um, You know, like they're all over the place, but you can look up free, um, checklists and, and red flag lists and kind of go through them. There's some for adults and there's some for kids and you can just kind of like, um, online, you can pull them up and you can see like, how many of these things did I circle? Like, Oh, maybe, maybe this is me, or if you find like, especially for the over sensitivity stuff, like, um, how often did I experience that, and really felt like I had to flee, right? Like I had a fight or flight response. Like I couldn't stand it. It was not just a thought. It was a feeling in my body, like get the hell out.

And is that from a chemical perspective? What is that? Is that, is that Dopamine, is that adrenaline? 

No, it's not. Well, I mean, you, you have an adrenaline response. It's not dopamine or adrenaline, what it actually is is that literally your neurology when you are, when you have some sensory over responsivity, we know from physiological testing that the brain, actually, these people feel sensation either more intensely than other people do.  We actually have graphs that show, that how the brain is interpreting. They either feel it more intensely. They feel it for longer, right? or it builds over time. So literally their neurology is functioning differently, and this is coming in to the brain at the bottom, you know, like at your emotional and fear centers at no subcortical levels.  And is, is there before the frontal lobe, that judgment place, um, can actually make sense of anything you are already like your brain is, it's called the amygdala hijacking.  Like your brain is already gone. So it doesn't matter once your thinking brain makes sense of it, your body's already in full blown response.

Wow. Yeah, that's kind of fascinating. I mean, I, you know, you don't think that it, that it, I guess, yeah, everything starts immediately. 

Yeah, and it's, it's interesting because also a lot of kids, at least I don't think, um, I don't think there's been research on adults, but kids who have ADHD also have a lot of problems with what we call, um, Praxis or motor planning. It's also called developmental coordination disorder, and it's this connection between like your thinking brain. Like, I want to get this done and your body of how to, you know, sequencing things and planning and all those things that we always think is like this cognitive um, issue with kids with ADHD, there's a body component to it, that's coming from like… this ability to process tactile information and movement information, and body information. And so, they don't have those foundations to rest their cognitive thinking on, so they have great thoughts maybe, but because that brain body connection is so weak, they can't carry them out.

Very interesting. Where can….. people find more about you because this is, this is first of all, we're gonna have you back on, no question about…. after the new year, but where can people find out more about you? This is fascinating. 

About me or about what I do??..

About you, about the work that you're doing, not you specifically, your favorite colors, ...games.  [laughter]

I was gonna say hopefully not alot of people.. I'm doing my life right. But, um, about sensory processing. So Star Institute, I would go to STAR Institute and that's where we have those checklists for people to look at, there's information there. What is sensory processing? Um, 

all sorts of information on research, um, on education, on treatments, on, we have a blog, like there's lots of information out there in the world. There's tons, if you put in sensory processing or sensory integration is another term that's used, and you stick that in Google, there's all sorts of things. There's lots out there on ADHD with sensory processing. 

I have a feeling, a lot of parents are looking at their kids right now and going, hummm.  that's interesting. So I think you,,, I think you might have changed a bunch of lives there. might have a bunch of lives…..awesome.  Mim, ah, Ochshen….let me get this right, Ochsenbein? 

You’re close….

Ochsenbein?  

You’ve got it. 

Alright, Mim, Ochsenbein,  thank you so much for taking the time, I do appreciate it. Uh, this is a phenomenal episode. We will, like I said, we'll definitely have you back.  Guys, check out the starting super sensory processing, you can learn a lot more there. We will be back next week with another episode, as always feel free to send this to people you think we should interview. We would love to hear about them. That's how we found you and, um, reach out, have yourselves a wonderful day, stay safe, wear a mask, and we will talk to you soon. Thanks so much for listening. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. 

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Eric Clark is not your typical educator, and his career trajectory is about as ADHD as it can get. After marrying his college sweetheart in 2006, Eric started teaching middle school math at Central Middle School, located on Boston's South Shore. While earning his stripes in the classroom, Eric was bit by the entrepreneurship bug and launched a small tutoring company called Quincy Tutoring. Two years after starting this venture, Eric transitioned into higher education where he would become the Assistant/Director of the Center for Academic success at Eastern Nazarene College. One aspect of this role was to serve as an advocate for students with learning differences. It didn't take long for Eric to realize that he had more in common with his students than he thought. At the age of 27, Eric officially received an ADHD diagnosis.

After 7 years in higher education, Eric decided to go back to his roots and accepted a role at the Woodward School, an independent high school for girls. This transition would then set off a domino effect where Eric would eventually find himself accepting a teaching role at the Delaware Valley Friends Schools and moving his wife and four daughters to Pennsylvania in the midst of a pandemic. DVFS is an independent Quaker school that is dedicated to serving students with a learning difference and a school with a mission that Eric could stand behind 100%.

Even through Eric's career was humming along nicely, things were bubbling under the surface and would eventually overpower him and disrupt life as he knew it. From the death of a father, to unexpected DNA results, the emotional baggage that comes with these experiences were compounded exponentially when the underlying ADHD and anxiety went unmitigated. This interview is Eric's coming out story, he has never shared publicly before. Enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Eric discuss:

 :40-  Intro and welcome Eric Clark!

2:14-  So being a teacher w/ ADHD, your students must think you’re the coolest teacher in the world!

2:52-  Would you agree that people who have ADHD who have had it since birth and either haven't been diagnosed early, or were diagnosed later in life, realize that when they think about it, that they are kind, compassionate and caring even more-so than the neurotypical, because they know what it's like to be outcasts/different and don't want to wish that on other people(?) 

4:15-  Since you got diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, tell me what it was like for you as a kid. Ref: Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain

6:53-  You’re now a teacher at Delaware Valley Friends School, that’s a school that's dedicated to students with learning differences, right? 

8:44-  What are you telling the kids who are neuroatypical when they come to you thinking they are “broken”, “a waste”, you know, all the things we thought as a kid?  

9:59-  As you see these kids growing up, getting older and going into more advanced classes, what are you learning from that? You mentioned that you’re learning alot from them, what kind of stuff are you seeing in them?  

11:05-  How has it been teaching in this pandemic?  

12:25-  How can people find you?  Website: www.EricAlainClark.com and @EA_Clark on INSTA  Twitter  & @eac.socialmedia on Facebook

12:42-  Thank you Eric! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

13:00  -  Guys, you’re listening to Faster Than Normal,  I want to wish you a happy day.  If you know anyone who you think might want to be on the podcast, let us know. We're still looking. I’ve been doing interview after interview, so we are definitely going to be booked up for the first few months, but let us know who you know, and we'd love to interview them. Have them reach out to me at https://www.shankman.com/  As always… ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We will see you in a week, keep smiling even under the mask, we'll talk soon.

13:26-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, welcome to Faster Than Normal. 

Hi you guys, Peter, Shankman welcome to Faster Than Normal background noise edition.  [producer squints eyes & boots up iZotope’s RX7].  I am recording this a couple of days before the end of the year. And we’ve got, let's see, we’ve got my daughter in one room playing with the new dog. We’ve got the lovely cleaning woman in, in this room, cleaning everything. We have a gorgeous day outside.  Um, everyone is, is, is, is betting that 2021 is going to be better. I'm sitting here remembering that viruses don't know how to read calendars. So it's going to be an interesting time, either way. Welcome to Faster Than Normal, my name is Peter Shankman. I am thrilled that you are here. We have Eric Clark on the podcast today, who is Eric Clark?  Well, Eric Clark is not your typical educator, although he is an educator. After marrying his college sweetheart in 2006, Eric started teaching middle school Math at Central Middle School in Boston’s South Shore.  While earning his stripes in the classroom, he was bit by the entrepreneurship bug and launched a tutoring company called Quincy Tutoring out of Quincy! I know Quincy well.  I went to Boston University and as a photographer or a Photo major, I got to photograph all these, all these projects at different schools and like Dorchester and Roxbury and all that. 

 I love it. 

I take that, take that, uh, that, uh, accent and bring it anywhere I want.  One of the interesting things about Eric though is after he started this venture, he transferred to higher education where he became the assistant director of the center for academic success at Eastern Nazarene college.  Okay. And he served as an advocate for students with learning differences, and that's when he realized that he had more in common with the students than he did with the other teachers.  At the age of 27, he received an official diagnosis of ADHD. (@2:14)  So being a teacher with ADHD, you must've thought ….the kids must have thought you were the coolest teacher in the world.

Yeah, I think so. Um, I think that's just a lot of my personality too. There's a lot of, a lot of love and caring and compassion that goes into, into the work that I do in the classroom. A lot of that was sort of established early on in my life... um, really having a positive outlook and, um, I think the students probably enjoy the, the ADHD mind, but, um, definitely needed to learn how to, how to hone it in, so  we can achieve the outcomes that we're looking to, to achieve. 

(@2:52)  I would argue that people who have ADHD who have had it from since birth, you know, and, and either haven't gotten diagnosed early or gotten diagnosed later in life, like.. realize that when they think about it, that they are kind and compassionate and caring more so than normal people, because they know what it's like to be outcasts.  They know what it's like to be.. um, uh, you know, the different one and they don't want to wish that on other people. Would you agree with that? 

Absolutely. And I think my experience as being called the lazy kid, um, feeling like I could never accomplish a task that I set out to do.  If I go back and I think of my, some of my childhood experiences where I set out to do these lofty projects, like painting a barn that was located on my property. I started it, but I never finished it. 

Painting a barn on your property? 

Um, my parents ended up paying for somebody to paint it- so it all worked out. Um, but I never was, when I think back, I never was lazy. I started working at 14, 15 on the farm. Um, did Masonry work and stuff like that, but I wasn't lazy. I just, I needed some help to figure out how to get from point A to point B. Um, so that executive functioning that, that inner space of, you know, the beginning and, you know, the end, um, really trying to figure out how to get there was the problem for me. 

Understood. I think a lot of it has to come down with the fact that, you know, when, again, the things we love doing, we do them really well.  The things we don't like doing, we sort of start and then we never sort of half-assed them and never actually finished. (@4:15) Tell me… so you got diagnosed as an adult. So, what was it like as a kid? 

Growing up, It was, it was interesting. I think, uh, I've read the book Spark, probably just the ADHD sections. Um, but there's a lot to be said about, uh, cardiovascular and the ability to focus.  So I played two, two seasons of athletics, both Fall and Winter. Um, in those seasons, I was, I was pretty spot on, I was, I was doing B work…. A work in some, some classes, but then come the spring when I wasn't in athletics, um, things sort of tanked. Um, so growing up where, where I grew up in Vermont, we didn't have a whole lot of access to, um, sort of specialized care.  And to be frank, I don't know if my family had the bandwidth, um, to process that ‘cause at nine years old, um, my, well, let me back... back it up a little bit. So when I was 18 months old, my biological father passed away, um, from non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and then my mom remarried about a year later. Um, but then when I was nine years old, big Tim, my Dad was diagnosed with a brain tumor.  So a lot of our bandwidth and whatnot was focused on, on him and making sure he was taken care of. And we did well, we did what we did, what we needed to do. There was, um, I had three siblings, uh, I had two brothers and a sister…. have.. two brothers and a sister, so we did all that we could do to survive. Um, and we made it work.  Um, but I think fast forward to 27 and you see sort of the, the impact of all of the decisions that have been made... you have made throughout the course of your life, because you understand a little bit more how a diagnosis can be helpful, um, in establishing structures and systems that can help you to, to optimize and maximize your ability to be successful.

(@6:02)  No question. I mean, if you don't put those things together, it can ruin you. And I think that, um, I mean, from what I'm hearing, you kind of, didn't  have a choice, right? You sort of had to come out and have, have that immediately. 

Absolutely. And it was sort of, we did what we didn't even really acknowledge the trauma that we, when you go through with a sick parent, I think I started really processing that maybe four or five years ago.  Um, and a lot of that is credit to my wife. She's a saint, she's a, she's a, um, Boston University graduate with her Master's in social work. So she has a skill set to deal with my,  with my nonsense. I wouldn't, I wouldn't wish it upon her, but I'm very grateful to have, to have her in my life. 

It is great to have someone who can help you.  (@6:42)  Tell me about, um, so as you, as a teacher now, um, because you're at, I totally just lost the name of the school where are you … you’re at….

Delaware Valley Friends school. 

Delaware Valley Friends right!  (6:53) So, tell us, it’s a school that's dedicated to students with learning differences, right? 

Absolutely. So, um, my family and I decided to move in the midst of a pandemic from the Boston area to the Philadelphia area. 

Of course, as you do! (laughter) 

Absolutely, and I was, I didn't think it was going to happen. I didn't, I didn't, the job prospects were, were nil, um, because of the pandemic and it didn't seem like anybody was hiring, but I was presented with two offers within 48 hours of, of, of each other, which was, which was pretty crazy.  Um, so from what I gather, um, I'm very new to this sort of Quakerism, um, which I, wish I would've learned about a long time ago, cause it sort of aligns with their core values aligned with my own. Um, but with that being said, there's a lot of Quaker schools in the Philadelphia area, um, and about 30 years ago, they came together at one of their yearly meetings and said, look, um, we do it, we're doing all this great work, but we really don't have a school that focuses on this particular type of student and we want to make sure that we're serving the entire student and making sure that we're serving these students well., um, so about 30 years ago, Delaware Valley Friends school was established, and, um, I can tell you from being there just for a handful of months, it's a very, very special place. Um, they, they, they look at the students as, as an entire person.  They, one of the Quaker values is finding the, the inner lights. Um, so I think every person has an inner light, um, that is God within us. Um, and we try to seek that out and everybody, um, and it's. We, we're getting tangential here because, um, that's what we do. Uh, Quakers typically from what I experienced, they're not, um, evangelical, um, and it's more of a set of core values that can be assigned to humanists, to Buddhists, to, to whatever.  There's a lot of, there's a lot of alignment there and a lot of inclusivity, which is something that I, that I've really come to love and respect. 

(@8:44) What are you telling the kids who have those different brains that just like we do? How are you, you know, and they, they come in and they think my God I'm broken.  I'm, I'm, I'm a waste. You know, all the things that we thought as a kid. 

And, and I thought I was going to encounter a lot of that, but I'm finding that students that have been at DV for a while, they're really empowered to be self advocates. Um, and they know who they are as students and as people far better than what I do as a 36 year old.  And I'm, I'm inspired and they teach me something every day. But I think what I try to tell them is that you are capable of more than what you think you're capable of, and I want you to acknowledge the fear that you may be experiencing. Um, and with it,  I experienced a lot of fear in my, in my classes because I teach math whether or not you have a diagnosis or not just because that's the nature of the subject matter for a lot of students.  Um, so regardless of the fear that you're facing, um, I acknowledge it for what it, what it is, and then build systems to help you overcome that fear because fear is, is not forever. And if you can find a way to overcome it and work through it, you're going to be, you're going to be better off for it. You're going to be able to, to be the rockstar that we that know you can be. 

(@9:59)  I love that…..  that fear is not forever.  That's a really, really smart answer. It makes a lot of sense. When you think about it… how about, um, as you see the kids growing and, and, and, and sort of moving into, they're getting older, and they're going to more advanced classes, um, what are, what are you learning from that? You mentioned that you're learning a lot from them.  What kind of stuff are you seeing them do? 

I have ...I got, I'm thinking of one student in particular, he's coming at me with all of these crazy stories of historical references of, of these mathematicians, um, from, from back in the 1600’s / 1700’s.  and so on. Um, I'm finding that these students have a depth of knowledge and a depth of interests far outside of the scope of, of my content area.  And I need to find ways to tap into that. Um, to get them excited about the work that we're doing in house. Um, and also one thing that my students are showing me is that they're passionate for, for justice. Um, so in equity and, and, and things of that nature. So I want to find ways to incorporate those themes into the, into the curriculum that I present to them on a, on a daily basis.

(@11:05) How’s it been teaching in the pandemic?  

Um, I've learned a lot. I think I would, obviously I prefer to be in the classroom, but if I focused on all of the negative aspects of it, it would become overwhelming and I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. Um, so recognizing this as just a moment in time, and we need to do our best to weather the storm because we will get through this, um, one major thing is, is really taking away the technology that we use in the virtual classroom and finding ways to incorporate that into, um, the, the face-to-face learning environment.  And I mean, just really ramping up my empathy and my caring and my compassion. I felt like I was pretty empathetic before, um, but really giving students the benefit of the doubt when they come to me saying that they don't understand it, or if they just don't hand in an assignment. The, the immediate reaction for me is going to be okay.  Let's figure out why this is. And not assume that the student is slacking off intentionally because there's a lot going on. Um, and we really need to focus on sort of the whole student and not get caught up in our own ego that the students aren't getting the coursework done. Let's figure out why they're getting the, not getting the coursework done and come alongside them and help them overcome these tangential obstacles that, that could be impeding their success. 

(@12:25)  Wish I’d had more teachers like you when I was a kid..  How can people find you? I think, I think that you’re probably gonna get some questions throughout answer and definitely some of the kids, Eric.

So, on Twitter and Instagram, Eric Clark (@ea_clark) | Um, my website is being revamped. It's http://ericalainclark.com/, but that's with the French spelling, alainclark, but find me on the Twitters or on Instagram, and we can, we can connect on, on other, on other  platforms. 

Awesome. Eric Clark, one of the best teachers I’ve ever had on the podcast. Thank you so much for taking the time, I truly appreciate it. 

Peter, thank you so much. It's truly an honor. Thank you so much. 

Guys, you’re listening to Faster Than Normal,  I want to wish you a happy day.  If you know anyone who you think might want to be on the podcast, let us know. We're still looking. I’ve been doing interview after interview, so we are definitely going to be booked up for the first few months, but let us know who you know, and we'd love to interview them. Have them reach out to me at Petershankman.com.  As always… ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We will see you in a week, keep smiling even under the mask, we'll talk soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Raven Baxter, also known as Raven the Science Maven, is an award-winning and internationally acclaimed science communicator and molecular biologist who works to progress the state of science education and culture by creating spaces that are inclusive, educational, and real.

Raven is an entertainer and content creator known for her unique style of combining science and music that teaches and empowers those in STEM and beyond. Raven speaks about innovation in science education and social change in STEM.

Raven is the founder of Science Haven, a non-profit organization that operates at the intersections of science, education, and the public. Science Haven houses STEMbassy, a live web series that connects the public with science and technology professionals, and Black In Science Communication, a group that works to build relationships in the science community, equipping others with the knowledge and resources necessary to share science with the world in their own flavor. Raven has quickly developed a reputation as a strong voice in science education and has been recognized as a global influencer in several publications, including Fortune Magazine’s 40 Under 40 list for 2020.  Enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Raven discuss:

:41-  Intro and welcome Dr. Raven Baxter 

2:47-  So tell us about your background?

4:45-  Where did you go to college?

5:17-  So tell me a bit about when you first got diagnosed with ADHD?  

8:45-  So when you decided to pursue your career, how did that counter with your ADD/ADHD in the premise that it requires so much focus? You can’t sort of round-up in science, so how do you make that work and keep that focus and immediacy that’s needed?   

11:05-  Tell us about what you do, specifically? For kids listening that might want to go into Science, and have that fear they might not have the capacity to focus. 

12:40-  Tell us about what you’d say to kids who may have been told by teachers that science isn’t for them?  

13:54-  So, what would you say to kids about where to go next?  You know, you might get a seventh grader that says, “Hey, I want to do more of this!”  

15:10-  Tell us what you're doing now?

16:20-  How can people find you?  Website: www.scimaven.com and @RavenTheScienceMaven on INSTA  Twitter & Facebook YouTube and @Sciencemaven on TikTok

16:32-  Thank you Raven! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

17:26-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, welcome to Faster Than Normal. My name is Peter. I am your host today and I'm thrilled that you're here. It's a gorgeous day here as we get close to the end of 2020, everyone's assuming that 2021 is just going to be that much. Like we're going to flip a switch and all of a sudden everything's gonna be better.  And, uh, you know what, I'm too tired. I'm too tired to argue with that. So I'm going to say, yeah, sure. That sounds great. We are talking to someone who will tell us all about how crazy that idea is because this woman is involved with science. Her name is Raven Baxter, Dr. Raven Baxter, otherwise known as Raven, the science Maven. which I love.  Okay. She's an award-winning and internationally acclaimed science communicator and molecular biologist. All right. So right here, I can tell you this woman's four times as smart as me, which is great. She works to progress the state of Science, Education and Culture by creating spaces that are inclusive, educational and real.  I love that so much, I'm sitting here staring at my seven year old daughter, and I'm thankful that people like Raven exist.  Raven is an entertainer, she's a content creator, she's known for her unique style of combining science and music, that teaches and empowers those in STEM... and beyond. Raven speaks to that innovation in science education and social change in STEM, she founded Science Haven. Science Haven has this STEMbassy, I love that name, which is a live web series that connects to the public within science and technology and the connection with science, technology professionals, and Black In Science Communication, a group that works to build relationships in the Science community, equipping others with the knowledge and resources necessary to share science with the world in their own flavor. She was one of Fortune Magazine's “40 under 40”, this year. She has a job,  she has a project in progress called Nerdy Jobs with Raven the Science Maven, which I think is awesome. She's had a TEDx talk,  she's on the STEMbassy season finale, she’s all over the internet…. welcome Dr. - welcome Raven. It is great to have you. 

Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I hope you're doing well. 

I always know that my introductions have gone too long when the person like falls asleep and has to come back and say, Oh yeah, Hey, but no, it was a great into,  wonderful to have you. I'm thrilled that you're, that you're a part of this.  (2:47) Um, you're doing some amazing, amazing things first and foremost. Tell us about your background. Tell us about how, how, how Science sort of picked you, as it were. 

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, a lot of people listening to this podcast can relate. But potentially to having ADHD and like being, perhaps being a child and being into everything and wanting to explore everything.  And, um, I feel like with ADHD that was amplified in that, you know, I really felt like I was unstoppable. If I wanted to learn about the clouds I was in the library, like trying to get my hands on every single cloud book and. You know, when I got to the point where I felt like I knew everything about that, then I wanted to learn about space and I went to space camp, and I found that I was afraid of heights..  Yeah, I did it. Have you ever been??

Hey you know what's funny. I never went as a kid. As an adult. I got invited to Media Space Camp, and so I spent three days doing the same thing that they did in space camp and it was incredible. 

That's awesome. So you know how cool it is? 

Oh yeah

Just imagine being a little kid. 

Oh, I can't even imagine, plus I went . I saw the movie, like the second it came out. Right. I was all about Jinx the robot. I wanted that robot, jinx. I was like Jinx and Max friends forever. I totally wanted that robot. 

Yeah, and I also, well, I guess not to be a downer, but I found out I was afraid of heights at space camp. So, you know, my dream of being an astronaut totally wiped down the dream, but I luckily had already been exposed to in part due to space camp, all of the different types of science careers you can have.  So, you know, I just dove into everything and eventually ended up into molecular biology. And that's where I’m focusing now,  and, um, kind of parlayed into science education after having a career as a corporate scientist. 

Amazing amazing. Where'd you go to college? 

I went to SUNY, well, I went to a couple, a couple different colleges actually.Um, I started at SUNY college of environmental science and forestry also known as SUNY ESF. Um, and then I went to community college for a little while, and then I transferred to, um, Buffalo State College where I graduated with my bachelor's and eventually my master's. And now, um, I'll be finishing my doctorate in May at a university at Buffalo. 

Very cool. (5:17)  So tell me a bit, so, you know, science, when you were, when you got ADHD, what was that? When did that? Okay, well, first of all, when did you get diagnosed?

I was diagnosed when I was about six or seven. 

Oh wow really?  OK, and did, get that at that age… it  probably, it probably didn't really change much for you. You just knew, you know, here's, what's up, like it wasn't like you're diagnosed in your thirties or anything like that. 

Right? No. Well,  so when I was diagnosed, um, ADHD medications were very new on the market, right?  And so it was really up to my Mother to say, “OK, she has this okay, she has this diagnosis, what do we do now? Um, being that the medications were so new, she really didn't feel comfortable putting me on anything, so, um, I essentially just… freestyled it, sorry, my dog is sneezing in the background. are you okay?  Um, yeah, so she just kind of freestyled it with me and just, let me, let me be me.

That's awesome. You know, it's interesting. Um, when I was, when I was growing up, it didn't exist. Right? It was the sit down and interrupt the class disease and, um, you know. 

Oh yeah, that was me. 

So here’s the interesting thing,,,,the, the, the, the stuff that you liked, right? The, the, you know, like science, whatever kind of subjects you liked, I'm sure you were great at. 

Oh yeah. I was, I was naturally gifted at pretty much everything that I did, and I think that's. That's probably what frustrated my teachers the most is that I couldn't sit down and do my work. I'd get up. I'd be spinning around during class while the teacher's teaching. And while literally everyone else is seated, I just be up like twirling, twirling around like a tornado.Um, but my work would be done, right? Like acing  everything. So. I mean, I was, I was also bored, but I also was hyperactive, but it was also very smart and getting my work done. So teachers really didn't know what to do cause they couldn't really justify putting me in time out because I wasn't white, like misbehaving, you know?

Yeah. So, but they were putting me in time out. Um, that's the, my mom stepped in after that. 

It's good to have parents that’ll have your back. That must've been tough. You know, here you are getting all this stuff done and it's just that you were too fast for them. 

Yeah. Yeah, I didn't, um, I remember them putting me in, um, a gifted and talented program, uh, at the same time that they put me in a special education program, which is a little confusing for me.Um, because I was going to like three different classrooms where most of my friends weren't moving around. Like they just stayed in the same classroom. And, um, the, in the gifted and talented program, I, I was smart enough to do the work, but those kids were really self-disciplined. Um, they could sit down and do the work, and I felt very out of place because I couldn't, you know, it was a smaller group of kids and I realized I was the only one, like, couldn't stop moving around. Um, but I, I felt home in the special ed classroom. I really did. 

Yep. I believe it. And you know, what's interesting is that, is that you go, you know, I remember, I never, my grades were… in  New York City, there was something called a resource room where you could get extra time and to do all these things, but my grades were too good. I, you know, I had great English skills and my math wasn't great, but my English and science, all that was enough that you're like, oh, he doesn't need that, but he won't shut up. 

Right. 

So you couldn't, you couldn't really win when you, (8:45) so when you decided to pursue science as a, as a career, you know, how was that, how did that sort of line u…. uh, how did that counter with your ADD/ADHD with the premise that, you know, you have to focus, right? You're looking at things that, you know, I say, what is that great, uh, that great quote, when, uh, when, uh, you know, when, when a nuclear physicist screws up the world explodes, one of geologists goes up, rock breaks and that's about it, you know, but you, you're, you're sitting there with like, you know, you're doing stuff that matters and you're doing stuff where you have to be completely on point, right?  You can't just sort of round up. In science. Exactly. What, tell us, tell us how you are… um, how do you make that work? How do you, how do you keep that focus? How do you get that sort of, uh, immediacy that's needed? 

That's a very good question, and that's something that I honestly struggled to answer myself.  Um, because as a student, um, being a scientist as a student, and when you're learning the science, there's really not a lot of pressure. Like you're, like what you were saying, you know, you’re just enjoying the subject, you're mastering the subject. But when you're working as a corporate scientist, the script is completely flipped.  You know, when you're working in drug discovery, where I was working, um, it was very difficult, to work in that high pressure situation, um, where you know that every number matters, right?  There's barely any room for error because you're working on a million dollar project and every test tube that you waste is $10,000 down the drain, literally.  And you're also making things that will potentially go into somebody's body down the line. And so you really want to make sure your work is the best it can be, which is possible with ADHD. But, um, I personally don't feel like professional environments, such as like, a corporate scientific environment... I don't think that they've quite come up with the resources needed to make that a comfortable working environment for somebody like you or me.  Um, I do think that like there needs to be special accommodations just like there isn't school for people with, um, you know, learning disabilities and attention disorders. I think I would have had a much more comfortable working experience had that been in place. 

(11:05) Tell us about what you do, specifically…. right?  So give us like your top three. So you have a lot of kids who listen to this podcast and they're, you know, if any of them wanna go into science and they're afraid, well, I don't have the, the capacity to focus. Tell us what you do. Cause it's, it's obviously you've proved that it's possible. 

Yeah. Um, I think that for me, having ADHD is definitely about recognizing where your superpowers work the best, right?  Um, and asking for help when you need it. So, for me personally, I feel like, um, my excitement and my love for science really is best used when I’m teaching about science and sharing that with other people. Um, and so I'm able to take everything that I learned about as a student and share it with people that want to learn about science who are around me.  Um, and that's what I do now. As a science communicator, I use music, I use videos, I use music videos and, uh, I communicate science through all of those things to help people learn about science and teach people about new things. 

I've never heard that  term science communicator, I love that. And what I'm going to love, is that you've managed to take what you love, combine it with what you do, and here we are.  

Right? Yeah. I love it too. Um, there, I'm sure you've heard of Bill Nye, The Science Guy, Neil Tyson… those are all science communicators. I just don't think people know what to call them. 

Yeah. I'd never heard the term. That's so cool. (12:40) Tell us about, um, so. What do you say to kids who don't believe that, you know, oh, they've been told by the teachers and you know, mistakenly that yeah, you're ADHD. You're not gonna, you know, science isn't for you. I mean, I, I, I, had a teacher that actually said I should pursue accounting, right? 

Oh my gosh. I think that science is perfect for people with ADHD. And the reason is because there's so many questions to answer. And if you're anything like me, you want to bounce from question to question to question.I mean, one day I'm thinking about. Oh my gosh, how did the universe start? Whoa. Now I'm looking into quantum physics and yeah, quantum physics...documentaries, and trying to learn about the big bang theory and different, different theories that exist that, um, that are talking about where the universe came from or where did life come from on planet earth, right?  All of those different theories. And it's really exciting. There's, there's really no one way to love and enjoy science. And there's so many different questions to answer, that it's perfect for somebody with ADHD, because there's something new all the time to focus on and learn about.

I love that. I love that. So the premise that you'll never get bored?

You'll never get bored. I can almost promise you that. 

(13:54) So, what do you say to, uh, where, where should the kid go next? You know, you're going to get a seventh grader or something that says, Hey, I want to do more of this. 

Ah, gosh, that's a really good question.I think that what's worked for me when I was a young kid is just not getting too worked up about following a particular path. Like really just follow your natural instincts and pay attention to what's interesting to you and just get lost in it. Right? Like I, some of the, I would've never become, I would have never become a molecular biologist if I didn' decide that I could learn anything I wanted to learn and do whatever I wanted to do to learn that. So like going on Wikipedia, and clicking on Wikipedia to different articles and just getting lost in the articles, because everything's linked to each other on the website, um, that's one way to do it or watching documentaries. Um, going on, you know, asking your parents to go on to Netflix and picking up documentaries,  that’s appropriate for you to watch, to learn more, asking your teachers interesting questions, because they might be able to teach you something new. Um, those are different ways to get into it. 

Yup. I love that. Very, very cool. (15:10) Tell us what you're doing now...

So now I am working full time as a science communicator while finishing my doctoral research.  Um, and I'm hoping to start a couple of new series with a major network next year. Um, all of this is pretty much under wraps, which is why I'm being a little vague, but, um, it's a network that everybody loves and enjoys. That, um, we're working on two shows together and both of those shows are science shows.  One of those shows is focused on biology and learning everything there is to know about biology. And, um, the other show is me exploring different jobs in science, technology engineering, and that the medics. 

All right. Very cool. So stay in. So it's good that you're not busy or anything like that. 

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Well, this has been very, very cool. (16:09) Tell, tell people how that they can find you, cause I have a feeling that you get a ton of followers and a ton of questions off this interview. How can people find you? 

You can find me um anywhere on the internet, if you Google  “Raven, the Science Maven.” I'm on Twitter @Ravenscimaven, and everywhere else at “Raven the Science Maven,” except for TikTok, where I am @Science Maven. 

I love it. I love it. Raven Baxter, Raven the Science Maven, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast. This was a lot of fun and I think you're going to give a lot of kids a lot of hope because let me tell you someone who has a seven year old daughter, who is currently playing with her brand new rescue puppy that we got. Um, it's pretty awesome to watch her get excited about things. We've been doing science experiments, we've grown a crystal. Um, what else have we done? Done lot of fun stuff and, and it's, it's fun to watch her eyes light up when we do it. So, you know, go--- go science!  I'm always, it's funny. I haven't, I haven't said this yet, but I always want to quote the line every time she does something gets excited about, I want to teach her to say the line from um, um, from Breaking Bad where they cook their first batch of meth and is “science bitch,” but don’t wanna do it.  Raven, thank you so much for taking the time, we will definitely have you back at some point in 2021, stay safe, stay healthy, and we'll talk with you soon. Guys, you've been listening to Faster than Normal. We love it when you're here, we love it that you're here. We love it that our numbers keep going up and the more people are learning that  ADHD is a gift, not a curse.  Please stay in touch with us, shoot us an email, let us know who you want to hear. Raven came to us… uh, from a user, from a listener who said, “Hey, you should have this person on your podcast.”  And we did. That's how it works. It's really simple, so if you want more, give us some names, we will make more easily.  Otherwise leave us a review, stay safe, stay healthy, wear a mask, we will see you guys next week. Thanks so much for listening, my name is Peter Shankman.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Tunch Diptas is an accomplished executive & coach, a master of combining the discipline of the mind and body, turning the previously unobtainable goals into self-fulfillment and success stories. Post graduation, Tunch mastered in International Economics. He has cultivated advanced relationships with wealth advisors, private bankers, business bankers, insurance agents, trust specialists, advanced financial planners, and mortgage consultants, as a Certified Financial Planner. As a result of the long time interest, he set his heart on the consultancy. Tunch has worked with executives from Fortune 500 companies including, Wells Fargo, Northwestern Mutual, Chase Manhattan, KW Inc., guiding them to get outstanding results. So far, Tunch has worked with soccer teams to reach championship status; early career executives to obtain leadership roles; and successful professionals to accomplish their dreams. He is a Senior Leader with the Tony Robbins Leadership Academy, focusing on Business Results Training. He believes that “Leadership begins with an ability to persuade and connect. Engaging and captivating any audience from beginning to end for a powerful, lasting impact can be learned!”

Tunch provides a rich set of practical and life-tested ideas, concepts, and frameworks that will help those who want to change; to be the best that they can be. His ambition is to make people better in their focus area, discover their purpose, make a strategic plan, and finally get measurable, quantitative results with a significant improvement in leadership and team building skills. With the ambition of inspiring people with impactful ways so that they can all have authentic and meaningful lives, Tunch is always glad to connect with new people!  Enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Tunch discuss:

:50-  Intro and welcome Tunch Diptas 

1:26-  So what’s your story?

2:15-  What prompted you to get tested for ADHD?

3:22-  What were the medications the put you on first? How did that go?

6:10-  Tell us a little about how you took control of your happiness after your diagnosis?

7:20-  On defining purpose

8:45-  On focusing on what’s important and what’s working

9:25-  What do you advise on negotiating the downsides of change and embracing the positive?

12:20-  Let’s talk about emotional fitness; how do you deal with anger, anxiety and communicating with your partner/family/co-workers, etc?

14:50-  How do you find a middle ground/balance with your work and life?

16:20-  How can people find you? At www.TunchDiptas.com and @TunchDiptas on INSTA  Facebook and YouTube

16:54-  Thank you Tunch! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

17:26-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

PS: If you're looking for that special gift this holiday season for someone in your life who has ADD, ADHD, or any kind of neurodiverse brain, how about a conversation with me? I've finally been convinced to join Cameo, where you can request videos, shout-outs, birthday greetings, even a one-on-one talk about how ADHD is a superpower! You can find me on Cameo here!​

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter Shankman... happy to have you here. As we enter the world of ADHD, ADD everything that are diverse, for another episode of Faster Than Normal, good stuff going on. We're gonna be talking to a coach today who I love his bio. The guy seems to have done everything. Um, his name is Tunch Diptas and I want it to tell us it tells us his background because it's, you're gonna find it fascinating, but I can give you the highlights.

He mastered the International Economics. International Economics, right? He's worked with companies, Wells Fargo, Northwestern Mutual, Chase Manhattan. Um, he led soccer teams to championship status. So I want to hear about that. And then we're going to talk.. I want to focus a lot on managing stress change, conflict of crisis, which is his big thing.

So welcome Tunch, good to have you. 

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. 

Good. So yeah. Tell us, tell us your backstory, cause you're not from this country. Tell us where you came from, how you got here… and you said you weren't diagnosed with ADHD until you were in your thirties. So tell us that, that as well, start at the beginning.

Sure. Uh, I'll be happy to. Um, so I actually grew up in Turkey and, um, when I was growing up, um, I didn't know anything about ADHD and my family didn't either. And, um, I grew up with so many challenges, um, family challenges and then also challenges at school. But, um, I was able to make it happen and I moved to the United States actually with no money, no English and no contacts.  So, um, that was my journey from Turkey to the States. And, um, I was able to overcome the challenges and  I'll be happy to talk about all of those. 

Yeah. Tell us, so tell us when you, what, what prompted you to get diagnosed with ADHD? 

So I, uh, after moving to the States and one of the things that I've done is I wanted to grow and learn the language and improve myself.  So that's why I start growing and then going to libraries. And, um, and then later I, um, I started working in corporate finance world because my background... education background was economics, and, um, I became successful.  Uh, I was so hyper-focused with success and, uh, I made it happen. And one of the meetings about six, seven years ago, um, one of my colleagues told me that you have ADHD. And I said, I don't think so. And he said, no, you're bored in every meeting. And, um, and then also you're easily distracted. So you got to go see a doctor. And I said, sure, because. I was successful, but I wasn't happy. So I was looking for answers. 

That's actually, that's actually a trait, the concept of being tremendously successful in it, but still feeling like something's wrong and you haven't been able to accomplish a thing. 

Exactly. And I didn't know what ADHD was because I grew up in Turkey and when I was growing up, it's still a developing country and nobody told me anything about it, but I was always feeling the symptoms. And like one of the stories that I remember from my childhood, that, um, I was always falling down. Always like, um, had wounds on me. And once I had an accident and I fell, I fell down and it just, um, I had a big wound on my face and my chin and, um, and then I went back to the, uh, the class and my teacher looked at me and, she said it's….  still developing countries,  so, uh, she said, why'd you do that? Why do you keep falling down? Why do you always, why are you so clumsy? So she looked at me and she said at in effect, she called my Mom, and my Mom came to the school because it had to, um, I had to go to a doctor for a stitch for stitching my chin and, um, my Mom looked at me, and she said the same thing. Why are you so clumsy? What's wrong with you? And that story is just, um, got stuck with me and I asked the same question all my life to myself. I said, what's wrong with me? And, but that was my primary question until I realized what I'm asking. I was asking myself and that's when as soon as I realized, that's when I stopped, I decided to change. And I went to doctor, uh, after, uh, hearing from my friend, and he said, uh, the doctor said you have high ADHD. Um, constant boredom was the highest thing that he said. And I said, okay. So they start giving me medication. And I used it may,  be short, maybe two, three months, and I decided that it’s not for me, and I made a choice. (4:51) What medication were you on? Um, Ritalin,  Conserta,  um, Adderall,  they tried everything and it was, it was interesting because I'm like, am I, why am I taking all of these things? Because I have more anxiety, I feel more depressed. I was feeling down and, um, and I was like, I was happier before. So, and that's when I decided that I need to come up with steps to make myself feel fulfilled and happy., and if you want, I can go through the my steps, no, that makes perfect sense, but tell, yeah, tell us a little bit about what you,  how do you, so when you decided to take control, you know, a lot of people say, God, I need to be able to feel happy through it. And then they can't put it into sort of actionable items.

So in a nutshell, you know, in a minute or less, tell us what you did. 

So, um, I looked at my background, my history, as I mentioned, I came to this country with no money, no English, no contacts. So how did I do it? How did I do it? Because I had a belief that I came to this world for a reason. And I knew that my purpose is to grow and discover myself and learn what's going on in this world, explore myself and explore everything else, so that was my purpose when I was, when I came to this country and that's what made me going. And then that's what I know now, if I am so clear with my purpose, that keeps me going. And then also, um, It makes me progress. That's what makes me happy. So that was the number one thing that I put it down. I said, I got to know my purpose, be clear with it, and, um, I need to align with every day. So that was my first thing. 

 I think, a lot of what happens, uh, when, when you, I mean, in general, but certainly when you have ADHD, you have this feeling like that if you're not moving forward, you're going backwards, right?   And so not having a purpose and not having really anything to keep striving for is probably the worst thing in the world for someone with ADD or ADHD.

Absolutely because, um, I mean, I have worked with clients and then also the colleagues that I noticed when someone who has ADHD, they, um, it’s just easily get distracted and easily, um, critique themselves so much that they go into depression mode.  Instead, what I came up with, I said, I got to remind myself my purpose every day, and that will give me the juice to move forward, to get motivated. So that was the first thing, but the most important to that, I figured out about five, six years ago and cheesy enough, but easy to say it embraced who you really are. And, um, embracing is like loving yourself with who, who I am, and loving I am, and um, why is that so important, because I used to, as I mentioned my, in my story with my mom and my teacher, I came up with that question to myself every time I'm forgetful, I, I used to say to myself, um, why am I like this? What's wrong with me? Or every time I'm clumsy. 

 Well, that's always the question. What's wrong with me. Why aren't I like everyone else? Why am I getting in trouble? Why am I the one being picked on?  Right, exactly.   So, and then I made a choice. I said, I'm going to love myself as who I am, and I'm going to reframe... that's the third step.  Re-frame everything. So instead of saying I'm forgetful, I actually start telling people and myself first myself and telling people that look, I only remember what's important only. And, um, I can, I can hyper focus on what's important and I can make things work. Um, that way the other things, yes, I forget, but I remember what's important. The question you get to keep that to heart. 

No question about it. In terms of, so, so one of the things that you, you focus on is managing stress and, and sort of change, you know, people want ADHD, we can do very, very well at change. If we have the tools to do that, you know, if not, if things like, for instance, when COVID started and, you know, all of a sudden I was home every day, instead of being on the road, you know, 300,000 miles a year, that was brutal for me, and that took a lot of changing, to get sort of under control and a lot of, a lot of work to make sure that I was okay because you know, all my creativity came from being on a plane and that was taken away from everyone, um, almost overnight. So in terms of a change, because 2021 is going to be just as insane, hopefully a little less, but you know it’s still going to be crazy.  What do you advise, especially someone with ADHD, you know, in a few minutes, tell us what they can do, and what anyone can do, to sort of negate um, the downsides of change and, and embrace sort of the positive side?

 Yeah. Um, so we gotta stay in house. That's the challenge. That's what you're saying, right.

Well, just not being able to travel, not be able to do what I normally do. All of a sudden they have to, you know, I'm a home, but my, my, it was a massive change for me to start being home versus to be on the road all the time. I had to change my entire system of how I lived. 

Right. And that's one of the things that I was my fourth step is, um, team up, teaming up with people, um, who can help, who can compliment you to overcome stress, and in also to make you successful is so important. And that's why I took this time to build the daily habits, which will help me get motivated every day. And it kept, I kept doing the daily habits. Even though there's no routine because I have a chaotic brain, creative brain I say it instead of chaotic brain, I said creative brain. And, um, I have a creative brain, so, but I still need to remember my purpose and then keep doing the activities, which help me get going. And then the other thing is this time is perfect to connect with people at a deeper level and also, um, help, help, it will help you get going. If you find the right people to team up, like right now, I am teaming up with people who can help me with organizing, who can help me with details, who I'm a, why person I'm a visionary person. If I find the right team, right person to help me right now, it's even more important.  So, what I will say is connecting and then cultivating deeper relationship, deeper relationships will help us get going right now, get motivated, and in also coming up with the daily positive activities, which will align with your purpose, 

That makes a lot of sense. Um, you know, if you have, if you have accountability buddies that were, that tends to, uh, that tends to help.

So no question about it. Um, in terms of, um, uh, emotional fitness, right? A lot of time, we have a hard time expressing how we feel. I know that in my world, uh, and, and a lot of the guests you've had on the podcast, when you have ADHD, you need to feel heard and you need to feel validated. And if you're in an argument with someone that's not always the easiest thing to do. What do you suggest, in terms of dealing with anger and, and, and anxiety, um, either with a partner or on your own, what can you do to sort of, you know, top, top things to do to prevent that? Anxiety. And, um, what else do you, uh, anger of, you know, w with a partner or a friend or whatever. 

Okay. so what I would suggest is again, um, the connecting with people at a deeper level, and then also as far as the anxiety, um, my suggestion is, is, um, taking time to, of course, to meditate and doing something, which will make me, that's what I do, which will make me get present. First. I get out of the state that I am in. Right now  it's so important to get out of the house, um, do something which will make you present again. For me, it's walking just to get out of the house and whenever I feel down, and then I start looking at where I, where do I focus?  Do I focus on what I have or what I don't have? Do I focus on, um, what I can control or what I can't control? Do I focus on, um, what's present and what can I do? What can I learn? Or what's what's in the past. So I look at where I'm focusing on and then also, um, also doing something to get me out of a comfort zone. Couple of weeks ago, I was, I wasn't feeling like top of my game. And I said, I got to do something to get me out of comfort zone, which I see your picture. I did go skydive to get out of my comfort zone. And right after that, what can I do to control my focus? That's what I think the two things getting out of the comfort zone by changing the state, and the second thing is where's my focus. And then also a third thing is how can I be optimistic about the future? Where do, what am I focusing on in the future, right. 

Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. Tell us, um, in terms of establishing a balance, you know, a lot of times, when you’re ADD/ADHD, we're really all or nothing, right?  We go in and do everything or we do nothing. How do you find that middle ground? Because middle ground is really, really hard for people with neurodiverse issues. 

Actually, I don't. ha OK -  Here’s why. Um, I used to, um, try to, I used to try to do like, uh, how can I find the balance? How can I find the balance?  Now what I do is, okay, I found what I love doing, which is coaching. And when you do that, and I just get obsessed with what I do and I love it. And then people around me are integrated with it, so, um, it’s just, I believe that work life integration. And I just, do my work, and then people around me. I just integrated it in it.  Um, and that's, that's my solution to it. And it, because I love obsessing. What I love and what I love doing. And that's the, um, that's the formula to success. If you want to be successful in anything, you gotta be obsessed with it, which we have that, as ADHD people as a gift as that's what makes us unique.

Great answer. And I think that's a great place to leave it right now. Definitely want to have you back on again, Tunch, thank you so much for taking time. How can people find you? Give us your website. 

Um, it's um, I can find me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and, um, it's Tunchdiptas.com. And they can find me, uh, with the same thing,  any, any social media. 

Awesome. We'll put that all into the show notes. Tunch, thank you so much for taking the time to spend some time with us today on Faster than Normal, we truly appreciate it, guys, if you're listening and you've listened this far, leave us a review. Ah, reviews that show up on the, on the site and on Amazon or Amazon or Spotify, or wherever you download your podcasts, they do tend to help and they do tend to get more people interested and more people can then know that ADHD is a gift, not a curse, been saying that for going on four years now, so we appreciate that you've been listening, we appreciate that you've been here. Any guest ideas, feel free to shoot me a note. Peter@shankman.com. We would love to have them.  Thanks again to our guests and to all our guests, and guys, ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Stay safe, wear a mask, we'll see you next week.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Rach McBride (they/them) is a professional Ironman triathlete and three-time Ironman 70.3 Champion, with numerous podium and course record results. Known as the “Purple Tiger,” Rach is known for racing and training with grit and resilience: having run half Ironmans on broken feet, raced an Ironman with food poisoning to qualify for the World Championships in Kona, and is an undefeated beer mile champion.  Deemed "the most interesting [person] in triathlon" by TRS Radio, Rach is also the first professional triathlete to be out as gender non-binary. It's not surprising that Rach was recently diagnosed with ADD: They hold two graduate degrees in genetics and are an accomplished cellist, having toured the US and performed in Europe with various bands. Rach loves being a minimalist, continues to hone their fire spinning skills, and currently works in sexual health education and advocacy in beautiful Vancouver, Canada. Enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Rach discuss:

1:30-  Intro and welcome Rach McBride 

Ref peter’s video about training for an Ironman 

4:05-  So why triathlon? What got you into it to begin with? Let's start there. 

5:40-  When were you diagnosed with ADD? How much of a part did ADD play in your decisions to compete?

7:55-  On self-medication, switching addictions and the benefits of Sport & hyperfocus

9:14-  Is Competitive Sport a trait of people with ADD, ADHD or otherwise neurodiverse?

10:29-  Tell me about how you approach training/your daily routine/motivations, etc?

11:30-  On staying disciplined/not letting yourself talk yourself out of what’s next on deck

13:35-  Why doesn’t working out feel like forced or grueling ‘work’?

16:40-  About COVID and readjusting our weekly routines. How have you been surviving?

18:30-  How did the race in, and at Daytona International Speedway go for you last year?

20:14-  More about Challenge Daytona and how the loop works with the psyche

22:10-  The ‘tricks’ of competing in triathlons 

23:20-  What’s the one piece of advice you have for when people say: I can’t exercise, I just can’t!?

24:30-  LIGHTENING ROUND!  

What’s your fav piece of tech you just can’t do without? What’s your resting heart rate? If you had to live in ONE place for 6 months, with only 3 items, what would they be?

26:07-  Peter’s story about his first Ironman experience. 

[You can get in touch with Rach McBride via https://www.rachelmcbride.com]

27:55-  Thank you Rach! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

28:45-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

PS: If you're looking for that special gift this holiday season for someone in your life who has ADD, ADHD, or any kind of neurodiverse brain, how about a conversation with me? I've finally been convinced to join Cameo, where you can request videos, shout-outs, birthday greetings, even a one-on-one talk about how ADHD is a superpower! You can find me on Cameo here!​

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hello everyone. My name is Peter Shankman. You are listening to Faster Than Normal. We believe that ADHD is a gift, not a curse and that all forms of neurodiversity are valid. We're glad you're here. 

Oh, You are listening to Faster Than Normal. How do I know this? Cause I am currently doing the interview. My name is Peter Shankman. I am thrilled that you are here. It is a gorgeous, it's just become a gorgeous day. We had a massive snow storm here about three hours ago. Now it is gorgeous. It ran all night. There's tons of, well, now it's all brown snow on the ground. This is New York city, but it is now the sun is out. The clouds are fading away. It is a, if you, if it wasn't 12 degrees out, you think it was just a beautiful day to go for a run. It probably means that I will not be doing that. So instead, I'll be doing an interview. Today’s interview is with Rachel McBride. We got a professional Ironman triathlete, and three time Ironman, 70.3 champion on the podcast and I’ll give you a hint, it's not me. It's Rach.. because when I do. My Ironman. I occasionally finished. I occasionally wind up in an ambulance. It really depends on the day, but the person we have right now is professional Ironman triathlete. I'm very excited about that. 

Known as the purple tiger, Rach is known for racing and training with grit and resilience. Having run half Ironman on broken feet, racing iron man with food poisoning to qualify for the world champions in Kona and races, an undefeated beer mile champion. I want to hear all about that. Rach is deemed the most interesting person in triathlon by TRS radio. Rach is also the first special triathlete to be out as gender non binary. That means that we do not call Rachel, we call each by the pronouns that Rachel prefers, which in this case is that I'm going to try really hard to say they, and I apologize in advance if I, if I subconsciously go back to she, but I'm going to work really, really hard on that. Um, I have a couple of friends who are non-binary and it's something I'm constantly trying to get better at not surprising that Rachel was recently diagnosed with ADD. Two graduate degrees in genetics and an accomplished cellist. Very interesting. Having toured the U S before in Europe with various bands, Rachel has being a minimalist nice continues to hone their fire spinning of course, you're a fire spinner. Why not? And currently works in sexual health education advocacy in beautiful Vancouver, Canada, Rachel, welcome to Faster Than Normal. What an awesome bio! 

Oh, thanks, I am super excited to be on your podcast. I'm a big fan. I, I, you know, I'm a huge, the more I learn about your, the more my God, three times 70.3 champion, we're talking about that you, you were deemed the most interesting person in triathlon by TRS radio, and we have something in common. I was deemed one of the funniest people in triathlon by traffic magazine. So Hey. You might not know a little secret. I made the video that I have no doubt that you saw about 10 years ago after my first iron man, 10 years ago, this past October, I made a video called I'm training for an Ironman where these two guys or a guy and a girl talking to each other and the girl goes, Do you wanna go get some dinner? And the guy says I can't. I have to go to bed at 6:00 PM. And she goes, what the hell is wrong with you? He goes, I'm training for an iron man. And it wound up getting picked up Lance Armstrong before we knew he was made of chemicals, tweeted it and it blew up and has several million views. And if you've been in racing triathlons, as long as you have, I'm sure you've seen it. 

So can't believe that I'm talking to the person who created that video! 

It was based on an actual conversation with an ex-girlfriend who would help, who helped me. I trained for Kona while we were dating. And is that not going to Cozumel while we're dating and as soon as the, um, as soon as the, uh, triathlon ended, you know, we broke up and then that was, that was, uh, uh, a combination of all the conversations we had. 

So, yes. So I love it. 

So why triathlon? What got you into it to begin with? Let's start there. 

Well, so I, um, basically spent most of my adult hood, uh, not as an athlete at all. Um, and I was actually doing my, I had really changed my life a whole lot gone from like being really involved in the Toronto music scene, uh, to doing my first masters in Ottawa, Canada, where it is freezing cold in the winters. Yeah. Um, and I was really hating life and not super happy with what I was doing and where I was. And so I decided to run a marathon and I trained for a marathon. I qualified for Boston. Um, I had done a little, yeah, I had run until I was 15. I had done like back in cross country. Um, and uh, after running Boston, I, a mentor of mine was like, Hey, I think you could be an elite triathlete. And I was like, well, I mean, this person knew me as an athlete, as a runner, but, you know, I, and I swam when I was a kid.

So I had a little bit of that and I had been a bike commuter all my life. So first of all, for some reason I took that idea of being an elite triathlete. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to do it. And so I started training really hard. I did my first triathlon, uh, 13 years ago and almost won it and just like it just took over the state, took, took over my life. I just, I couldn't, you know, the smile I had on my face when I came out of the swim and got onto my bike, I was like, Oh my goodness, I'm doing this. I'm loving it. Hm. What do you, so, so when were you diagnosed today? Um, I was diagnosed with add earlier this year.

Wow. So it's brand new to you. How much of, how much of a part do you think A DD played in. You deciding? Yeah, let's just run a marathon. Oh, here we qualified for Boston. Let's run that. Or, Hey, let's do a trip, you know? Do you think that when you said you were very unhappy, right? You said he used to run as a kid and then you stopped.

Do you think that the running helped you up until you're like 15 and 16 and you stopped running? And when you, when you lost that sort of that you probably didn't even know you were having. Do you think that had an impact exactly like this is the thing with the, this is what's been so profound for me is that this recent diagnosis has made all of these like puzzle pieces of my life finally fit into place and like why, for why I have gone from like career to career, to career and then found triathlon and have been in this now for I've been a full-time professional for 10 years. And I can't believe that I've stuck in this for 10 years, because usually I get bored and I move on what I have and what I realized when I became a full-time athlete. I'm like this, this doesn't feel like work to me. This doesn't feel like a job. Like I love my life. I love waking up every day and doing this and didn't realize that like a quote unquote job could feel like this. And I think what is so special about me finding this as, um, as an athlete, is that as a person with ADD is that it is absolutely self-made at medicating. You know, all of the things that I'm learning about, like how to cope with ADD symptoms is like exercise, exercise, exercise, and structure, and it like, this is checking so many of those boxes, plus it's three different sports. If I was just in one sport, I think I would be so bored. I would not have lasted this long, but because I have to get to swim, I get to bike, I get to run. It's like super varied and I get to travel all over the world and I get to, you know, explore so many different places, even mine in my own neighborhood. Like, you know, it, it keeps me super entertained. And obviously for the past decade. 

I think one of the interesting things you said, um, is pretty awesome. The concept that it is self-medicating. And I remember when I quit drinking and I started focusing on my health and getting in shape and working out, I would, there were times where I was probably like, you know, five years ago, it has been go to the gym two times a day.

Right. Or I'd go out for I'd wake up at 3:00 AM because it was the only time I'd do a 10 mile run, you know, before I had to lift at 7:00 AM, be in the office by eight and. I remember I had a friend of mine. He goes, dude, you're self-medicating, you're just, you just switched one addiction for another. I'm like, um, yeah, where's, where's the, where's the downside there, you know, and I really didn't see it.

I still don't see it. Right. Absolutely. I think, and I think what, what sport helps me do as well is, and why I'm so successful as it added is because it's a way for me to, I can hyper-focus in there. So I, because of how my brain works, I can, in my Ironman swims, I'm literally singing the same, like verse of a song over and over and over and over and over for an hour. And that helps me, like calms me. Focuses me. And then, you know, the same thing on the bike and the run it's like that I'm able to like be in, in that. And it's super hyper-focusing. 

It has to be an ADHD trait because my first half iron man in 2009, um, to get through that, you know, you're not allowed to wear headphones and music has been my life in any extra that I've ever done all my life and so. The first race I ever did. First half Ironman. I'm like, Oh my God, I can't wear headphones. How am I going to get through this? And I found myself, I sang the entire, I recited the entire on the bike, the entire script back to the future and on the run, the entire script to midnight run. And, you know, I mean, there were times when I'd be, I'd be passing people more like if people were passing me, but you know, I remember passing one guy and, and, and he hears, and looks at me strangely cause out of my mouth comes, “you guys are the worst bounty hunters I've ever seen. You couldn't bring back a bottle of milk!?” And he looked at me, he goes, like, “yeah, just have a good race”. And you know, but, but, but that works right. And, and, and the premise of being able to do something in our brain that gives us after four minutes gives us those chemicals for as long as we want for as long as we can, you know, technically sustain it. Right. Is, is I just think one of the miracles of the human body and the human brain. And I don't mean to be trite by that, but it really, you know, I'm upset. I'm frustrated, I'm angry. Let's get on the bike. Let's go for a run. Let's go for a swim. Um, tell me about, so tell me about training because a lot of times when I talk to athletes with ADHD, one of two things happens. They wake up and my God, they love to train on certain days and they wake up and, Oh my God, I, this the last thing I want to do, I'll I'll murder 14 people and eat ants before I have to get on that bike or go for that run over that one. 

Yeah. I mean, for me, I am definitely the person who wakes up and is like pretty excited to train. It's tough. It's obviously not every day. And I do what keeps me going is the accountability of like having coaches, um, who I know are paying attention to what I'm doing. And also, um, having sponsors and fans and supporters who are. They're behind me. And so it's, it's like this level of accountability that keeps me going every day. 

How, I mean, I do wake up in the morning and it definitely takes me a couple of hours to, to get ready to go. Um, and I'm really good at procrastinating too. So I, I have to, if I don't work out first thing in the morning when I wake up, I simply do not work out. And I have had, um, uh, you know, if I, if I have to do it. You know, in the evening, um, I will think of a reason, you know, I've, I've said this in the podcast before I'll be walking to the gym, you know, from my office, like, you know, I read an article in the news, there's an asteroid orbiting Pluto, you know, just to be safe and I figure out a way not to do it. And so, so, so, you know, the question becomes, um, what do you tell yourself? How do you sometimes when you don't want to do, but you have to, what do you do. 

Um, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm really in that same boat of when I, so I work, um, once a week at, uh, in sexual health and it's basically a seven hour or eight hour shift in front of a computer and talking on the phone and at the end of that shift, I am completely wiped. And I, if I, it is really challenging for me to, to get in that workout. And I really just for me, I just, I can't think about it. I just need to, like, I need to have a plan and a time. So it's like, if I have a swim then, okay. My swim is scheduled for like five o'clock. I've got to be there or a gym session. It's like, it's on the way home. So I can't hesitate basically. Um, And, you know, when I first started triathlon and I, when I first started, I was, I was really quickly at an elite level and training at an elite level and still working full time. So I was like up at four 30 in the pool at five, working from seven 30 to three 30, doing another workout in the afternoon and evening, and then like getting up and doing it all over again. And. It was basically, I felt like I just wasn't thinking, I just like had to keep plowing forward. Um, and I think that's kind of one of those super powers that I have as a person with a brain like this is, um, is just that ability to just like keep moving forward. 

You know, you mentioned something interesting. I want to go back to, you said that you, you, you don't mind this and you don't mind the workouts because it doesn't feel like work. Right. And I think that it's really important that our audience understand that and that we bring a little bit more into that because a lot of times add ADHD. One of the biggest issues with that is that we are as human beings. We are forced into doing things that are, uh, considered normal by everyday standards, but aren't necessarily normal for people like us, for instance, a nine to five job or some kind of work that, uh, You know, we don't necessarily love. Um, and it starts when we're really young, um, as, as, as kids, right. You know, in school where we have to sit there and not move and, and, and, and be told to pay attention, it's difficult for us. But what you said is pretty awesome, because what you mentioned is that if you love it, it doesn't feel like work. It doesn't feel like you need to, you know, you have to do this. It doesn't feel like you have to do this. You're, you're happy to do this. Right. And that's the thing that I'm noticing. Um, And I think we should touch on, because a lot of kids, adults who are just diagnosed ADHD, they haven't realized yet that the reason they're quote unquote not good at school or the reason they're quote unquote, not happy with, with their job, whatever it is because they're being forced to do something that isn't necessarily normal for them, even though it is for many other people, you know, along the premise of I became an entrepreneur because I didn't play well with others.

Right. And sitting in the office from nine to five, wasn't my thing. Precisely. And this is why I'm like, when I figured this out, it really made everything click into place of like, because I had spent my, the majority of my twenties trying to do that, like Trump, when I'm wondering what was wrong with me of like, why do I hate sitting in front of this, like computer being at this.

Like going to the same place every single day and having to be there from nine to five, like, why is this so torturous? And I, my brain is not there. Like I'm incredibly inefficient at work. And, um, and so when I discovered triathlon, it totally took over my brain space and then I was getting nothing done at work. And, uh, and so. It. Yeah, it really was. It has now given me permission to, to, and I think this is what I, from listening to your podcast as well, and, and hearing about all of these other folks who have made these incredible careers, um, out of like, yeah, doing, having their own schedule, being their own boss. And this is one of the biggest things that I've been saying throughout my career. Now, when I, when I, now, when I'm thinking about like, what am I going to do when I'm not able to perform at this level? And I have to. It's figure out a new career. I have these now stipulations. 

Absolutely. I cannot go to the same place every day. I probably can't have a boss. I absolutely can't sit in front of a computer for eight hours a day and I definitely cannot work nine to five. I can't have a set schedule. I need to work on my time. One of the things about COVID, um, has for me anyway, has gone, has me, has been me going from 250,000 miles a year on the road on a plane to zero and it required a lot of readjustment, because it's been a very tough ride for me to sort of get to that point where I'm like, okay, I'm not going crazy sitting in front of a computer because that's deliberately what I carved my life out to not do. Right. And all of a sudden, you know, here I am doing that and it's been tough, but I think I've managed.

What are you, um, how has, how has COVID impacted you? I mean, obviously you went, you said you went to Daytona a couple weeks ago to race. I wanna hear about that, but how did you, how have you survived, been surviving the last nine months? 

Well, truly, um, I live in an incredible place. So BC is so beautiful. And in my, in the recent years, I've gotten a lot more into gravel writing and really I have just, I basically pivoted. So, you know, it took me out of the really structured training, but that, but now I was able to like, kind of do some of the things that I I'd always wanted to do. W, you know, athletic, you basically use my fitness to go and have adventures. So I went and spent a week in the riding gravel in the Rocky mountains. I went up to Northern BC and did a bunch of gravel riding and, um, basically just. And then exploring the trails here, um, in, in our, in, in my neighborhoods, like we have incredible mountains here. Uh, and so it was really about creating a structure in a different way and tapping into some of those, like, I love adventure and I have like these huge goals of, of doing ultra distance things in my future and so it was a little bit of a, you know, starting to explore a bit of that. 

Well, we'll talk about Daytona. What was it like? And it was the first, I mean, I haven't, I haven't done it yet. God's been well over a year now. I was supposed to do Kona this year and that obviously did not happen so hoping for 21, but yeah, I finally get to meet you.

That'd be great. And well, well, if you want to hang out, I mean, I guess if you want to hang out for like another eight hours after you finish, you know, you'll eventually see me cross the other side as well, and then that'd be fun. Um, what, tell me about the experience with, for you. 

Um, Daytona was really incredible. I mean, talk about having something to inspire the world of triathlon into 2021. Um, you know, the, the, the race was such a unique format. It was an incredible field of full of, you know, short course Olympians and long course world champions. And it was an incredibly dynamic race and really unique, I mean, being at the Daytona international Speedway and having the whole course on that, it was incredibly spectator friendly and you got a whole lot of spectator, uh, support and, um, and B it was like, you know, you're going around in a circle 20 times. Of course, uh, it is, uh, it is a really different animal than anything I think that any of us had ever raised. And so you saw, you saw the carnage on the run that, that bike had the toll that it had taken out on all of us. And, um, it was, it was a very, very cool experience even to just like connect with the triathlon community again. You know, we were all socially distanced and masked, but you know, you still felt that, that connection. And I think the response afterwards, I have heard from all over the world of people, just like, I'm so glad that that happened. Um, because it's been really motivating to, to take us into 2021. 

Well, the interesting things about that race, I'd be curious about your opinion, you know, most, most uh, Ironman, most, most half Ironman. You, you, you write a course outside and it's, you know, a set map, right? Like, um, when it, last time I did Atlantic city, it's, you know, you start by the boardwalk and you ride through the streets and you get onto the highway and you read the highway for a while. And then you repeat that three times. And there's your six miles. Um, this was 20 times around, uh, a race track, as you mentioned. And as I was watching it, I was, I was chatting with a bunch of my, my, my triathlon friends. And they're like, Oh my God, it's so boring. I'd kill myself this way. My first thought was. Actually that's awesome because my ADHD brain looking at it that way is able to count down. That's okay. 20. Okay. 19. Okay. 18. And to me, my God, I feel like every track I'm going to be that. 

Yeah. I mean that, I was actually, I loved that aspect of it because I mean, that's what you have to do with those big efforts is like, you know, take them down into smaller blocks and it was so easy to do. And exactly like, it was basically just like having that song on repeat just like going, going, you know? And, and so it really allowed me to do. But a hyper-focus and that those two hours on the bike went by in a flash. It was incredible. 

Yeah. And that's, like I said, that's probably, to me that would have been the best part because, you know, I remember Cozumel full Ironman and even that was three times a week around, um, the Island. Right. And it was flat, but it was still three times. And so even. Even with the headwinds, which were just, Oh my God, I wouldn't wish on anybody. Even with that. I remember thinking, okay. Three, okay. Two. Okay. One, but it was still 33, 30, six, 33 miles a piece. I feel like 20 times around would have been a lot. Cause it's a much less mileage. It would have been easier for the brain to break down. Cause that's really the first time we ever start running. Right. And so, okay. I just wanna get to that light post right. The second time. Okay. I just want to get to that tree. Okay. I just wanna do a mile and you know, I, I think that as human creatures, we just do that. And when you're ADHD, it actually benefits you that much more because you in your head it's, I mean, how many times have you run a race where you're trying to calculate what your time's going to be? Okay. If I could do this X mile and X, X minutes, then the mile after that would be nine minutes and that, you know, and then if I do the run right every time on the bike, I'm like, okay, if I can get this time with a bike that gives me.

You know, I could say I could walk X hours. Right. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I would argue in Cozumel too, I've done that race twice. Uh, that those three loops you can actually divide those loops into four bits, like jungle part. You've got the bottom part. You've got the windy part. You got the town part. Yeah. I am. I'm scared to death about Kona. I'm gonna have to get, I'm going to get there a week earlier and do exactly that like 10 miles a piece. Okay. This is 10 miles of this is the 10 minutes, you know, just to make it through, but. Tell me, um, what would you suggest? 

So, so it's obvious that that, that, that exercise is, is sort of the best potential fixer for ADHD, add and ADHD, the best thing to keep it used as an advantage. So knowing that, what do you, what's the one piece of advice you'd give to listeners when you, when they say it, uh, you know, I just, I don't exercise. I'm too fat. I'm too thin up to this. I've never done it before, whatever, what's the first, the only, the best advice you can give to them that says, Hey, here's why you can do this. Or how to start it or whatever. Yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. I mean, I think first of all, um, you need to choose something that you, that you enjoy. Like if you hate running, don't start running, like find something that you find interesting. Like whether that's like, maybe you love to dance. So like, you know, doing the Zumba classes or whatever, um, and setting a setting a schedule, like having something accountable. And so, you know, and. You know, really that breaking it down into that smaller bits of like, okay, let's just do this for three weeks. Or like, let's just do this for a week. Let's do two workouts this week. And then, you know, two workouts this week and try and set that structure and set that accountability. I think those two, those three things are the most important something you enjoy having a structure and having accountability. 

That was a great quote, quick left, final question. Um, make this a lightning round. What is your favorite? Your one piece of tech that you can't train or race without? Um, you know, honestly right now, it's my Loop. Uh, my heart rate, variability monitor. I live and breathe by this attracts everything attracts my workouts attracts my sleep, but yeah, everything. What's your resting heart rate. If you comfortable telling us, uh, my resting heart rate, it's usually around 54. 

Crazy. Okay. That's that's I, all of a sudden, I don't feel anywhere near as out of shape as I should be. Cause that's, that's the same as mine, so I feel pretty awesome right now. I'm not going to put an Ironman. That's okay. Um, final question. Uh, if you had to, if you were forced to live in one place by yourself for six months, with only three items, what would they be? 

Three items. Um, Pair of running shoes. Um, Oh gosh, three items, a pair of running shoes. I mean, I have to say my bike and, um, coffee. 

Hah! Great answers. I like that. Very, very cool. Thank you so much, guys. Listening to Rach McBride, a phenomenal interview. I definitely want to have you back before Kona. If nothing else would talk me off the ledge. So I'm looking forward to that. 

I will repeat really fast. My favorite, um, story that came out of my first time. And I was, uh, I had been running, uh, an internet company that had gotten some. President was pretty popular back then called help a reporter out. And, um, people that used it and thousands, a hundred thousand people use it. One of the people that use it was, was the head of, um, uh, public relations for jelly belly. Um, and Joey makes sport beans and I'm sure you've, you know, sport games. And so they, I, I mentioned in one of my emails, my love of scorpions, and they sent me a jersey, um, that said, um, that all of it had pictured jelly beans all over the other. It's gorgeous. I've worn it for like, everybody's sort of done it. So. Um, I'm sitting on the docks because it has, I'm a waiting for the race to repair like 5:00 AM. I couldn't sleep. I got up early, went down there, you know, and I'm just sitting, watching the water, the chilled water, I see a Manatee. I'm like, Oh, it looks like me. And, um, you know, I'm just watching, watching any, uh, a German triathlete, obviously a pro, um, comes over to me and says, ah, he sees my shirt. He goes, I see you to a sponsored athlete. Um, Yeah, they gave me a shirt and he goes, well, you know, this is, this is good. This is good. This is it'd be good. Good to race against other professionals. Are you, are you, are you hoping to place? He actually looked at me and asked me if I was hoping to place. Um, and I looked at him and of course it's wearing a shirt, says D’avella. Yeah. Right. Obviously sponsored by sir. Um, I noticed from your shirt, you're sponsored by D’avella one of the, obviously the fast triathalon bikes in the world. Sir, if you look at my shirt and then see I’m sponsored by fucking candy, and I'm not hoping to place, he goes with, what is your time goal? I go, it's the same day. I need you to just go over there. And that was how I started my first iron man German guy asked me if I was trying to place in the race. So it was, it was, it was a fun experience. But, uh, thank you so much for taking the time to come out today, to talk to us. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again, and we got so much more. We need even get to talk about your, your, your other skills, all that stuff. So that's going to have to come up next. We'll definitely have you back in like a month or so. And then we'll, we'll do this again. Amazing. I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much. Happy training and stay safe guys, Faster Than Normal is here for you. We want to know what you think as, as, um, I'm recording this probably like 13 days. So the end of the year, we're hoping that 2021 is a better year. I want to know who you want to hear. Um, you, uh, Rachel actually came suggested to us from a mutual friend. So if you have anyone you think who has ADHD or just an interesting person, has a story to tell about diversity. Do you think they should be in the podcast? I'd love to hear from them. Should have them shoot me an email. peter@shaman.com or shoot me an email. Introduce us whatever the case may be. We're looking for great guests in 2021. Like we've had for the past four years. Thank you all for listening. I appreciate it.

Stay safe. Stay healthy. Wear the mask. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We'll see you soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Today’s episode is a little bit about a shape shifting box named “Shashibo” and a lot about ADD + ADHD.  Kevin Daniels is a South Floridian, born and raised in Miami, FL, attended High School and College in Palm Beach, and currently lives in Fort Lauderdale. He spent a lot of his youth surfing and skateboarding. He graduated from Florida Atlantic University with a degree in Marketing which he put to use in the Pharmaceutical industry where he had spent most of his working career in Sales and Sales Management until he left that career to focus 100% on Fun In Motion Toys, the business He and his business partner Jimi Dennison built over the past decade. Both Kevin and Jimi never really intended to build a toy company and were simply motivated by the mission of spreading the physical and mental benefits of Poi through the Spinballs product they developed. However, one thing led to another and here they are with several award winning products including the two time Toy of the Year finalist Shashibo. One thing that all of the Fun In Motion Toys products have in common are the bonus of having physical and mental benefits as well as being fun. Both Kevin and Jimi have found these products to help them cope with their own stresses including things like ADD/ADHD in their own lives. They are big believers in the power of play at any age and even enjoy activities like Juggling, Fire performance and going to concerts and music festivals including attending Burning Man.

Jimi graduated with a CS degree and met Kevin while working in South Florida. Together they took a hobby, poi, and created the business Spinballs to share the activity with the world. Since that time the company has added several products and Jimi relocated closer to where he grew up, outside of DC. Despite the distance they continue to push Fun In Motion Toys forward. Today we’re talking about one of their awesome products Shashibo, as well as how their product line is helping folks who are Neurodiverse- Enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter, Kevin Daniels & Jimi Dennison discuss:

1:20-  Intro and welcome Kevin and Jimi!

2:24-  Explain it in such a way that people understand why I'm so in love with your toy Shashibo

4:30-  So how did you guys come up with the, see your, I know one of you or both of your ADHD?

6:52-  At what point did your brain say: Hey, this would make a fun toy! How did it come to fruition?

9:40-  Have you received feedback from people with a neurodiverse brain, ADD, tactile, things like that?

13:50- What do you look for when you say, hey that's going to make a cool toy; we need this in our repertoire. Like, the Wandini looks pretty awesome too!

16:30-  Is there a ton of demand for Shashibo right now?

17:27-  On therapeutic toys. Interview Ref: More Play, Less Problems?? With Dr. Debbie Rhea

17:06-  How can people find you?  Via her website: www.FunInMotionToys.com and @FunInMotionToys on Facebook  INSTA and YouTube  #FunInMotionToys

19:30-  Thank you Kevin and Jimi! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

20:02-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

PS: If you're looking for that special gift this holiday season for someone in your life who has ADD, ADHD, or any kind of neurodiverse brain, how about a conversation with me? I've finally been convinced to join Cameo, where you can request videos, shout-outs, birthday greetings, even a one-on-one talk about how ADHD is a superpower! You can find me on Cameo here!​

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hello everyone. My name is Peter Shankman. You are listening to Faster Than Normal. We believe that ADHD is a gift, not a curse and that all forms of neurodiversity are valid. We're glad you're here. 

It is another episode coming to you live from my apartment because, well, it's almost the end of 2020, and no one freaking goes anywhere anymore. We all just sit at home and stare at a computer, which I suppose is. Not much different than what we did a year ago. We just did it somewhere else. Now we're here. This is everyone. Jerry Seinfeld, that a bit about that. Where, where, where, when you're out, that's out, everyone says, Oh, they went out. This is what they're doing. So I guess this is where we are right now. Anyway. Good to be here. 

We are talking to Kevin Daniels and Jimmy Dennison. They are the founders of Fun In Motion Toys, which is a really cool company I met them through an old friend; a guy named Barry Schwartz, who is my PR mentor all the way back in the day. Like we're talking like late nineties here, early, early back in the day. But Kevin and Jimmy built a company called Fun In Motion. I found out about them because Barry, who knows that I am ADHD, he said, Peter, I'm sending you something. You're going to love this. It's called the Shashibo, which I just found out a few minutes ago. Uh, Oh, I'll let I'll let them tell you what it is, but it's this really cool thing that I've been playing with them and literally can not put that out. It's sitting right here on my desk. I'm not gonna play with it during the interview because you'll hear it. It'll it'll, it'll take all the noise and, and you'll hear it. Anyway. Kevin and Jimmy welcome- glad to have you. 

Thank you. Thanks for having us. 

So explain first of all, what the sushi is and, and, and, and explain it in such a way that people understand why I'm so in love with this.

Okay, well, I'll try and do that. And Jimmy can cut in, but, uh, Barry, by the way, who you mentioned actually is the man who did the Rubik's cube. Oh, I love well aware. Yeah. So he launched a Rubik's cube. He came to us at toy fair this year and he was like, I got to work with you guys. And we were like, yes, you do. And it's been awesome. So basically think of a cube, but instead of trying to solve it, what this does is it opens up into over 70 geometric shapes. So it looks like a cube and you can open it up in a shapes, like an actual star where it has points six points. It can things we call the hive. It can create into a dodecahedron ball, which is the inverse of the complete outside of the cube and there's all this geometric, it's like, there's a little bit of math. It's, you know, people talk about STEAM and steam, right? Science, technology, engineering, art, math, and this has a little bit of all of that. It's got the symmetry of art. We even have an artist series working with the godfather, or the father of digital art Laurence Gartel. He made some limited edition. He taught Andy Warhol had a new digital art. So that's the kind of guy he's, he's serious. Um, so awesome Art symmetry. Then you have the math, which is the geometry. Uh, you also have the science of the magnets. There's 36 rare earth magnets in each of these, which are small, strong magnets that allow it to hold its shape; otherwise it would just crumble. And then the other side benefit is you learn about polarity of the science of the magnets, because you can combine multiple Shashibo’s to create larger structures. So it becomes infinite. Um, and it's really mind blowing when people it's unfortunate in this medium, it's all verbal, but it's like when you see it visually, it really is stunning and mind blowing. I mean, that's the common reaction is people can't believe it. And, uh, you know, there is the, I said the structural part, so that's almost like the engineering side. There isn't so much technology. And in fact, that's one of the benefits is it's getting people off of their technology for a change to do something creative, to work together or by themselves. So we're excited. It's been great. 

We'll uh, we'll put a couple of pictures and, or video if we can find it, um, into the, uh, Into the podcast. You'll see it, uh, on the, on the show host on the show notes page, [PICTURE HERE] but, uh, yeah, it's a phenomenal, phenomenal, uh, toy. I've been having a blast with it. Certainly a lot of fun. So how did you guys come up with the, see your, I know one of you or both of your ADHD? 

Well, I mean, I guess we both have our own little things, but in, in my particular, it was just kind of funny how this happened because you had, I don't think he had, we didn't work together, come on this podcast because of it, but I have to say, and it's not something I think about a lot, but I definitely have that adult ADD, ADHD. So when I was a kid, I even look back and I think it's probably, I don't keep up with the whole community of ADD ADHD, but I'm thinking there's a common, uh, acceptance that. Decades ago. It wasn't so known. And when I was the kid in school who threw the compass that stuck up into the ceiling of the classroom, going to the principal's office, I have a feeling that was my add ADHD acting up. And later on in life, as I had careers, I was in the pharmaceutical industry as a sales rep. And I was going to mention this, but, you know, I had times where paperwork would definitely overwhelm me. I did go see somebody about it. And he prescribed Adderall and I did it for a little while. And then I felt like, you know what? I don't know if it's, like you said, it's not necessarily a curse. Sometimes it's a blessing. I feel like all the things I've accomplished in my life are probably fueled by me battling with my ADD ADHD. And I don't know if I'd really want to change that I'm, I'm driven. I'm not as efficient as I could be, I stay up really late. But I get things done. So I've learned to work with it. And I feel like there are career paths out there for people who can actually harness this, uh, you know, this ability, it's almost like a superpower, even though some people may see it as a negative, but I think there's different ways to approach it. So I didn't know this was going to come up, but here you go. 

Well, the fact that you understand it, um, and that you understand, you know, how to take, how to use it to your advantage. Uh, you know, you mentioned that that the majority of your successes and things like that have to do with, uh, you know, your ADHD and that's a theme that you hear, uh, and almost every single one of our guests, this is that, you know, once we realize, Hey, here's our differences and we learn how to embrace them. You know, things got a lot better and, and, and, and our, our, our, our lights shown. Or shined as it were, they were able to, uh, to, you know, we were able to really come out of our shell and, and, and do the things that we were capable of doing. 

Um, tell me about one of the things I found really interesting. Um, when you. Decide to create. And I just, this fascinates me, right? I don't have, I have the design skills turnip. Right? I do not have any designs. So thank God. My, my daughter takes after her mother in that regard because I cannot, I couldn't drive here and saved my life. And you know, I, I look at, uh, Sashibo and playing with it. How did you come up with something like that? What, what, what, at what point did your brain say, Hey, this would make a fun toy. Right? How did it come to fruition? 

Yeah, I have to say it's a little different than you might be suggesting. It's, uh, I didn't invent it. Um, but what we did do is we have a connection of friends and people just along the way that at one thing's fallen into the, into place seat along the way, just as we met with Barry, as you mentioned, but. Uh, you know, Jimmy and I started over 10 years ago with a product called spin balls. That was our first toy. And it was just a ball on a string it's Poi, if anybody knows it goes back hundreds of years, the Maori people of New Zealand. So there was nothing out there that was really affordable, accessible. It had led lights that w you know, the ones I had would break, they were expensive. So it kind of started us down this path because we love the physical, mental benefits of Poi, and that's still a mission of ours, but as we got into it, one, two, our first toy fair. Just one thing led to another and we ended up with this other toy mosey. And then last year we launched a Sheba and Wandini and we have other products on the, in the future that we want to come up with ourselves, or we have, you know, connections with people. So Sheba specifically as an inventor, Andreas Hoenigschmid, he's from Germany lives in California in Venice beach. She's an artist mathematician. We just have a lot of things in common. And that's how we met was through our, we do fire performance. Uh, we've gone to burning man. We're in all kinds of weird stuff, you know? Um, but it's just so happens to connect it. He was working on this and just didn't have a way to get it out there and it fits so perfectly into what we were already doing. And I guess the rest is history, but it's his invention and creation. He's got even more things, uh, for the future that we're going to work on.

My daughter is, is fascinated with it. Um, she brought it to school today and I'm curious to see if she actually makes it home with it because, uh, chances are, you know, every kid is going to kind of wanna play with it. We had a play date. She's seven she's, seven years old, seven and a half. She had a play date last week and, um, they were supposed to have a pool in my building and they sat, you know, thanks to COVID you have to make reservations now right. And if they're five o'clock reservation, they were 30 minutes late to it because they sat. In, in my apartment that they would not stop playing with this then. And, uh, it was, you know, I'm like guys, cool. I've never had it. I've never had to convince my kid to go to the pool. But, um, I personally, I love it. 70 different shapes. Um, it's a lot of fun. The fun is trying to get, get it back to the square that it starts at. 

But, um, do you find that, have you gotten feedback from people, um, with a neuro-diverse brain. So ADD tactile, things like that, where they talk about it because I immediately saw. Uh, the benefit in it from my mind, just to keep it in my hands and have something to touch and to play with and to, you know, make shapes with, as I'm working, as I'm talking, as I'm doing whatever.

Yeah. Actually I want to, I want to get Jimmy in on the conversation, but if I can just start it, we've gotten numerous emails over the last several months. I mean, we had one that was like a 12 year old who said that she was in Northern California and was dealing with a lot of things, the anxiety, because of both the lockdown from the pandemic, and also the fact that there were wildfires in her, not from her home. So her and her kid, her, her and her brother and sisters were using the Shashi. No, I mean, they were just basically thanking us and saying how great it's been for them as a way to deal with the stress. And I mean, that's pretty powerful hearing it from a 12 year old and, uh, they wanted to, they were saving up money to get into another one. So we sent them one for free just for like, why not, you know, how can you not? And, and we were just thankful, but we've heard more and more of this anecdotally. 

So I actually, my background, as I said, it was in pharmaceutical. So I have friends that are involved in clinical research. So I've heard everything anecdotally from use in autism, uh, ADHD, as well as, um, Alzheimer's, I mean, we've actually heard and at the toy fair this year there were several physical therapists that deal with adults and, and, and, um, Alzheimer's that have seen benefits. So all of our toys, it's not strictly Shashibo, but that is our, our biggest best, but all of them have a little bit of a sensory therapy effect, which is why we're actually looking to launch a fund emotion, health website, which would allow us to pinpoint that once we have more clinical data to support it right now it’s anecdotal. But I think it's obvious in some ways, but if I could let me throw it to Jimmy, because he's really involved in that and I wanted to let him chime in a bit. If you don't mind. 

Yeah, thanks, Kevin. Um, well I guess the, that you mean is the fund emotion, health website, and that's a, a work in progress. Like he said, we were kind of gathering what anecdotal evidence there is to just maybe draw, um, a nice picture across all of our products and each one of them has a little bit of a different story. Uh, but specifically to the Shashibo, I think the one story that really hope to me and convince me that it was worthy of promoting the line, you know, we're, we're a toy company, so we're primarily focused on promoting ourself as boys the whole time we've recognized that there's a much bigger value in the type of play. And, and that's a, that's a big conversation, but. Um, running fund emotion, health as a, as a business was only, um, really apparent with the Shashibo or hearing. For instance, there was, uh, a lady working with a gentleman with Alzheimer's. She described that, um, as his functioning declined and I guess this isn't exactly the topic of add or ADHD, but in terms of therapeutic use, as  its functioning declined. His hands use declined to the point of very stopped using, um, pencils. They couldn't get him to engage with things in a useful way, putting them down. And after a couple of weeks of playing with the Shashibo, which is amazing unto itself that he didn't put it down. Uh, he, he actually picked up a pencil again. So there's just, I don't know. I might not have realized the full depth of it when I first picked it up, but there's a lot of people who have, and, um, it's pretty awesome. 

One of the interesting things I noticed looking on your website is you, you, it's not just, I mean, there aren't you, so glow toys, fidget toys, um, the glow toys actually look really cool. What happens? What are your, are your, um, what, how do I phrase this? What are your, uh, what do you look for when you say, Hey, that's going to make a cool toy. Like, I mean, the, the, the, um, what am I looking at right here? The, uh, the Wandini looks pretty awesome. Right. And it seems like a lot of fun. What do you look for when you say, okay, this is, we need this in our repertoire.

Yeah. You know, some of the things we have or just things that existed, but just were not made available to the mainstream. So we're into like a lot of like juggling Jimi and I juggle, we do all these,  we get access and exposure to things that not everybody sees. So, you know, with spin balls, which is the Poi, that's something that was more like, uh, you'd see at music festivals, there weren't that many people who are really into it, but we saw the benefits for kids and all of that and we were like, we really want to make something. So that's what we did is we created and we got patents on our design that made it so unique, but it's not the point in the existed had been around for hundreds of years, like I said, so the wand actually comes from the dancing cane magic trick that had been around for a long, long time as well. But as far as doing it in an LED fashion and also collapsible where you can break it apart, this has never been done. So this was our motivation, but the one thing that also ties it all together is the cost and the price point, like we have different toys. Like our things are premium, more quality. We don't just put out schlocky stuff like just to make money. It's like, these are things that motivate us that we like playing with ourselves when we go to a fair, like toy fair, or spending the day, just playing with these enjoying demonstrating. Cause we enjoy doing it. And it's awesome to see people's reactions. So, you know, constantly we're looking for things that fit that mold that we want to play with ourselves first off. And then we have to decide, is this something that makes sense? You know, just this weekend I had an epiphany that, you know, nobody's making a, an affordable led, juggling ball, everything out there is either garbage and, and, and, you know, you get what you pay for, or they're very expensive on the high end. So with our Poi, we can make a version of that simply and put it out there. Juggling is a big market so that these are there's things that pop into my head, but we have like unique can interesting new toys, like Shashibo that nobody's seen before. And we plan on continuing to add those. 

I would definitely suggest that you guys are a, uh, I, there's no question that you guys go to burning man. I can hear it in everything you say. I also think you guys would make great skydivers because there's always someone at the drops zone spinning the goddamn fire. Always, always someone’s.. but very, very cool. Um, so the, the website is, uh, www.FunInMotionToys.com Right? I do know that the Shashibo was sold out currently on your site. So I'm assuming that by the time this airs, that will be, that will be rectified and there'll be more. Is there, is there a massive demand for it right now?

Uh, I'd say so. It was, um, you know, we kind of expected it, but we're really only now finally realizing the potential. I mean, we, we, we went into it realizing at first there was a lot of people who, you know, downed it, who didn't realize, or didn't. I see, like, why is this not $7? And that's a common thing. This should be like all the other cheap cubes. Right. But they don't get the fact that this is, you know, the, the, the magnets without them. It can't, it wouldn't exist. And the magnets are not cheap. In fact, our costs just went up, but we're keeping our costs to the consumer the same, but our costs are fluctuating because rare magnets are kind of a commodity that are, you know, It's not that they're hard to find and that they're limited, it's just, it's a misnomer, but there is definitely some fluctuation in the cost and, and it makes it a little bit challenging. So, um, anyway, I think I lost my train of thought here. You were asking about, uh,

Haha, a little ADD there. No, it's, um, you know, the second you touch it, you feel that it's not, it's not just the cheap, uh, you know, it's not just something you get in a, uh, in a jack in the box , you know, to think, but no, I'm very, very cool. So, so fundamental toys.com. I really appreciate you guys taking the time it's we are just, just starting to learn, um, all the therapeutic, uh, possibilities that toys, um, allow for in, in add adult, add ADHD, uh, autism kids on the spectrum, uh, executive function. Y’know. we're, we're really starting to see more and more of that. We've had a couple of people on the, um, on the podcast, a couple of doctors who have, who have talked about, uh, the aspect of play and how we really don't have enough of it in our lives, especially, uh, when we become adults, there was a, we had a, we had a scientist [Dr. Debbie Rhea interview] who did a study, um, in Texas where they, they increased school district, they increased, um, Uh, recess from 30 minutes a day to 90 minutes a day. And they saw a massive, massive drop in ADHD outbursts from boys and also a massive increase in girls paying attention of wanting to speak out in class. So we were just, just at the tip of it. So I think you guys are, I think you guys are doing something really cool and, uh, you're in the right place at the right time. So we can definitely get you guys back on again. Uh, sometime the next six, six or seven months that we'll see how, how you're doing and what you're doing next that makes I'm looking forward to that. 

Yeah, we appreciate that, that’s great. One thing get dimension is that, you know, you're asking about the success of it. So this is last year. It was up for toy of the year, which is like kind of the Oscars of the toy industry. So it's a big deal. We were up against Mattel and Hasbro and all the big guys. Lego, et cetera. Um, we didn't win, but we were a finalist which was pretty exciting. And then this year we're up for toy of the year again. So, uh, the Artist Series is nominated. So we're hoping to hopefully win. That would be a big deal for a smaller toy company like ourselves. But that gives you an example. I mean, it's been recognized and that's, you know, that's awards, but then on the, you know, the other side, we just, I hate to promote Amazon, we do great on our website. Go to RunInMotionToys.com, but I'll tell you what, we can't even keep it in stock. I mean, we're in the top 100 of toys on Amazon and that's out of hundreds of thousands. So I was just like, that's really so shocking to us. Like, it's amazing how, uh, how well it's being received. So I appreciate your mentioning it and supporting it. That is great to hear. No, it's a lot of fun, uh, guys from the FunInMotionToys.com. Check it out. It's  so let me get it right. Wait. So I see both. It's actually about, and it stands for shape shifting box, right? I'm telling you just like Nolita. Awesome. 

Very, very cool. Kevin and Jimmy, thank you guys for taking the time to me and passing early. I appreciate it. Uh, it was great to hear from you guys, like I said, we'll have you back guys, listen to past the normal as always, if you like what you hear, you have to leave us a review because the more you leave us a review for more podcasts, we can produce have a wonderful week and we will see you guys next week.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

René Brooks has taken a late-life diagnosis and used it to uplift others. After being diagnosed with ADHD 3 times (age 7, 11, and 25), at 25 she was able to get the treatment she deserved. She is the founder of Black Girl, Lost Keys, a blog that empowers black women with ADHD and shows them how to live well with the disorder. In addition to Black Girl, Lost Keys, René has written for Healthline and is a Patient Contributor to TEVA Pharmaceutical’s Life Effects project. She has spoken at The International Alliance Of Patients Organization’s 8th Annual Congress. Today we’re talking about what led to her diagnosis, how she now uses ADHD as her super power, working with your brain instead of against it, and about what it’s like to be a gifted person of color who happens to have ADHD.  This is awesome- enjoy!!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & René Brooks discuss:

00:54-  Intro and welcome Rene

2:07-  So you grew up in the 1990’s, and you’ve been diagnosed 3 times now. Tell us how that played out?

4:00-  So your diagnosis wasn’t really complete, or helpful in the way it was provided?

5:30-  On the testing gifted kids in the 90’s

6:05-  What prompted your third diagnoses at age 25?

7:50-  So when you got properly diagnoses at 25, was that a lightbulb moment for you?

8:30-  About the wrong labels… 

9:09-  What are you doing to make ADHD your superpower?

10:18-  Talk about ADHD and being black

11:00-  On stereotypes, race, and being neurodiverse

12:00-  What kinds of things are you teaching your readers on your GREAT blog Black Girl, Lost Keys

13:24-  On control versus being the control, and working differently

14:30-  Society’s way or working, is not often our best way of working

15:54-  Working with your brain instead of against it

17:06-  How can people find you?  Via her website: www.blackgirllostkeys.com  and @blkgirllostkeys on Twitter and Facebook  

17:30-  Thank you Rene! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

18:14-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

PS: If you're looking for that special gift this holiday season for someone in your life who has ADD, ADHD, or any kind of neurodiverse brain, how about a conversation with me? I've finally been convinced to join Cameo, where you can request videos, shout-outs, birthday greetings, even a one-on-one talk about how ADHD is a superpower! You can find me on Cameo here!​

TRANSCRIPT: 

My name is Peter Shankman. You are listening to Faster Than Normal, and I have been told to change how I introduce every episode. So that is exactly what I'm doing. I hope you're happy, Steven, my producer. [Yes, I am & thank you- and your voice sounds better too now btw]. Okay. Welcome to faster than normal today on the podcast, we are talking to a woman named Rene Brooks. Rene Brooks took a late in life diagnosis and uses it to uplift others. She was being diagnosed ADHD at three times, age seven, 11 and 25. I'm guessing the first two didn't stick at 25. She's able to get the treatment she deserved finally. And then she went and founded Black Girl, Lost Keys, a blog that empowers black women with ADHD and shows them how to live well with the disorder and managed to say, this is sorely needed. In addition to black girl, lost keys Rene has written for Healthline, and she's a patient contributor to Tiba pharmaceuticals, life effects, project she's spoken at conferences. She talks about ADHD. She talks about ADHD and what it's like. For a black woman and I am so excited to have you on the podcast because this is a new, uh, uh, category for us. And I'm thrilled that you're able to lead it off and I'm thrilled that we can have you on it. So, Renee, welcome. 

Thank you. Thank you so much for the invite. I really appreciate it. I see. We gave you the long version of the Bio. I’ve yeah. I've had to tell my assistant to narrow mine down to about 140 characters and you know, nothing more than that as I'm listening, I'm like, uh, we gave him the long version.

So growing up, you were diagnosed at age seven. Do you mind if I ask how old you are? I'm 36. So you're about 10 years old or 12 years older than me. And they were totally young, younger than me brother. And so, um, you grew up in, in nineties. And by that time, they had a pretty, a bit of like a, you know, a handle of sort of, at least the name of what ADHD was.

It wasn't so much as, Hey, this kid's hyper sit him down or sit her down, you know, and, and, and hope for the best. So at least they had some knowledge because if you were diagnosed at age seven, you know, there was, there was an idea of what was going on. Um, why three diagnosis. So the problem is when you take someone's child and you test them without their permission, and you do that to a person whose community has been marginalized and experimented at one by people who are in charge of social services and medicine. They're not trying to hear it when you do that to their kid. Um, it really was quite a violation and they didn't do it once they did it twice. And so both times you get from when you were at the age seven age 11, now neither of those tests were sort of authorized by you by your parents, by anyone, right?

Wow. So where was this? 

Uh, I grew up in Pennsylvania in, uh, right outside of Harrisburg in, uh, in a little town called, uh, Carlisle. Okay. So, uh, actually you, you may or may not have heard of it. It's um, it's also the site of, uh, the army war college. Uh, there is a, um, just school. There was a school there for what we now call indigenous people. It was called the Carlisle Indian school and they brutalized indigenous people there. So it's an interesting place. Lots of history. Wow. I cannot, I can't complain about, uh, the schooling I received there or anything, but that was what happened and you were diagnosed, but it wasn't actually that it was, it was your parents or they just didn't listen because of, of, of what the expectations were to begin with. Well, you know, they, here's how I feel about it. They didn't give them the information that they needed to make an informed decision. They were basically attacked. So you, you can't. Um, when, when I tell that story, a lot of times people are like, Oh wow, your parents just didn't want to get you treatment. That's not what happened at all. What happened was a decision was taken out of their hands as parents and they reacted. And they reacted appropriately. I must say if I had been given the exact same scenario, although I have the advantage of the internet now, so I can do my own digging and my own research and find out things they didn't have access to information at their fingertips, the way we do. I imagine that it must've been so, so growing up there was obviously something quote, unquote, different about you. Right. And I don't, I don't see different. I don't say different is a bad thing. I've learned that this is not a bad thing, but no, the added sort of, sort of, uh, uh, you had to deal with essentially being black and, and everything that came with that. And then on top of that, you know, here's a hyperactive or, or a attention deficit type child showing all the classic symptoms of that, that must've been, it couldn't have been easy. It wasn't. And then you, you lump in the fact that I was like, me being tested was not unique because I was designated as gifted. And if you were gifted in the nineties, all they did was pull you out of class to test you for something. So, you know what I mean? It's like every other day it's like, let's throw some flashcards in their face. Let's ask them some questions. In their ear, constant, constant barrage of tests. So it wasn't like whatever they did to evaluate me for ADHD was not abnormal enough for me to go home and be like, Hey, they tested me for something today because I was always being tested for something. 

As you got older, um, the, the final diagnosis came at 25. Talk about that. What prompted that? And was it, was it about that?

I kind of had a, there's no such thing as a nervous breakdown. Right. But I guess, you know, that's what, when people get extremely depressed and kind of fall flat and like, I guess that's what we still call it. Um, so I was, uh, working for one of the biggest health insurers in the state, a lot of pressure in the job and I just completely. When downhill mental health leave from work. And, um, while I was out on that mental health leave, about six months into that, they were treating me for depression. And of course I wasn't getting any relief. And I just so happened to mention to my therapist one day, like, yeah, when I was a kid, they tried to say that I had Some kind of ATB, I guess, and put me on medicine and my mother be so bad and she stopped me mid sentence. And she was like, what did you say? I'm like, Oh yeah, you know, blah, blah, blah. And she, she was, she just picked up a notepad and started scrambling said, go down the hallway. Hey, uh, with my colleague, he's an ADHD specialist and then come back and see me after you've met the pen and send me away for the day. And I went down the hallway, met with him. I knew that I had ADHD and then kind of rolled me down the path to where I am today. 

So when you were finally diagnosed at 25 and everything, did everything make sense? Was this like a light bulb moment for you? 

Okay. So for me, it was a light bulb moment because, um, because I had an identifier when, when you have a lot of people, ascribed negativity to the word label, for me, there was freedom in the label because that label gave me access to information, resources, other people who were having the same experience that I had. And society slaps a label on you, whether or not, you know it. So the label that often gets slept on ADHD. People is irresponsible, lazy, unreliable, undependable. Um, so there's a lot more labels that come with undiagnosed, ADHD than just ADHD. I'll take the ADHD label, those other ones. Are pretty shitty. 

No question about it. It must've been a wake up call. Um, every everyone, uh, has, has, has said that, you know, when they find out they finally have a name yeah. That you said there's a name for this thing. And that that's what happened to me too, you know? And Holy crap, all my weirdest has a name. It was, it was a great feeling. Let's let's switch the conversation. So, so it's been 11 years since you got diagnosed. And what are you doing to sort of make ADHD your superpower? 

So for me, I, um, I still do therapy. I do meds, meds are not for everybody, but they work well for me. Um, and I have my own business, which allows me to shape my schedule the way that I need. 

You mentioned that you don't, you mentioned you don't own or run your own calendar. That's a trait with people that you see with other people do that. Cause we don't do it well. 

Oh, yeah, no. As soon as, as soon as I reached the level in business where I was able to hire somebody that I knew was going to be the first person I hired, like no more double booking. I mean, we still like, you know, there's human errors, so we still get it wrong sometimes. But for the most part, everything runs smoothly. Although I will say. That I wasn't doing too bad until I got really, really busy. And then once there were a whole bunch of moving pieces, it was like, Oh no, someone else has to go through this.

No, no, I totally totally understand that. Um, okay. So let's sort of talk about, uh, ADHD and being black because it's, you know, It's not something you'd think of as a, to be honest, truthful, I've never thought of the racial divide within ADHD, but you know, after, after reading your site and reading your blog is obviously there. 

It absolutely is there, there is nothing.. just like there's nothing that you can come to in life, no experience without bringing your ADHD. There's no experience I can come to without bringing blackness. So. That experience, that life experience, colors, every other experience that I have. And, um, when you're talking about ADHD specifically, there's the matter of stereotyping that's pushed upon us. So being late, uh, being considered lazy, being late all the time, being disorganized can look a lot like the stereotypes that people put on black people in general that say that they're that they're lazy, that they're unrefined. Um, so those things are very problematic, both within the community where it looks like are you feeding into this stereotype and making the rest of us look bad and outside of the community where people are going, ah, that's exactly what we expected you to be like. 

Wow, that's a really, yeah. I guess, so I never really thought about it. So, so what as, as you know, with your blog, which by the way, I love the name of it. It's brilliant. Um, well, tell us the kind of, of, of things that you're teaching your readers, um, sort of how to understand what they're going through and, and, and, and what they can do to utilize it. Not to, not to be demonized by it. 

On the blog. I talk a lot about how to get through everyday life with ADHD. We talk about cooking and how to clean your house and how to deal with your emotions. Like the real nuts and bolts of it, because I feel like. There's a lot of that information that's lacking. Like a lot of the information on ADHD is very clinical. Here are the symptoms. Here's how they can manifest, but you don't hear a lot of people saying no. Yeah, yeah. Like I have ADHD, but this is how I'm doing life. Like life does not have to be, um, some kind of .. combination of symptoms that you can treat.. you actually can learn and thrive and succeed in spite of whatever your symptoms there are. I feel like people think like I have this symptom it's ADHD, and then they're like, okay, well, you know, that's what it is. That's not what it is. You're it's whatever you say, what you're saying is your, you know, your, your you're turning it around, right. You're not, it's not the end of your life with ADHD. This is the beginning. This is a new way of looking at. How you're going to control your life. 

I I've liked it often to a cell phone in that, um, you know, or a smartphone in that, in that at the end of the day, we make the decision to whether or not we control our smartphone or a smartphone controls us.

Absolutely. Like I think, um, for me, like for me, Knowing that I had ADHD gave me the opportunity to figure out the way that my brain worked and not to try harder, but to try.. different because nobody can say that, like the stereotype about ADHD, people not working, it's not true. We're working 15 times harder than everybody else. We're just not getting results because that's not the way that we can do things. That'll be effective for us. 

I love that. I love what you just said, where. Oh, no, no, of course. I just forgot it. We're working. It's not about working harder. It's about working smarter and that's yeah, I think he's a hundred percent true because we spend so much time because we're, you know, we're brought into this world with the way that quote unquote it's always been done. Right. So, so we sit there and say, well, okay, this is the way they've told us to do it. Why is it working for everyone else and not for us? And we're never really given the thought that, Hey, we can think about how to work this differently. 

Exactly. And when you're able to do it differently, you can see results because you're told, you know, there's only one way that like, society is very rigid in the way they teach people how to do things. There's only one way and that's the right way. And if you don't do it that way, then it's just wrong. Why is it wrong? Because to me, if the job's done, it's done. I don't care how you got there. You could have done it standing on your head for all I care. I have that process. Is your business totally come to me with the job?

Yeah, I love, I love that. I love that because we don't get taught that in school, we have to show our work and if the work doesn't go, isn't the same way. As you know, the way we were taught, it doesn't work. My first job, working for America Online, they let us work whenever we wanted, however, we want, as long as we have the job done and I thought, wow, this is work? This is awesome. Then of course, my second job at a publishing company, we did not get to do that at all. And I'm like, this is Russia. And so it was like, that was, that was sort of the wake up call there. 

So yeah, I get that, you know, the concept of being able to do something because it works for you. I know people who work at four in the morning and stay up all night and work because that's better for them. Right. And you know, I get up at three 30 in the morning to start my day because it's better for me. And I think that if we get rid of. Making it sort of an all for one has to be done this way. We might see a lot better things happening. It's really about learning how to work with your brain instead of against it. Like people tell me that cause I coach on top of everything else. And one of the things that people often come to me with is I need to journal why. Why do you need a journal? And they're like, Oh, well, you know, as when people say that successful people do I don't journal. I don't give two craps about journaling, like in fact, trying to force yourself to journal when you're not a person who journals is a waste of time.

I I've, I've been told that same thing with, um, With meditation. I am sorry. I can't make him meditate. I just can't. I've tried it countless times. Every time I went to getting frustrated and going and having a pizza. And so what I've learned is that my meditation comes from like, you know, skydiving or running, or be on a bicycle or something else that gives me the same end result as other people get through meditation.

There you go. It's all about finding what works for you. You it's, it's your life. You get to make the rules and the rules or whatever you say they are. Amen. We're going to have people find more about you. Where can they go? Uh, they should go to www.blackgirllostkeys.com. They can find me on Twitter. They wouldn't give me all the characters I need to make my name. So it's actually, @blkgirllostkeys on Twitter. I don't know if you enter black girl lost keys in any search engine you'll find me on any social media platform or website that you want. 

I love it. I love it. I love it. Very cool guys. Rene Brooks- black girl lost keys. Thank you so much for taking the time today. I really do appreciate it. Give your dogs a big hug for me and for the rest of the team. And guys, thank you for listening. It's always a pleasure to speak with you. If you enjoy this, you can leave us a review on any of them. Where you download your podcasts. So I could, I suppose, iTunes or Stitcher or Google play or Spotify, or as far as I know, even Amazon Alexa is scared the heck out of my daughter the other day, when I played my own podcast on Alexa, my seven year old went, why are you coming out of the speaker? So that was pretty cool. So as always guys, thank you for listening. We'll see you next week. ADHD is a gift, not a curse.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Stefan Georgi is considered one of the top direct response copywriters in the world and his words have grossed over $700MM via 50+ direct response marketing pieces. This includes numerous direct response pieces that are actively grossing over $10MM a month for both Stefan and his clients. A serial entrepreneur with multiple multimillion dollar companies under his belt, Stefan mentors numerous entrepreneurs and freelancers and through his copywriting programs, Copy Accelerator and RMBC, and his call center business, Turtle Peak. Today we’re talking about how he uses his ADHD and hyper focus to his benefit, every day. Enjoy! 

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Stefan Georgi discuss:

1:52-  Intro and welcome Stefan! 

2:45-  So.. how goes the parenting while working form home going during this pandemic?

4:00-  On the deep zone of focus/work zone- how do you get back into it when interrupted?

5:00-  The daily routine

7:58-  On freedom through discipline 

9:18-  What do you suggest when it comes to staying active and staying at it, in this environment?

10:20-  ADHD in the winter and being diagnosed for a second time 

12:38-  What are some even more basic things you can do that help, say, if you don’t have a pool, etc?

13:34-  How are you thriving in this environment and how are you preventing distraction(s)? Ref:  Pomodoro Technique 

16:06-  How can people find you?  Via his website: www.stefanpaulgeorgi.com and @StefanPaulGeorgi on Facebook  @StefanGeorgi on Twitter  INSTA  Medium and LinkedIN

17:00-  Thank you Stefan! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

17:33-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter, Shankman welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. Thrilled that you're here. As I always am hope you're doing well in this glorious actually kind of rainy looking out the window. It's going to pour pretty soon, but you know what? Hey, still better than the alternative. So glad to have you here, guys. I want to introduce you to Stefan. I am going to screw it up. He just told me five seconds ago, how to pronounce his name and I already forgot. Say say your name- Georgi. I was, I was close guys. Welcome to Stefan. Welcome to step under dry. He is without a doubt. Pretty impressive. He's a father who has ADHD, right. He faces his own battles being, working dad during quarantine, but it's pretty impressive what he's managed to do, you know, I mean, look, we've all, we've all gotten screwed over the past eight months, right? I mean, I remember when this y'all a couple of weeks, hang out my daughter, yay it will be fun. And it quickly turned into- imagined Morgan Freeman saying; but in fact, it was not fun and it became sort of eight months of, of, of nonstop, constant. everything, right? I can, I was multiple interviews interrupted, dad, how do I get onto zoom or whatever the case would be. And it's, it's been, it's been a struggle, but you know what? We figured it out. And an entrepreneur and CEO is fun. He's a father who has ADHD. He's faced his own battles, being a working dad during quarantine. So he's even talked to us about sort of how he managed to navigate this time. And more importantly, what you can do to do the same. So welcome to the podcast. Good to have you, man. 

Yeah, thank you. It's really great to be here.

So you sent me a bunch of stuff about, uh, what's things. I mean, I should mention also that, you know, in your, in your other life, when you're not being a dad dealing with all this, you're one of the top direct response copywriters in the world. And the words you put on paper grossed, it was $700 million. Um, by a 50 direct response marketing pieces. How are you from me? Um, you've done God. I mean, numerous response because they're actually actively grossing over 10 million a month for both you and your clients. You got several multimillion dollar companies under your belt. You're a serial entrepreneur like I am, uh, pretty impressive. And you have a call center business, have a copy accelerators, not bad, man. So, but let's get back to what we're talking about. None of that matters, right? When you're dealing with, uh, uh, for me a seven year old kid, who's you know, who can't figure out why. Why her laptops off and like, well, cause remember I told you to plug it in and you didn't, that would be why, you know, all that stuff, everything I've done on TV, nothing really matters. What matters is the kid can turn on a laptop. Right. So you've been in that mode. 

Yeah, I haven't, yeah, my daughter's two and a half. And, um, so it's interesting cause she doesn't fully understand, you know, what's going on with the lockdown and, and it's kind of like a blessing in a way, uh, to be able to spend so much time at home and to see her so often. But, uh, you know, the whole, like daddy's working thing is, um, can only go so far. She, she actually. Yeah, bless her heart is now she's getting closer to three. She'll kind of go, you know, daddy's working and give me a big hug and a kiss. And, um, Kind of walk away, but, but even, you know, today I was trying to do kind of deep focused work writing copy for a client. And she keeps coming to the doors of my office and coming in and then wanting to like, look at pictures and like, you know, I love her more than anything else in this world. So like, I'm, you know, I want her to do that, but, uh, you know, it can be disruptive when you're trying to put your attention into something and then your kids coming in kind of disrupting that and trying to take your attention regularly. So that can definitely be a challenge. 

Well, I mean, from an ADHD perspective, you do you get into the zone. You're in deep work zone. You're you're, you're crushing it. And then something pulls you out of that. Getting back into it's a bitch. 

Yeah, exactly. Um, it's, it's, it's tough. And especially I think happening like once is bad enough, but when it happens sometimes like, you know, three or four times over a half, an hour or 45 minute period, it's it gets very frustrating as, as I'm sure you're, you know, you're very much aware as well. So let's, let's start with that.

I mean, you're looking at, you know, this isn't going away, right? I mean, my kid is in her second day back in, in real school, there she's actually in classroom, but you know who the hell knows how long that's going to last. Right. So I'm predicting two weeks and they're back. So, you know, what do you do? Yeah, for me, some of the things that I've been stretching strategies up into kind of like employing one is I like I'm an early riser and I like to wake up early anyway. And so really embracing that and in the kind of the first couple of hours of the morning, I'll wake up at between five 30 and 6:30 AM. And then right now, at least my daughter. And my wife both don't really wake up until like around 8:00 AM and then they may be up with they're kind of laying around and, and my daughter is again, very lucky. She's a pretty good sleeper and we kind of had our sleep schedule early. So, you know, if I wake up at five 30, uh, I'll have a cup of coffee or in the morning right away. But, uh, kind of actually jumping right into the most important stuff that I have to do for the day. Like focusing on that, uh, like kind of deep work is the term I use. I didn't talk about that term, but, um, the book by the way, Yeah. Yeah. I think I count Newport. Um, but yeah, it is. It's true. So, so cause, cause when I've previously, I would still have that morning time, but it's like, I'd go on Facebook and you would talk about, um, like an add or ADHD, like Wonderland, uh, going on Facebook and these notifications and things are popping up and it's like, the stimulus is great, but I think it kind of overstimulates you, uh, so I've kind of made this thing where I don't go on Facebook until like noon or one, even though a lot of my business, stuff, things I do for business are on Facebook. Uh, but so kind of minimizing that as a distraction. But again, having that, that morning, uh, deep time or deep work time has been really valuable. So that's one kind of really actionable thing that I've personally been doing, uh, is to jump right into kind of the big tasks for the day, like right away when I wake up.

You know, it's funny. Um, the trait of early risers is, is very common to those who are, are like you. And I, I actually start my day on 4:00 AM. Um, and I get you, I get on the bike for an hour and I lift for an hour or whatever. And, you know, the, the difference in who I am, uh, between the times on the days that I do work out versus the days I don't. Palpable. And I don't even have a noticeable, like my daughter now has no daddy, did you get on your bike this morning? You know, they know, I know you're not as happy. You know, it's, it's, it's dopamine thing, you know, that, that whatever we do that morning sets the tone for the day. And if it's about giving us that extra dope, man, you know, it's an entirely different world.

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I do, um, I do like a morning walk almost every morning, which is about like three miles. Uh, and then like I'll lift once or twice a week too. But, um, but yeah, so th and that's for me, the, the sleep schedule is actually so important because like, even right now, I'm, I'm from San Diego. Originally, the Padres are in the playoffs and they won a play off series for the first time since 1998. Uh, and so the games are kind of like the, I think the game ended at like 10 45 last night. So I went to bed at 11 and I woke up. At like 6:45 today, which is, if you think it's not a huge difference and my day has been fine, but it just taking, eating into those couple of hours is actually a huge difference. 

I think one of the things about us is that it also lends itself to a negative, um, uh, chain of events. You know, you do it once. It's a lot easier to do it twice or three times or two weeks or four weeks. Next thing you know, it's a month later. I haven't exercised. You're, you're, you're severely lacking in dopamine or gain 10 pounds, you know, it's not just, it's not a good place to you. Can't let it start. 

Right. Yeah. So I've really embraced. Uh, but you know, like freedom through discipline type thing. I really try to be pretty disciplined and, um, you know, to the sugar of even my wife sometimes, cause it's like, well, why don't you want to stay out longer and do this? And, and, um, I'm the, I'm not trying to be like no fun. And I, I think I do have lots of fun, but yeah. I just know when I stay on a routine and a schedule, I'm just not only am I more effective, but I'm significantly happier. I'm just like, I'm like a better person to your point. Right? When I wake up at five or 5:15, and I do my morning walk and then I go work on whatever big project I have and I have that time to sort of like, uh, feel like I'm really in control of my day. It just makes a huge difference versus sleeping in until 6:45 or 7. And then I know my daughter's getting up in an hour and there's pressing things. It's just a totally different, um, like those couple of hours, like can, can make your day feel twice as long in a good way. Um, it's, it's amazing, right? It's like two hours, but it's like an exponential increase in the amount of time it feels like you have in each day. 

I mean, talk about, uh, let's, let's reach out to this staying active, right? So, you know, my gym has finally reopened. I mean, they basically moved the entire gym outside to a vacant lot and it's it's to be able to get there is great, but I spend my time in, in quarantine and lockdown, you know, on, on FaceTime with my, with my trainer and being able to, um, you know, to, uh, to 22 pound kettlebells. Right. And that's it. Um, what do you suggest when it comes to staying active and staying at it? It's obvious that, you know, you stand up every couple minutes every, every hour or so for a few minutes and it vastly changes how your brain works. Right. But when all of a sudden we're surrounded by, you know, our living room as opposed to an office, whatever. 

Yeah. I mean, we were. I'm lucky that for our house in Las Vegas has like a pool and we're on a golf course. So, um, even in the height of lockdown, I was still doing the walks every single day. Cause you were still allowed to go walk outside. Uh, then we were swimming like pretty much every single day. So I'd work until maybe four or 4:30 and then it was full-time time for an hour, hour and a half. Uh, and then for a while you could go off. So I was trying to get on golf and you couldn't anymore, but we could still go out onto the golf course and then it was closed down. And I don't know if we probably weren't supposed to, but we did. And then there was like, um, like Roadrunners and quail and the different animals. So, you know, going with my daughter and like looking at animals and watching her chase bunnies around, uh, things like that helped a lot. Um, and, and, you know, fortunately the lockdown is not as bad now. I generally find from myself personally, I dunno if you're the same way that, uh, in summer, uh, it’s.. inactivity is less of an issue or a worry but as you start getting to the fall onto the winter, that's where I've had more issues. So for example, when I most recently got kind of redialed, I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was like, I don't know, 10 and, and kind of was like on, off medication and then in my early twenties and that kind of like stopped, you know, forgot about it for a couple of years. And, um, then I, I w I thought, I thought I was having like seasonal affective disorder because in the winter I start getting kind of like depressed and mood swings and things like that. And I went to see like a really good kinda therapist and he kind of asked me, he's like, all right, well, like, you know, during the summer. What does your routine look like? You know, you, you stop working at four 30 or five, like, what are you doing? And I'm like, well, you know, maybe I'll play golf or get with my family and go get dinner or go see friends, or we'll swim or we'll do this. And he's like, all right, cool. And like in the winter, when it's four 30 or five, what do you do? And I'm like, well, it's already dark. So I just go home and I sit on the couch and I want to have like a drink and I start getting kind of depressed and he's like, okay. So like your activity level is basically cut in half. During, like the winter months when the days are shorter. Um, and I was like, yeah. And he's like, and by the way, have you been like, diagnosed with ADHD before? And like, Oh yeah, several times. He's like, yeah, basically you're not being at all active in the winter. And then like, you know, that that's stressing you out and, um, it manifesting in these ways. And so, uh, just as a coping mechanism, For, um, for myself and staying active during the winter months, uh, trying to go out more. I mean, I know like, as an entrepreneur, we're able to go out and eat dinner out a lot. Um, you know, it's not always, I mean, we try to eat pretty healthy, but, but even like, like I know it can be kind of costly, but for us it's something where it's like, it's being able to leave the house and go out and do that activity or whatever um, really helps, but if you can't do that, you can do like a night walk or depending on the climate, but I'm pre-lockdown go see a movie, whatever it is, but really trying to be extra out. I have to kind of force myself to be extra active, uh, during the kind of the late fall and into the winter, but it makes a huge difference. And as soon as I started doing that, like the kind of mood swings and seasonal depression stuff went from like, get like an eight or a nine on the scale to like a two or three, it was a huge, huge difference. 

Yeah, no question about it. Um, what do you suggest? I mean, even like basic stuff, you know, for not, everyone's lucky enough to live in Vegas now pool. Um, I had to pull.. and I was all like, I've got a pool and of course they shut it down. And has it been, uh, what else can we do? How else, how else do we get through? 

I mean, even stuff like getting up, you know, getting up every, every, every hour is walking around your apartment. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a huge one. I mean, I think physical movement, uh, it changing your environment even in like an apartment, right. If you can. Work in your bedroom, some of the time and work in the kitchen, some of the time and work in like your, you know, family room area, like stuff, area. I think even just changing your, your, even within the same, like an apartment, like changing the place where you are, things like that, I think can make a big difference cause, um, at least for me, uh, the same environment over time can kind of make me grow bored. So, um, so even just little things like that, like changing up your environment, um, and where you're working from, or that can be really valuable too. 

How do you, uh, how are you working in this environment and how are you preventing distraction?

Um, yeah, it's a great question. And it's funny because that this house in Vegas, which I love my office has like, um, like a glass door. So it's completely see-through and it's right by the front door of the house. So like whenever somebody comes in, um, you know, like I see it. And then for my daughter, she comes up. It's not like she comes in and even knocks on the door, it’s like, she literally just sees me as she walks by, um, So, you know, the, but the biggest thing for me is one of the communication, like with my wife, I mean, she kind of, she knows like when I'm working and when I'm doing deep work to kind of not, uh, I don't wanna say bother me cause it's never bothersome cause she's my wife and I love her, but, um, to kind of leave me be in that I'll take breaks and I'll come out and I'll find her. And then. If we need to catch up on anything, we can do it at that point. Um, you know, the other thing would be like with my daughter, just like having her doing different activities, having her, so she's not sitting around bored and trying to just go to the office all the time and ask what, you know, what's dad doing, um, and then I use like noise canceling headphones. You know, I, I use, um, those Bose noise-cancelling headphones I've been doing that for years, uh, before I kind of realized that it was ADHD related. Cause I, I would, I always thought I was crazy, but I'd be like, you know, man, if I could just work in like a vacuum chamber, with no sound. I'm like, that would be my perfect environment. Like some people like to listen to music and they do and stuff like that. I want just as quiet as possible. Um, so I don't have extra like stimulus kind of like assaulting me. Um, so going something like that wearing noise canceling headphones can be good. And then one of the things I've been really working on and, and using is a technique called Pomodoros, which I'm not sure if you're familiar with that or not 50 on 10 off or yeah. [The Pomodoro Technique] Yeah. I do like 25 on five off and, um, and then just while I'm doing that, like really minimizing things. Like, I don't keep email up. I don't have any like, like I never do desktop notifications, like out of like, we use Slack for some of my businesses and they're constantly trying to get you to enable desktop notifications. 

Noope. Never, never, never. 

It's like, that is just my nightmare. Um, so you know, the Pomodoros are nice. So if the 25 minutes on five minutes off, cause it's like, normally. I can get 25 minutes, right. Normally. And so it's a, more of like a micro-commitment than being like, I need to spend the next two or three hours, uh, without any distractions. Um, speaking of that, my daughter is now actually up here calling for me, but, um, yeah, 

Well it's okay. It's been about almost 20 minutes, so we'll wrap it up anyway, wants to make sure you get back to your daughter, but, um, tell us about how, how can people find you?

Yeah, I think if you want to go to my, um, my website, which is, uh, www.StefanPaulGeorgi.com. Uh, if you want to get my email list it's you can just go StefanPaulGeorgi.com/subscribe I do like a daily email, um, as part of my routine that, um, is like me talking about entrepreneurship, um, copywriting, freelancing. And then even a lot of personal stuff too with my family, or I've talked about my ADHD and it was just cool because it turns out a lot of entrepreneurs have it. 

Right. Totally, I write about that stuff all the time. 

Yeah, exactly. And so people have found that it's been rewarding for me to share that. And then more people. Uh, you know, kind of reach out with their own stories as well. So yeah, if you'll get my email list, it's not, I don't sell you that much stuff often. It's more of just kind of like me building relationships with people. Um, but I’m happy to share that stuff. 

So we'd love for anyone who wants to join it. It's like it's like sharing a brain with someone's hysterical. You say the exact same things. I said, it's very funny. Awesome guys. Thank you so much for taking the time to join un on Faster Than Normal. I truly appreciate it. I know, I know how busy your schedule is. I give the floor to your daughter, you have to go hang up, hang up with me on and deal with, but thank you so much. 

Yeah, man. It's my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. 

Awesome guys. You listened as always best to normal. Like what you hear?? Drop a review. Leave us a note. Shoot me a note. Uh, you got any good people you thinking should be on? Leave me a note as well. We've got a huge list of people who we're we're slowly filtering through, but we're always looking for more! :-) We'll see you next week. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Neuro-diversity is a gift, not a curse. Stay happy, stay safe. Wear the mask! Talk to you guys soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

As an artist (Island Def Jam) and a songwriter (Sony/ATV) herself, Andrews is sensitive to the challenges that both up and coming and seasoned singers and writers face in music today, and she carries that knowledge with her in her work as a consultant for industry veteran Barry Weiss’ RECORDS label, as well as in her joint venture with Weiss, publishing company Twentyseven Music at Sony/ATV. The Calgary native has collaborated with some of the most renowned names in the market today, including heavy hitters such as Drake, Jennifer Lopez, Little Mix, Tori Kelly, Jessie J and Benee, as well as producers Noah 40 Shebib, Diplo, DJ Mustard, Max Martin, Illangelo and Stargate. Most recently, she has taken pop singer-songwriter Noah Cyrus under her wing, A&Ring her single “July” and writing the remix featuring Leon Bridges, which has garnered more than 160 million streams to date. She is also celebrating the stellar success of the hit she co-wrote with New Zealand-born singer/songwriter Benee, “Supalonely,” which has produced over 10 million TikTok videos and has massed over 125 million streams on Spotify alone. Today we’re talking about her passion and work towards the premise of mental health for Creative Professionals. Enjoy! 

[Read more about our guest today HERE]

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & The Jenna Andrews discuss:

1:10-  Intro and welcome Jenna!  Ref: Aliza Licht’s podcast Leave Your Mark

3:30-  So what prompted you to make mental health a passion? Ref: Emily Ratajkowski article in Harpers Bazzar  

6:28:  Talk about what resources there are or more importantly, what resources there should be for artists/songwriters for anyone trying to pursue a career in The Music Industry. Ref: Jenna’s new podcast The Green Room. Ref:  The Jed Foundation 

9:20-  Ref #SameHere started by my Eric Kussin (Hear Peter’s interview with Eric here

10:00-  On working to removing stigma, stereotypes, being honest, open and just not judging!

12:48-  What are you doing personally to take care of yourself? What are your sort of life rules that you put into place?

14:10-  Tell me how you reacted when you found out that your song “Tumblin Down” was going to be featured on Grey’s Anatomy?  Ref:  Imposter Syndrome

15:50-  And you were first discovered on MySpace??

17:30-  A couple of lightning round questions. Where's your happy place? Where do you go when you just want to be happy? What place is the happiest, the most creative, most confident?

20:00-  Since you've kinda got the RomCom thing going on then answer this: Awesome or Creepy: “Love Actually”

21:30-  What is your most unhealthy favorite food?

22:40-  Ok, last question; what’s your favorite type of work out, if you work out?

23:23-  How can people find you? Where can people find you? Via her website: www.TheJennaAndrews.com and @TheJennaAndrews on Twitter  INSTA  Facebook  YouTube and  on Spotify Her podcast is The Green Room

23:40-  Thank you Jenna! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

24:10-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

We have a new sister video cast called 20MinutesInLockdown! A video podcast devoted to learning fascinating lessons from interesting humans all around the world, all in 20 minutes or less!  20 Minutes in Lockdown was born in early April of 2020, when we were in fact, in lockdown, and couldn’t do much of anything. Realizing that more than ever, people could benefit from learning from people outside of their comfort zone – people with interesting stories to tell, people with good advice, people with useful ideas that could help improve lives, we started hosting short Facebook video interviews, and we grew from there. (Plus, you can actually see my hair colors change before your very eyes!) Check it out:  www.20MinutesInLockdown.com

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter, Shankman welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. Thrilled that you're here. It is a gray, disgusting day here in New York city, but we are hopeful. Um, even though we are looking at a 3% rise in coronavirus, because most of you mother won't wear a mask and it's pissing me off, but whatever, it's still great to have you all here. I am glad you are here. I'm glad you're I hope you're all healthy and safe and that wearing your mask. Okay. We're talking to someone today. I I've talked to her now for about three minutes before I started. And I'm already in love. This person is awesome. I love everything about this person. Let me tell you she's so Jenna Andrews. Okay. If you are in the music industry, chances are, you've heard of this one. As artists with Island Def jam and a songwriter with Sony ATV. She sent him to the challenges of both up and coming as well as seasoned singers and writers and what they face in music today. She carries that knowledge with her as a consultant for industry veteran, Barry Weiss, his record label, as well as her joint venture with Weiss, a publishing company called 27 music and Sony ATV. Okay. She's worked with Drake, Jennifer Lopez, little mix, Tori Kelly, Jessie, J Benny producers, Noah 40, Diplo, DJ mustard. Max Martin. I am not cool enough doing half these people are, but I, I know that she's worked with Noah Cyrus, um, uh, eight and her single July and writing the remix featuring Leon bridges, which has garnered over 200 million streams to date. I always hesitate to put streams or numbers in my bio because I have to update them like every week, 210 million, 20 million. Anyway, I was actually going to say that I'm sure it's in there. Tell your publicist, update the stream. Okay. Anyway, she is very, very passionate about, about mental health and mental health for creative professionals, songwriters musicians. And that's why she's here today. I heard her on my wonderfully good friend Aliza Licht’s podcast and Leave Your Mark, which if you haven't subscribed to that one, I strongly recommend that Lisa is the shit and I am thrilled that Jenna has taken the time to be here to gentle. Welcome. Thank you so much for being on Faster Than Normal.

Oh, of course. Oh my God. By the way, your intro is pretty spectacular. I was like, wow, this is awesome. You're really good at you're really good at that. I'm like, I'm like, yes, I am. I'm here for it. When people introduced me I'm always looking around like, who the hell are they talking about? It's really, but that's cool. Literally. 

I love it. So how tell us about, so I want to focus most of the mental health, cause you know, we only facet normal is only 20 minutes, 30 minute interviews cause you know, 80 days. But um, I want to focus on the premise of mental health, you know, Whether you're an entrepreneur or you're a musician or any kind of creative or whatever you're doing in life. We tend to push mental health to the side. We still tend to push it to the back burner. We don't think about it as something, you know, we'll go to the gym right, five times a week and we'll do this dumb ass juice, detox, cleanses, whatever. But the one thing that we don't focus on anywhere near as much as we should, as society is taking care of our brain. And so what prompted you to make mental health a passion? 

Um, it was funny because when, when you were, we were actually talking three minutes before, um, we started and you mentioned, um, your story and, and obviously how having ADHD, you know, back, you know, I guess what was it like 15, 20 years ago? It was totally something that wasn't, um, kind of okay to admit. So I actually have a similar experience because I, I feel like throughout high school people always were telling me, Oh yeah, she has a learning disability, dah, dah, dah, like all this kind of stuff. And I was so embarrassed about it. And, um, you know, at the time I didn't want to see anybody and it's it's um, yeah, it was like, it was shameful, which is so, which is so weird. I mean, that's one of the reasons, another reason is, you know, I was pretty badly bullied in high school as well. And, um, I went through an eating disorder and you know, I think a lot of young girls can relate and unfortunately way too many girls go through it. So it really made me feel one, you know, being a musician, it's been a way that I've been able to purge my emotions and feel better in a cathartic way, so I feel like in combination with that, and also just, you know, being able to be open through song. I was like, well, we do this every day in a song writing room. Like, why can't we open this up to the world for whoever's comfortable to talk about it, especially for the fans out there, you know, listening to these musicians or idolizing people that probably are going through similar things that they are, you know. 

It makes a lot of sense what you say. You know, the interesting thing though, is that again, it's not necessarily something that tends to be focused on. Um, long-term, you know, I remember, uh, a lot of my friends I was telling you before, and then I went to LaGuardia, high school, Performing Arts, and a lot of the kids who I went to school with a good handful of them, you know, they started out their musical careers and they were working on it and they were, you know, sort of, um, pushing forward and pushing forward. And it was a constant grind that constant struggle and a constant, you know, series of rejections and being told no, and being told to lose weight or gain weight, or dye your hair or change this, or change that and get a boob job, whatever it was. And this was in the nineties. I, I, by the way, I I'm, I'm madly in love with you about the fact that you said it must be 15 to 20 years ago, that was in high school. It's closer to 30, 35 years ago, but bless your heart. Anyway, I appreciate that. Um, but you know, the, the, the, the concept of all of these rejections and all of these sort of, you're not good enough, or you'll be better if you do this. Right. takes its toll. There was an article written by, um, uh, Emily Ratajkowski, the, the, the model. Um, I don't know if you read it. It was in, I think it was in New Yorker. It was in Harpers. I don't remember where it was published last month or so where she talked about what she went through as a woman and as a model and how she was basically just treated like a product and, and, and she could never, she was never get everything she did, you know, was fixed this change that do this and. Talk about, um, in the music industry, talk about, you know, sort of what resources there are or more importantly, what resources there should be. Um, for artists forcing us we're songwriters for, for anyone trying to pursue that career. Who's constantly told no. I mean, we're told to just, you know, I'll just keep pushing forward. Same thing and sales, I guess, in the business, keep trying and keep going, keep going, but they never talk about sort of what people can do to, to fix themselves and to get the help they need. 

Yeah. I'm actually in the process of trying to figure that out actually in, in doing this whole thing. I mean, really it's so it's so interesting because you know, starting.. I’ve started, uh, my own podcast called The Green Room about mental health. And obviously, you know, that, um, I, you know, in doing that, I think it was, it started as like, you know, an idea of being able to, you know, just be able to purge as I said, but then it really built into something that's, that's become just what you just asked is like, you know, being able to support people in the industry and outside as well. But like, I guess I'm working on that now. In fact, I spoke to, um, I spoke to somebody yesterday about potentially coming up with, you know, essentially making things like making some sort of program up or, you know, he writes policies. He was talking about ways that we can sort of come together and find ways that we can actually provide um, ways that people can or places people can go. Cause right now, you know, honestly, just speaking from the music community, it's like obviously writing songs is something that's therapeutic, right? That is, that is why people do that song is the feel better, right. In terms of actually solving some problems, like one thing I spoke to about my, to my friend or this, you know, this therapist yesterday is he basically was saying that he's trying to find a policy to like make, you know, have it be that people don't necessarily have to go to prison when they're, you know, abusing alcohol or drugs, because, you know, there has, there's such a deep rooted problem, like reason for that, for that. So it should be something should be there to help them rather than like, sort of punish them for it because it's really based on mental health. And a lot of times in music and entertainment, people really get. Um, get like a bad rap because a lot of times it will be like, Oh yeah, musicians are druggies or alcoholics or whatever, but it's really just because it's like, we're depressed in the same way everybody else is, it’s just that you're putting it out for the world to see. Right. So. Like going back again to your original question. That's I don't, I don't know that I have like the solution right at this very moment, but I guess what I'm hoping to do through The Green Room is to be able to, you know, talk about it. And obviously I partnered with The Jed Foundation, which is, um, a nonprofit for mental health. So we're giving all of that money back to the mental health, all the donations go back to mental health, which is the first step. Um, And yeah, and I guess there's just, you know, obviously, you know, providing hotlines and things for people to call, but I do think that there has to be a bigger. Being in that. So I feel like this is something it's a work in progress. 

There's a, a nonprofit called #SameHere started by my friend Eric Kussin and the whole premise there is, is just to sort of, to legitimize the conversation around mental health. I think that if we, you know, if the conversation around mental health to legitimize, it would, it would solve, you know, we're not gonna solve all the problems, but that's a great start, right. Getting people to open up and talk about it and know that, you know, One of the reasons that I, I, I look at my ADHD and I know that it's a benefit. And, and the reason I do this podcast is so other people can learn that and not be stigmatized for it. 

You know what, that's actually a really, exactly what you just said is a hundred percent what I am hoping to do through what I'm trying to promote in doing The Green Room and also just making mental health, such a, um, I guess an okay thing to talk about it with, within the music community, because I think. By coming out and saying, Hey, listen, I had an eating disorder and, and saying, Hey, listen, I was bullied in high school. Hey, I drink too much. Or just stuff like that where it's like, Hey, listen, not everybody can admit that. Right. But I feel like when you can, it helps you get through it because you're like, okay, you you're going through it, so you're not alone. And I think that's really. That's like the mantra is like, people don't want to feel alone. 

One of the things that I've noticed in my, in my spare time was I'm a licensed skydiver. I jumped out of airplanes for fun and yeah. Okay. Uh, we call it, FEMURing in, bring in, when someone lands has a hard landing, 90% of time, they land on their femur and they break their femur. Right. Which is essentially breaking their leg. It hurts like hell and, um, you know, they get titanium putting in, they get like rods in my leg or whatever, I think. There's actually, they're actually t-shirts that people sell that says, you know, I'm 90% metal or titanium or whatever we immortalize and embrace the concept. Oh yeah. I broke my leg. Look at how strong I am, you know, but we don't do that for mental health, you know? And, and I think that's really, what has to change is the premise that I'm not saying we need to go around and say, yes, I'm an alcoholic, but, but not to be. Um, not to be judged. That's not to look at it as a sign of weakness. Right. We break our leg. We don't look at someone with a broken leg. Hi, you fucked up. Look at you. Ha you broke it. You know, why do we still have that same stigma around mental health? And I think that is what a lot of you know, is sort of starting to sort of gain traction and become a movement where it's not stigmatized. 

A hundred percent. And by the way, you're so right about that. It's like people are allowed to make mistakes and it's not to say that you should say alcoholism is the way to live. It's not, it's not promoting that. And that's only one example of many different types of things. But I guess that I found that interesting in, in, in my conversation yesterday, because I was like, okay, yeah. I mean, that is a serious stigma, but you have to realize what, what, what, it's, what extend that, you know what I mean? Like why does that person have the addiction that they have. And, and, and I think that, um, the important thing is exactly what you said as well is just not judging somebody. And I think, um, you know, for example, I'll give you another example. A couple of weeks ago, I did a show, um, I talk with Teagan and Sarah and we talk about obviously, you know, you know, the gay community and coming out and what that looks like? And there's so much judgment in that too. Like even a lot of what they talked about is, you know, the stigma of like, Hey, if you know, even in the gay and lesbian community, it's like, if you don't look like you're gay and even the let's be in community, judge, you. You know what I mean? It's like, how crazy is that? I mean, I'm just thinking there's, it's such a, a broad, um, subject, I think for judgment all across the board on a lot of different levels. 

What are you doing personally to take care of yourself? What are your sort of life rules that you put into place?

 Um, exactly this, I really find the most healing thing for me is the talk about it and I think, um, therapy of course. Um, but I find that it's beyond just going to a normal therapy session. I find that just talking about it with friends or, you know, Instead of repressing feelings, just putting it out there. I find that as much as open as I am, the better I feel. Do you know what I mean? Cause if I'm going through something, I feel that if I, what I learned over my life is that when I. When I sort of like pretended it didn't exist or like, you know, just kind of like put it, put it away for now. I was always way more depressed. And I think that talking about it is just so healing for me. So I'm constantly trying to talk and challenge myself to get better, I guess. Um, yeah. 

Okay. Let's uh, let's move, move to a fun topic um, as well, we'll come back. We'll circle, we'll circle back to this at the end, but I, I gotta ask you a couple of questions and, you know, forgive me for this. Um, tell me how I'm hoping for a great story here. Tell me what happened or how you found out and how you reacted when you discovered, when you found out- when, I guess when your agent, whoever called you and said, Hey, “Tumblin Down” is going to be on Gray’s Anatomy?

Oh, well, it's so funny. I, I, that was, um, like that was so many years ago now. Yeah, actually it might've been like 2000. Yeah. Something like that. 2011. Um, you know, I mean, obviously I thought it was really exciting. Um, but it's, it's. You know, as an artist, this is another thing to say is like your, your, so you have this like, That nothing's ever good enough. 

Oh my God. Imposter syndrome. There we go. I was at imposter syndrome shows up in every single episode, every single guest talks about it. So congratulations for continuing for continuing the streak. We're good. We're I think we're 202 for 202. 

Haha! Awesome! I’m glad. Okay. This is good. I mean, we're, we're, we're artists out here, you know? Um, but it's a good sign. It means that you really, you know, I think the best artists and no ones that, you know, have the most pain and have. You know, I have something to say in a story to share, to share with people, um, all feel these ways, because I think that it's impossible to be satisfied and make good art, you know, think about it. It's like if you, if you fall into a place that's complacent, you feel like you've arrived, then there's like, like you don't want to, how could you still want to create? You know, so I guess that. That's how it feels. It's just like, okay, cool. That's good. What's the next thing. And it's not even like, not being grateful.

Right? Of course it's grateful, but it's just like, it's just the nature of the beast. 

Yeah. Now, if, if I'm, if I remember correctly, you were discovered, and this is, this is gonna, you know, as someone who grew up in the eighties with the era and the era of dial up modems in America, online, this continues to blow my mind, you were discovered on MySpace weren't you. 

Yes. And I it's so funny now because my face is, so it's such a dinosaur now, too. So it's like, it's so odd to think about because really my space was the first social network, I guess that really started this whole trend. Right. So, but no, I was exactly that. So I just kind of, I put up a song, um, For my parents basically than I, so I had moved out of my house, um, right from high school and, um, I, you know, didn't have any money and I really just wanted, had a lot of pride that I wanted to show that I could do it on my own and all these things. So I really wanted that. I like didn't have that to get back to where I was living, which was like, you know, an hour outside of the city. So I slept in my car by the beach and I wrote this song for my parents, um, being, obviously couldn't buy them a Christmas gift. And, um, and then I ended up just being like, Hey, cool, it's an acoustic song. Like I really like it. Let's just throw it on MySpace. And that was it. And I've learned now through my career as those things that happened the one, the times that you really just think. Absolutely not the times that you're just like, you know, if you're going in, you know, 350 days of the year being like I'm working today, I'm going to write a hit, I’m going to do this, or I'm going to do that. The other, you know, 10 days are the days that you'll actually accomplish something that you're not thinking about anything. It's like, those are always the times that you actually achieve the best things is when you're doing it for an authentic reason beyond any sort of specific like superficial goal. From my experience.

Couple of questions, uh, sort of, sort of, um, uh, lightning round questions. Where's your happy place? Where do you go when you just want to be happy? What, what place the happiest, the most creative, the most, uh, uh, carefree and confident. 

Well, okay. There's two that you just asked what makes me the happiest and what makes me the most creative are definitely two different things right now. Oh my God. You're gonna, you're gonna, literally, I don't, I'm scared to say this, but as a person that just says I have to be vulnerable and say everything, I feel I have to do it, but I freaking love the stupidest romcoms, like Hallmark movies. They make me. Like this time of the year literally makes me so happy. You guys don't understand. Like, I actually like have an obsession with Hallmark movies. Like I, like, after the day writing, I like look forward to being like, Oh my God, the Hallmark channel. And I'm like so excited. Um, and, but you're asking me during these, this December months, so this is definitely my happy times, right?

Yeah. Okay. And what about most creative? 

Most creative is. Um, like it's, it's either being like inspired looking out the window right now. It's like either being inspired by like, you know, what, something around you like where it's like, I can't even define it necessarily. It's like, it's, I feel like I get the most creative when I'm either like, so inspired by a thought or a melody or just something visual, I guess I'm a really visual person too. So I feel like, um, that really captivates me. So I need to feel like I, if I, if I all of a sudden see something or hear something, like if you said something right now, Like often the best songs are like, you could say it and I'm like, Oh my God, it's the best content I've ever heard. And that's so inspiring to me, you know, I was just like in conversation, having like the song, just write itself, and that's what a song is. 

So to follow up on the first point of your Hallmark movies, I saw a, um, an Instagram ad, I was at a certain Instagram and the other day that showed a person wearing socks. And the socks on the soles of the socks said, “if you can read this don't bother me cause I'm watching Hallmark movies”. So I'll have to get you up to get you a pair. 

OMG, Yeah. I'm actually dying right now. You have to! I will send you a pair. Yes. I'll get your address from your, from your, uh, from your publicist. 

Okay, so here's the same question. Since you've got the romcom thing going on, then answer this’  Awesome or Creepy: “Love Actually”. 

Awesome!

Thank you! Thank you! There's a, there's a growing movement that says it's creepy and like stalkery and all that I'm like, come on. It's Love Actually. 

Oh my gosh. How many times have you watched that movie? Hundreds. Hundreds. Okay. Actually I'm like, I'm like, shit. I bought that movie is iconic. It's wonderful.

What's creepy is the little boy chasing the girl. I mean, that's like, no, that's awesome. I think the creepy part is the guy stocking the, his best friend's wife. No, it's not, the science is like that, that scene where it's like, Oh, I get goosebumps thinking about it. 

I, I remember I, my, my ex wife, I'm still very good friends with, we were watching the movie and I was listening to the song. Um, Anywhere You Go, right? [[“Wherever You Will Go” by The Calling]] Anyway, you follow you. And, um, uh, No, no. Wherever you may go wherever you, um, the one that's playing in the bar when he goes to America and he meets the girls. Right. And I'm listening to it. I love it. So it's a great running song. And she says to me, my, my ex says to me, one day, she goes: ‘You just like that song because he ends up having a threesome’

That is such a, like, I, I, yeah, I could see that. I could see her saying that, but that's not why come on! That song. 

That's not entirely why. Okay. Couple more, couple more questions. Um, favorite, uh, or worst, I should say, um, most unhealthy favorite food. 

Ooh, what was that healthy, favorite food? I rarely eat healthy. Like, I don't even know if I, um, Oh, I don't even like that, like bad food. Like that's the truth. I mean, I'm actually being serious. Like, I mean, my cheat is like tomato, basil rice cakes, which I'm like obsessed with. And I know I sound insane. I know, but like, I'm not like a pizza, French fry, like person. I don't even know that that would be like my choice.

I’m really glad that I live in the other end of the country because just knowing that we'd never ever date- oh my God. I don't like pizza? What the hell is wrong with you?! Rice cakes are, are literally an affront to God. Okay. Whatever, they're an affront to God. 

Can I just say I do like pizza, but interesting, but I, but I just feel like. It's not like my go-to. Okay, fine. I put, I'll put cheese on a tomato basil rice cake and you're when we, when we, when we hang out, you're going to have it and it's going to change your life because it's so good. 

Only if I can I take you- I'll take you to Claudio's pizzeria on 10th and 43rd street. Oh, okay. Deal? Deal.

Last question. Tell us, do you tell us about what you work out? Do you work out? What's your favorite one? 

Pilates. I love Pilates. That's an easy one. Yeah. It's just like, it's so. Um, I feel like one it's like so refreshing to do right in the morning. Cause it's like, it's like, obviously you get all like stretching and you can like get all your muscles working. But it's also like a lot of like core strength, especially when you do it without, um, the reformer, like, cause we've been doing Pilates like this whole. You're just with, um, an instructor on zoom, which has been awesome. And it's like, you know, like I don't have a reformer, so it's just a lot of core strength, like weights and it's just like, you're kind of like working everything and it just, I love it. I just think it checks all the boxes for me. 

Where can people find you? Via her website: www.TheJennaAndrews.com and @TheJennaAndrews on Twitter  INSTA  Facebook  YouTube and  on Spotify Her podcast is The Green Room

Jenna Andrews. It's everywhere. You know, all my socials are the same, so that's when they can find me. And I'm behind the screen on behind the green wall.

Well, I was gonna say behind the, is the rest of your life, right? Don't take it down. And that's where the that's where the wizard hangs out. Jenna Andrews, thank you so much for being on Faster Than Normal. I truly appreciate your time. This was, this was phenomenal. I hope to have you back. 

Of course, thank you so much for having me! 

Guys, thanks for listening as always, if you like what you hear drops review, uh, stay safe, stay healthy. It is crazy out there and it looks like it's only gonna get worse. So until it gets better, I'm reminding you to wear the mask. Please wear the mask and we, if you don't do it for yourself, if you don't care for yourself, do it for someone you love and you should love yourself anyway, because we're the only ones we got. We'll talk to you guys next week on another episode of Faster Than Normal. Thank you so much for listening. Take care of yourselves.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Dennis Berry is a Certified Life Coach and has been working with people worldwide for over 15 years. With modern technology, he can work with anybody anywhere via Zoom. His expertise is in Addiction Recovery, Alcoholism, and Life Mastery. He has firsthand experience, having been sober since April 8, 2003. With his journey in sobriety and recovery from drug abuse, it helped him find his mission in life, which is to help others on their journey through sobriety and achieve inner peace and success in every area of their lives. Dennis knows what it is like to be helpless and hopeless with no positive direction. He was able to climb out of the gutter and transform his life and he spends his life helping others do the same. If you are sick and tired of being sick and tired and you are ready to make changes in your life, book your first FREE consultation today. You will see some light at the end of the tunnel.  Today we’re talking about how Dennis began his path to sobriety, which led him to coaching and how helping other’s remains his life’s calling. Enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Dennis Berry discuss:

1:10-  Intro and welcome Dennis!

1:40-  A first-timer’s trip to AA; highs and lows

2:40-  What started you on your path to sobriety; what was the beginning?

4:50-  What led you to giving back, then to become a coach?  Ref: Peter’s interview will soon air on Dennis Berry’s “The Funky Brain” podcast 

6:30-  Things will get better. Everything is always changing.

8:30-  What is the top thing people do to self-sabotage, and what can they do to break the cycle? No pressure ;)

10:00-  Rituals versus Resolutions + the healthy, subconscious mind

10:14-  How can people find you?  

Via his website at www.DennisBerry.com and on the socials:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisberry1/ 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/LifeCoach.DennisBerry

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/dennisberry_ 

YouTube: http://youtube.com/DennisBerryfunkyBrain

10:39-  Thank you Dennis! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

12:04-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

We have a new sister video cast called 20MinutesInLockdown! A video podcast devoted to learning fascinating lessons from interesting humans all around the world, all in 20 minutes or less!  20 Minutes in Lockdown was born in early April of 2020, when we were in fact, in lockdown, and couldn’t do much of anything. Realizing that more than ever, people could benefit from learning from people outside of their comfort zone – people with interesting stories to tell, people with good advice, people with useful ideas that could help improve lives, we started hosting short Facebook video interviews, and we grew from there. (Plus, you can actually see my hair colors change before your very eyes!) Check it out:  www.20MinutesInLockdown.com

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter, Shankman welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. It is great to have you as always. I got to change up what I say. I say the same thing every time I start a podcast again. Anyway, let's talk addiction today. Let's talk addiction. Let's talk some real hard grit, some real hard facts. You know, ADHD is a hair's breath from addiction. All neurodiversity really isn't. It's just these little tiny. Can't even see them. They're so small changes in the brain that take us down many, many paths, and we're going to talk to someone who's not only been down that path, but has come back and it helps other people get past that and back from that path. Dennis Berry certified life coach, he's worked with people over 15 years. He works in addiction, recovery, alcoholism, and life mastery. He's been sober since April 8th, 2003, which is freaking amazing. His journey for sobriety and recovery from drug abuse, helping find his mission in life, which is to help others journey through sobriety and achieve inner peace and success in every area of their lives. Dennis. Welcome. 

Thank you, Peter. It's so nice to talk with you again, as lot of talking with you, you're a wealth of knowledge and I liked the pace at which you move. 

Thank you. Yeah. You know, so one of the things I noticed when I decided to sort of get a handle on my ADHD and why I was drinking so much and things like that. I went to a AA a few times, right. In the very beginning. And, um, you know, we're all introducing ourselves just saying, hi, my name is whatever. And I remember a guy next to me, told a story and it was very brief, but it ended with, and I quote, um, fifth time getting arrested for sucking dick in Tompkins Square Park for crack. And then it was my turn to tell my story and it went something like I kind of had a hangover the other day, you know, and I didn't feel like I belonged and it wasn't that way for a while. And then someone one day introduced me to the concept of high bottoms versus low bottoms. Right. Which is the premise that you don't have to be in Tompkins Square Park doing exactly that, to decide that you've had enough. So why did you, when did you decide you had enough? Obviously, I believe 2003; what started it for you? What was the end result? 

Well, you know, my mind was leading up, mine was a bunch of horror stories. I did not end up sucking deck in the park. I did, uh, I do have some horror stories. Mine were like car accidents and being stupid and saying stupid things and getting in trouble. But that wasn't one of them. However, you know, it's interesting point that you bring up high bottom, low bottom. I was in a meeting. I used to go to a lot of AA myself early on, not as much anymore, but there was a woman there who was the speaker and she was there because, and I can tell you all my horror stories that went on for 15 years and they were crazy and bad and wild and like insane. Like you see in a movie, hers was, she was sober like 15 years because she drank two shooters of vodka every day. And to me, that was silly because I was like, that's like breakfast. That didn't make sense to me, but to her, it was a problem. So she had to make changes. I don't remember the circumstance. Maybe she likes me back their kid, after she had tutors or something that hurt her, it made her think I have a problem and I need to make changes for me. Mine went a lot deeper. I was bankrupt financially, spiritually my body, my mind, my relationships all broken. So I finally became willing to listen to somebody else and change the way that I was living. And, uh it's and it's been a long road. You know, one of the things I, that I talk about all the time and that I instill in my clients is like, you know, the drinking, the drugs, the food, the porn, the shopping, whatever your problem is, it’s not always the problem. It's what I'm using to cope with the real problem, which is my thinking. And so when I can work on that and, you know, clear up the past, see where all these. These issues originated from and work on those, then I can become more focused and, uh, you know, turn my life around for good. And, you know, it's when you get to that moment that you realized what it was all for, and while you're doing it.

Tell me about what prompted you from going from where you were to not only recovery, but then becoming a coach too, to teach other people, why the give back? 

Well, and that's, I love that question. I, I was helping people anyway. And I love it. It feeds my soul. And I think a lot of people, like, I know you're passionate about everything you do. Um, you were on my show and we talked about that and there's a lot of people and by a lot, I mean, most people, whatever the percentages are, do not do things that feed their soul. And they're the ones that they lay in bed in the morning with the sheets over their head, scared to get out of bed because they don't want to go do that job or whatever it is that they're doing, pay the bills, you know, pay for the kids or whatever it is. And I was helping people anyway. And I w I get fulfilled that way. Now along the way, in the last 17 years I've started businesses. Most of them failed, but some of them worked out really quite well. And I was able to change my health and I, and I've been able to live a life that most people dream about. And a lot of it was because I was pursuing my goal, my, my dreams. And, uh, every morning when I get up, I have clients that look to me for help, which at first I was like, they must be really screwed up if they're asking me for help, you know? But, um, at the end of the day, I'm just truly blessed, lucky, fortunate, whatever you want to call it to realize years ago that my path was to help other people that are struggling from anything to not have to struggle at the depth that I did, you know? 

I heard a great quote. Once it said that that people were broken or people have been down that road and struggled before, want to help people because they know what it's like to have been that hurt. And they never want to see anyone go through that again. 

Yeah, that's right. I know how painful it was. And I think that that's one of the reasons that I go and love talking to kids in schools and universities and things like that and you know, it's that.. ‘yeah, I've been there and it sucks ass, but it's, it's going to get better. 

It is. 

Yeah. And you know, when you're in that hopeless state of mind, when you're sitting isolating and your house or apartment or wherever you're living, and you think that the world, like the current state that you're in, it's always going to be that way. And it's not. 

And the tough times, never last, neither do the good times. Everything changes all the time. And it's, if you can figure that out on your own, that's great. But a lot of people, you know, need help, they need somebody to say it, you know what…I love that there was a cartoon where it shows a guy on standing on top of this big hole and there's a guy down in the hole and he's raising his hand out. And this guy on the bottom of the hole, he says, I don't know how I got in this hole. I'm going to be stuck here forever. I can't get out of this hole. And the guy up top, he's like here, give me your hand. I was in that hole last week. I'm going to help you get out. 

I heard it on the West Wing. It's a, the guys in the hall and, and the, and a priest walks by and he says, father, can you help me? And he throws down a couple of prayers. And then, uh, you know, a businessman walked by and said, can you help me get out of this hole? And he throws down some money. And then his best friend walks by. He says, Mike, can you, can you help me? And Mike jumps down in, he says, ‘nNow you idiot, we're both stuck in this hole!” Yeah, but I’ve been here before. I know the way out.’  I love that. It's so true. You know what I've found so many times that I can find inspiration from people who I watch a TV or movies, whatever, and the sure enough, lo and behold, I do my research and yeah. And they're in recovery. It's it's hysterical.

So let's talk, um, give me some, some, some, some help here that I could pass along. Um, top three things that. People do to self-sabotage and, or just give me a top, top one thing that people do to self sabotage and how they can break the cycle. Wow. That's like being on the, you know, not, not that I'm putting you on the spot or anything. 

No shit. Yeah. Well, One of the things that I tend to notice a lot is being unfocused or not feeling like they're worthy, that not feeling that they're worthy is one big thing. Um, but the unfocused thing I would say is trying to do too many things at once. And I say, uh, you know, I just did a webinar on this about a half an hour ago actually. But, um, you know, we all try to focus on too many, doing so many things and we really need to focus on just doing one thing. It's called the one thing. And when I'm focusing on the one thing, which for you, I think. I don't know how it works. I think you might be one of those people that I could focus on 20 different things. 

Yeah. That's not easy. 

Right. But I think it's so important. Some people are like, you know, they'll try to work on five things and then they get overwhelmed and then they quit and they end up drinking or eating or doing something to distract themselves from working on the one thing and getting to achieve their goals and their dreams. That's a, that's like the biggest thing that I noticed with all my clients and we spend a lot of time getting focused on that. 

One thing. I heard a quote once that said, and I've, I've, I've stolen at music, uh, liberally over the past years. Um, Resolutions fail rituals succeed. But if you can get yourself to do something over and over again, for a certain amount of time, it becomes a ritual and rituals tend to have a much higher success rate than, uh, than, uh, resolutions.

So that's how we reprogram our subconscious mind. Our subconscious minds were programmed. Over a period of time by doing the same thing over and over and over whether it was healthy or unhealthy. That's how our stuff conscious mind. There. Some things that are so conscious minds do that are healthy, like brushing our teeth. So we had to learn mechanically and mentally how to do that from a very young age. And we did it over and over and over again. You don't even think about it. We just pick up our toothbrush before we go to sleep. The moment we wake up and we brush our teeth, but we also get programmed to live in fear and we don't even realize that. And it happened by- it could have started at four years old when we got scared of something and we carry that into our lives every single day, over and over and over again for an extended period of time. So to change that we need to go back in and find the root cause of that, and then shatter that behavior over and over and over and over again, day after day for an extended period of time.

Awesome. Uh, great answer. Um, how can people find you? How can they get more info about you? 

Uh, well, everything my book, the podcasts, uh, uh, and schedule appointments and stuff that you can pretty much the best place is to go through the website, which is www.DennisBerry.com. And you can schedule appointments right on the site, or you can reach out and contact me and we'll have a schedule, a free consultation for a little while and talk and see if you don't feel better.

Dennis. Thank you so much for taking the time today. I really, really appreciate it. Um, you know, good stuff and I'm definitely gonna have you back at some point next few months. Thank you, 

Peter. I appreciate it, man. Have a great day. 

Thanks for listening. Definitely guys, as always you’re listening to Faster Than Normal. If you liked what you heard, leave us a review. We'll be back next week with a new guest, keeping it brief this week, but brief is good when you have ADHD or any form of neurodiversity. Stay happy, stay healthy, wear the mask, stay safe. We'll talk to you soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Dr. Tommy Black is a Licensed Professional Counselor who has been in private practice since 1998. Currently he serves as a member of the Georgia Composite Board for Professional Counselors, Social Workers, and Marriage & Family Therapists. He also serves as the Chair of the Rules Committee and on the Advisory Panel for the National Board of Forensic Evaluators. Dr. Black has extensive experience and training in Cognitive-Behavior Therapy, REBT, and DBT. He works with a myriad of life issues but has particular expertise in ADHD, Grief/Loss, Depression, Anxiety Disorders, PTSD, Impulse Control Issues, Relationship difficulties, and Adjustment Difficulties. A veteran of the Gulf War (1990-1991) while serving in the U.S. Army, Dr. Black has years of personal and professional experience in understanding and helping others cope with the specific trials of military services for active duty individuals and their families.  Today we’re talking about how he uses his ADHD, wisdom and years of experience to help others. Enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Dr. Tommy Black discuss:

1:14-  Intro and welcome Dr. Black!

3:30-  What’s your story. When did you begin pursuing your doctoral studies?

5:55-  On the issue of treating Neurodiverse, versus urgent medical care & resources available.

6:55-  On some of the improvements and areas of neurodiversity that are getting attention finally.

8:05-  On Esteem Therapeutics and the work Dr. Black & Associates are doing

10:45-  Rigidity. Let’s talk about how your service in the military helps individuals with ADHD or those who may be neurodiverse.

14:08-  Do you feel you attained much of the structure you currently use in your daily life from the military? 

16:05-  What do you say to parents who have just learned of their child’s neurodiverse diagnosis?

16:55-  On how he managed through his own childrens’ diagnoses’

19:22-  How can people find you?  Download the app App Store. Or via his website at www.chooseesteem.com and @ chooseesteem on INSTA and Facebook 

20:00-  Thank you Tommy! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

21:07-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

We have a new sister video cast called 20MinutesInLockdown! A video podcast devoted to learning fascinating lessons from interesting humans all around the world, all in 20 minutes or less!  20 Minutes in Lockdown was born in early April of 2020, when we were in fact, in lockdown, and couldn’t do much of anything. Realizing that more than ever, people could benefit from learning from people outside of their comfort zone – people with interesting stories to tell, people with good advice, people with useful ideas that could help improve lives, we started hosting short Facebook video interviews, and we grew from there. (Plus, you can actually see my hair colors change before your very eyes!) Check it out:  www.20MinutesInLockdown.com

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter, Shankman welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. I hope you were having a great day. It is raining here in New York and foggy. Not so much rain but fog, but all as well. Uh, today is early voting in New York city. I voted, uh, it was on line at 6:00 AM. I was out by about 7:55. So that was pretty awesome. And if you don't vote, you're not allowed to listen to this podcast. So those are the rules. I don't care who you vote for, but you got to vote very, very important, democracy must survive. 

Anyway, on the podcast, we've got someone who has helped contributed to democracies survival. We have a veteran of the Gulf war, the original bill for 1991. Back when I was a freshman in college. I remember when we went, when the, when the, uh, CNN broke the news, that, that, that it was starting. And, um, we're talking to dr. Tommy Black, Dr. Tommy Black is a licensed professional counselor. He's been in private practice since 98. He currently serves as a member of the Georgia composite board for principal counselors, social workers, and marriage and family therapists. He also serves as chair of the rules committee on the advisory panel for the national board of forensic evaluators. He's extended his extensive experience and training in cognitive behavior therapy. CBT is I talk about always REBT and DBT, which is dialectical behavioral therapy. He works with a myriad of life issues, but his particular experience in ADHD, grief, loss, depression, anxiety disorders, PTSD, impulse control issues, relationship difficulties, and adjustment difficulties. So essentially everyone who listens to this podcast, as I said, a veteran to go for while serving in the U S army, Dr. Black has used a personal professional experience in understanding and helping others cope with specific trials of military service for active duty individuals and their families. First of all, thank you for your service. Second of all, dr. Black welcome faster than normal. 

Thanks, Peter. I appreciate you having me. Um, and thank you for that. Welcome. It does sound like any issue you have. I can help you with this. 

You're pretty much covered everyone who's ever been on the show. Yeah, no question.

Yeah, those are all I think though, um, very typical of individuals with ADHD. We deal with all of those things, right? Well, I was going to say everything is so interconnected. Yeah. Right. And, and so, so, you know, a hair's breadth apart from each other, and that's really, I think one of the things that people don't realize exactly how interconnected and close all of these things are, whether you're looking at trauma issues or ADHD or PTSD, impulse control, executive function disorder, you know, all of these are literally a hair's breath away from each other.

Yup. Yup. It's very difficult at times to find differential diagnosis for those things, make a determination of what the primary issue is and what's driving the, um, frustrations or concerns. So that's where we have to turn to the professionals or look at data and try to figure that stuff out. So tell me your story. So you, you were in the army when you came back, is that when you, uh, pursued your, your, uh, doctoral studies. 

Yeah. So, um, I was actually enlisted, I was in high school, straight out of high school. I joined the military and went into that. And when I came back, I got a scholarship and I, my goal was to enter politics. I was a poly-sci major and hope to go to law school, but then I took intro to psychology. And I fell in love and it just spoke to me. Um, it resonated with me just in my personal life, as well as professionally. I just felt like I understood it and got it. And so I changed my major to psychology at that time, still thinking that I would pursue a law degree. Psychology degrees are great degree to have if you're going into criminal law. And then I went to grad school and decided I want to do, uh, do psychology and particularly school psychology because I, I foolishly thought that when my children were in school, I would take summers off and holidays off and be with them and hang out. And that didn't work out. I ended up opening a private practice and getting involved with military families, primarily dealing with. ADHD trauma and the special issues associated with that depression, anxiety. Uh, relationship difficulties and have really been involved with that since about 95, working with individuals who do that, I primarily do assessments because my background was in school psychology and that's what they primarily do. I ended up getting my, getting my PhD in psychology. Um, more generally speaking. But working in that field and working with families and trying to overcome those types of issues in a way that we don't often see, particularly in military families and where I'm at people just kind of get moved along. We don't have a lot of resources and in Georgia where I live now. And so it often takes several weeks before you get in for an appointment and then several weeks to get a diagnosis. And then several weeks. Weeks they get a treatment plan. So if you have an issue today, it might be six to eight weeks before you get any start working towards any resolution of that issue in the mental health field down here. And it seems to be endemic in the United States everywhere I've been working with national organizations. It seems like people are hurting and we just don't have the availability to get them the help that they need. 

No, it's interesting that you bring that up because I think that one of the most often overlooked. Uh, parts of sort of neurodiversity, um, is the fact that it exists and the fact that it is just as, uh, um, you know, you wouldn't, someone has a, has a bone sticking out of her leg, right? You wouldn't, uh, say, okay, in six weeks we can look at this, right? 

Yep. That's right. The same issue we have, we have decisions that this is, this is important. And, and just because you can't see, it doesn't mean it's not real. It doesn't mean it isn't drastically affecting. 

That's right. That's right. It's it's, that's very true. I didn't think about it that way. I was just thinking you were going to go a little bit different direction. The idea, not only do we have the, just the lack of resources, but then once you get to a resource you're just a bad parent, or maybe you should do this differently, or maybe your kid's just a bad kid, you know, they don't get the support.

You're exactly right. If you walk in with a bone sticking out of your leg, they don't say, well, maybe you should just walk it off. Come back in a couple of really hurt. That much could be in a baby. And, you know, it's interesting because I think that, that we've definitely improved, um, from where we were say 10, 15, 20 years ago. But you know, the flip side of that is that 30 years ago when I was in school, it didn't exist. I mean, it did, but in our world, it didn't, it was sit down, you're disrupting the classes. Right, right. You know, and yeah, there was. Good. I was just going to say it to build on that. There was a lot of different, um, avenues for that where sit down, you're disrupting the class or, or teachers seem to have a little more discretion as the classes didn't seem to be as crowded as they are today. I think, plus we are finding that because we're talking about it and because we're understanding it more, there is more of an acceptance that, okay, this is real, but I don't think it's, it's made at that point yet where it's like, okay, this is real. Let's treat it with the same level of respect and urgency that we would something that we've known for a hundred years. 

Right. And I think that it's going to take time, but I think it's what things like, you know, people you are doing that is it's sort of helping that move forward. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. And I think, um, kind of along those lines, if, if I could expand upon that a little bit, the idea that what we're doing now, I've been in private practice working with individuals, but my co-founders and I started esteem therapeutics with the idea of putting the parent or the individual with the, um, Neurodivergent um, uh, divergence in the driver's seat, so to speak of their treatment plan and their care by giving them the tools when they want it, when they need it at their moment of need, whether that's 2:00 AM or two, two in the afternoon on Saturday, and then giving them the data to see that if the things they're doing are working or aren't aren't working. So that's why we started esteem therapeutics. And it allows, it's an app that is really a super app that connects individuals with all the different, um, technologies and services and platforms that are available today to help with ADHD or depression or anxiety or parenting or stress or trauma. But it puts it all in one place and then allows you to check to make sure what you're doing. The interventions that you're using are actually working as opposed to, like we were talking about in the traditional sense where you come to my office and maybe, maybe you had a good day today. So all we talk about as good stuff, but then. Tomorrow you remember? Oh yeah, I'm really struggling with this, but now you've lost it in that moment of me. So applying technology in a way that every other field, every other professional field in the world uses it. But health and mental health doesn't we don't have a tele-health. Services like we should obviously COVID has changed that to a great extent as we were starting to overcome a lot of that resistance out of necessity, but we've taken that paradigm and shifted it to a way where the individuals in charge as opposed to the professional. Who it feels like a lot of times it's making decisions without giving you all the information, or sometimes you just feel like you're being pushed along, or sometimes you feel powerless or lost or confused because you get inundated with the jargon that we use. And the like me, I'm talking very fast. That's very difficult. So you get somebody in your office, you have an hour, you got to get through all this stuff and then, all right, see you later. Well, wait a minute. We didn't even talk about this, right? Well, we don't have time. Sorry. 

And I think that, you know, there's a, there's a second separate angle of that, which is that, you know, when we get excited about something that we really want to talk about, we lose track of time. Anyway, time, you know, ADHD, you have two types of time you have now and not now. And so if I have that ability to talk to you, yeah, next thing I know it's going to be 60 minutes. You're gonna be like, and I'm like, well, we touched on the half of one topic. Right. That's exactly right. Yeah. Um, I don't know, go back to your military service for a second because, you know, as I get older and I realized that, um, w what my ADHD actually requires is such a surprising amount of rigidity.

Right. And that's something I never thought that I was supposed to have as a kid. I hate it. I write, I hated rigidity. I remember my, the only job I've ever had, it was America online and they let me do whatever I want. As long as I got the work done, when I, when it was due, I didn't care what time I did at three in the morning. But then my next job after that lasted two weeks, because they had meetings 8:30 AM, this and that. And it was terrible. But the more I start to understand maybe HD and get diagnosed and really sort of see it. I realized that. My best days are when my calendar is solid and I'm scheduled, you know, from first thing in the morning until the time it's time to go home. And I don't have that time to sort of goof off and fall down a rabbit hole. Right. And the more it will is that the more sort of thinking that, you know, wow, the military might've been really beneficial for me, but I think what I was at that age 18, they did, I wouldn't have understood that. Right. Because we didn't know what I had or what was going.

Yeah, I think that's very true. I think we see, there are a lot of individuals with ADHD who thrive in the military and you see a lot of people there. It is very structured. Um, it's very interesting because it's, it's not like going off to college or going off to a job. It's almost like you move in with another set of parents. You have. The staff non-commissioned officers in cos the sergeants and first sergeants and whatnot. And then you have officers, so you have multiple levels of accountability. Um, and then you have in the military, in the army, at least when I was in, we had a buddy and everywhere you went and got a buddy and you didn't go anywhere without your buddy and you never left your buddy. And anytime you're in any training or doing anything you were with your buddy, So you have that, um, amount of accountability. The frustrating part about the military is one of the things. If you've ever talked to anyone in the military, one of the true tenants of the military is a hurry up and wait, right? So you have these, you have this mission, you have this job yet, whatever you have to do, you got to hurry up. Hurry up, go, go, go, go, go. Uh, for example, when I got deployed to the middle East, we rushed, I got the call on Wednesday at like 8:00 PM, 4:00 AM. We were all on a bus going around Stein air base to catch a flight to go. And then when we pitched a tent and sat on the tarmac for four days, played a lot of space. Yeah. So that part is extremely frustrating and difficult when you have ADHD and you're just kind of bouncing off the walls and you don't have the freedom to just get up and leave, but you're, you're a hundred percent correct having structure having stability having consistency is part of the key for overcoming those kinds of difficulties. When we, as individuals, don't mess with ADHD, don't necessarily fit in with how society is driven or saying we have to do things. And it's one of the things I've carried over, you know, everywhere. When I go home, my wallet, my keys, my watch, they all go in the same place every day. And lately with everything that's been going on, that hasn't been happening. So I'm freaking out every morning. Well, I took my wallet. Luckily I have a. What are these, these little things where you push a button, then it will find it for you tile. I have tile in my wallet, so, uh, so I can find my wallet and I hadn't used it for probably two years, but then the last couple of months I've used it at least once a week. So having that structure and that discipline is very important. 

Definitely. Do you feel that, um, you learned a lot of, sort of the, the, uh, structured tips that you apply to yourself today in the military? I mean, I know that. That I have a, a good, a good friend of mine passed away recently, but was a former Navy seal. And, um, You know, in just being friends with him. I learned so many things that I could do to guarantee my productivity and to guarantee that I wouldn't go down those rabbit holes. And I, he told me he learned, you know, all of them in, in, in the seals and in the teams. And I just wonder, um, you know, is that almost an advantage in some way?

Yeah, I think so. I definitely think it is. I mean, overall, the net net is a positive in the sense that you're learning, that kind of structure and that kind of self-discipline and basically self monitoring and self mentoring kind of thing so that you can manage those things better. Not necessarily because a lot of times with parents dealing and teachers and schools and the legal system, we punished individuals who have ADHD, you know, you didn't do this, you didn't do that. You didn't do this. So you're getting in trouble in the military. It's more structured in the sense that, uh, okay, you need to do this or you need to be here. What are you doing? We got to do this. Or, you know, it's a lot of looking out for each other and having those safeguards in place to make sure that you're able to develop those skills and use them. And then as an individual to carry those over in that sense, a lot of times with. Parents, the parents just do it for their kids. You know, they don't structure it. They just say, Hey, here's your lunch? Here's your school stuff. Here's your, because they get frustrated with the idea of having this time date every morning before school starts, so they just take it over. But in the military, you don't get it that way. That it's very empowering in the sense that they're. Teaching you the skills and then monitoring those skills, kind of an education. We call it scaffolding. You know, we, we, we build the scaffold, the safety net around you, and then we help you develop those skills as you go along.

What do you say to parents who are, you know, you're sitting there with them for the first intake and they're, they're, they're sort of coming to grips with their new. Type of child, right. They've just been told that, you know, it's ADHD, whatever the case may be, you know? And, and, and they obviously have a lot of things in way to their mind and they're not all positive. 

Yeah. So the first part of that is empathy, trying to have empathy and understanding. It helps that I have ADHD. It helps that I have two, I have twin 17 year old twins. It helps that they, I have two children who have ADHD, and I went through this process as a parent twice. I mean, it's interesting because they hit at different times, even though they're twins. And my daughter hit in like first or second grade and my son was a little older before his symptoms started becoming an issue. But, uh, having that kind of empathy and understanding, we've talked about this kind of at the beginning, instead of pushing along and forcing them along, having the patience to sit and listen to their frustrations and concerns, and then normalizing it, you know, a lot of times; well, he has this, and that's the end of it. No, not necessarily. There's a lot of people who have ADHD or neurodivergent who are very successful. And if you can turn this into a strength and use that strength by not putting them in a box or not making them do things exactly the same way everybody else does, then. Then there's an opportunity for growth and an opportunity to use those things in a more positive with that. The point of that, isn't a spinning, you know, aw, this was great. You know, it's not, but to put it in the proper context so that they understand and then allow them the opportunity to have a sounding board so that they can speak about how they feel about missing. I think. 

That point is a very good one because parents, a lot of times don't get that support. What they hear is you should have done this. If you'd just spanked your kid, he'd be fine. If you set better limits, if you did visit, you know, what they hear is you're a bad parent. 

Exactly. And that's not the case. And we're dealing with exceptional situations where the exceptional children with exceptional skills and abilities. So, so being able to overcome that idea that, you know, you screwed up or you're just a horrible person and then giving them the opportunity to voice that structured, not structured. Um, um, supportive listening is important to just letting them kind of vent; so that's kind of the key. And probably the biggest thing I like to reinforce to parents is that they're being too harsh on themselves when we talk. One of the things I think is important as for. Individuals to treat themselves the way they would treat other people. And that's kind of a flip of the common saying, but if somebody came to you and said, Oh my gosh, I'm so depressed, I don't know what to do. I'm a horrible parent because my kid was just diagnosed with ADHD. You would say, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that maybe you can do this, or maybe you can look at that, but when it's your kid, Oh, I suck. I screwed up. I can't believe I did this. What's wrong with me. I'm a horrible parent. I'm a horrible person. You know, we, we tend to beat ourselves up way worse than we would someone else. So being kind to yourself in those moments, uh, when you don't necessarily feel as strong as you should, I think is important. And we forget that. 

Awesome. How can people find you? Because I know that I know that they're going to have questions, so what's the, what's the best way to get to talk to Dr Tommy Black. 

Chooseesteem.com. Uh, lots of owes, lots of E's choose of steam.com, um, is probably the best way or the next best way is if they go to the app store, the Apple app store and download the app or on Facebook, they can find us on esteemtherapeutics.com. Um, and then they can reach out to me. We're pretty active on Facebook. So if they have a message that you get to me, Or if they go to the website, we have a contact us there as well. So, and I'm always available. Sometimes it takes a couple of days to get back to emails. When I get it, the workload gets pretty heavy, but, um, But we love to hear from families and connect them with resources and work through the system because we understand and appreciate how difficult that is.

Yup. No question, man. Awesome. Very, very cool. Well guys, even listening to that timing like dr. Blake, thank you so much for taking the time. I truly appreciate it. This was a really informative interview and I'm going to have you back at some point, if you're cool with that, I'd love to love to see the conversation a few months.

Sounds great. Thanks Peter. I really appreciate you having me and having the opportunity to talk about these important issues, especially at this time. 

No question. Guys has always you’ve been listening to Faster Than Normal. If you liked what you heard, drop us a note, write us a review, let us know what you think. We'd always love to hear from you! We're always looking for wonderful new guests like Dr. Black or anyone else who might, you might think might work. On the show, let us know. You can find us on Twitter. Normal at petershankman that's me. Uh, our email is what's our email. Peter@shankman.com works just as well. And we look forward to talking to you guys again next week, stay healthy, stay inside, wear a mask that you can actually just wear a mask. That's not a new question and make sure you vote. We'll talk to you guys soon. Take care.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Coach Tony has studied Psychology, Clinical Counseling, Ontology, Spirituality, is a certified 

Gallup Strengths Coach and has a Master’s in Business Administration.  He owns several small businesses and is committed to making a difference in the lives of others.  Coach Tony believes that transformation is available to anyone that is willing to put in the work.  For more information on Coach Tony or to book an appointment or speaking engagement with him, please email him directly at: Tony@CoachTony.life or his website: www.CoachTony.life Today we’re talking about how to plant cabbage- if you happen to like cabbage, his ADHD, how and why he is a happy and successful coach who’s constantly helping others. Enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Coach Tony Taylor discuss:

1:05-  Intro and welcome Coach Tony!

1:40-  Tell us about how you got your start, why you love helping other people- what’s your story?

2:55-  On how having a faster than normal brain helps, and how it can not help us if we don’t do the work.

4:20-  On setting boundaries and sticking to a list/accountability ref: Meditation for Dummies

5:17-  How do you meditate when the ADHD does’t shut off?

6:08-  Does cardio still work for your ADHD brain? How does mental conditioning work for you?

8:08-  On playing the tape forward/setting yourself up for success

8:28-  What are some of the biggest challenges you’ve witnessed via coaching during COVID-19?

10:10-  On helping to teach people the only thing we can control is how we’re responding to life

10:50-  On the concept of “forward motion is thrilling”. Ref: Seth Godin interview on FTN

12:15-  On making the best out of the cards your dealt

13:03-  How do you align your thoughts with what you’re creating and doing in the world. Ref: Mind Your Garden: The seeds you plant today become the realities of tomorrow (Live YOUR life!)

14:14-  If you don’t like cabbage, don’t plant cabbage!

15:20-  How can people find you?  Website at www.coachtony.life @tonyblisstaylor on: Twitter  coach_tonytaylor on INSTA  and CoachTonyTaylor on Facebook or via email: tony@coachtony.life

13:30-  Thank you Tony! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

16:07-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

We have a new sister video cast called 20MinutesInLockdown! A video podcast devoted to learning fascinating lessons from interesting humans all around the world, all in 20 minutes or less!  20 Minutes in Lockdown was born in early April of 2020, when we were in fact, in lockdown, and couldn’t do much of anything. Realizing that more than ever, people could benefit from learning from people outside of their comfort zone – people with interesting stories to tell, people with good advice, people with useful ideas that could help improve lives, we started hosting short Facebook video interviews, and we grew from there. (Plus, you can actually see my hair colors change before your very eyes!) Check it out:  www.20MinutesInLockdown.com

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter, Shankman welcome to episode two, zero one, the 201st episode of Faster Than Normal. I'm thrilled to have you here. If you missed episode 200, go check it out. It taught me why we take risks, why I like jumping out of airplanes, and I pretty much knew why I do stupid things sometimes, and I bet you're gonna fit right in and check it out.

Episode 201. I can't believe we're at 2-0-1! [editors note: technically this is episode 202, we don’t always air in-sequence]. Our guest today, Tony, you're the first person in the, I guess the two's, but isn't 200. So welcome. Hey, thanks. I'm excited to be here. Got it. Coach Tony, just going by coach Tom coach. Tony has studied psychology clinical counseling, ontology spirituality. He's a certified Gallop strength, strength coach, and has a master's in business administration. You know, in several small businesses, he committed to making a difference in the lives of others. He believed the transformation is available. Anyone willing to put in the work, which when you're ADHD, you don't really have a choice. Welcome to the show. It's good to have you tell us about you. How did you discover that you liked helping other people? How, tell us about your background. How did you start the whole story? 

Well, you know, coming through, um, a background of adversity, um, single parents, Abandonment from my father, child abuse. I really learned that I had to fight for what I wanted in life. And. I also learned that a life of contribution is the only fulfillment that satisfies me. Um, I created businesses and made money and went after the material realm and it just was empty and meaningless. And when I started coaching and I focused on helping other people achieve the breakthrough of their glass ceiling and getting a life that they love. It became a life that I can't retire from. You know, I say that when I started coaching, uh, six years ago that I officially retired from working because I worked seven days a week. Um, I have a lot of fun things going on and it's all around being a contribution to peace. Awesome. Do you find, I find that that when I help, it just makes for better life. Everything just becomes better when you're health. Well, and I mean, with the faster than normal brain taking the thoughts that I have and not giving them any energy, because I'm focusing on somebody else and what they're up to. It's relaxing. 

So tell us about, about that. So you coach people. So, so as ADHD and, and, and yourself and the whole thing, and having the festival brain talk about sort of the top, let's go with the top five things. And let's let's let's let's let's look at it from a negative perspective. What are the top five things that people that ESG or neurodiversity continually do to themselves that hurts them, that prevents them from moving forward? 

Well, I think, um, Addictive addictive behavior and certain addictions can get in the way. Um, I know I can find myself and have found myself in the past trapped in like a vicious circle of doing things that I know are good for me, but I need something to give that adrenaline or that boost to keep going. Um, you talk a lot about, uh, adrenaline junkie, right? Like I think that. Can be a negative, but also I think that is what empowered me to write, illustrate and publish a book in six months. So it's honing in that energy to do what you're up to instead of. I'm letting it get carried away and run yourself over. Um, yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a big thing. Um, I need a lot of boundaries and a schedule to follow, um, and it's not necessarily of listening to my faster than normal brain. It's doing what's on the list. No matter if I feel like doing it or not. Um, and being accountable to yourself and really holding yourself accountable to that schedule, um, has helped me out a ton. I have to get in cardio, um, because I have additional energy and if I don't use it in that kind of realm, um, it will sneak up and get in my way of being productive. Um, I'm a huge fan of meditation. Um, Stephan BoDean has a book meditation for dummies. It's just. It totally changed my world, um, to be able to take out 40 minutes of my day and be in silence and be able to sit literally in silence without getting run over by my thoughts. 

How do you do that when your brain, when the ADHD brain doesn't shut off?

Well, it, it doesn't shut off, but instead of experiencing the thoughts and feeling them and wanting to be an action around them, I just sit and observe the thoughts. Um, meditation isn't I think there's a problem in our society that says, Oh yeah, meditate. And just sit down and shut your mind off. And it's like, are you kidding me? Have you ever been inside my brain? They're shutting this off, but there is an ability to rise above those thoughts and just observe them with no feeling, um, or compelling need to be an action around them. It's just kind of like watching clouds go by. Um, instead of making it mean something, it's just, it is what it is.

Interesting. I feel that. So talk, go back to cardio for a second. You know, I used to be this huge cardio junkie. Oh my God. Cardio credit cards. And I still am. I mean, I still get my pellets on every morning, but I'm finding more and more. So over the, during the, during the, um, the lockdown, you know, I couldn't go to my gym. So I had my bike in my bedroom, but then I wanted to keep lifting. So I bought two 22 pound kettlebells and started just changing my life with them. And one of the things I've learned is that I think the closest to meditation I can get is when I say in a series of 20 reps of like shoulder presses, right. And by rep. 12 it's starting to hurt. Right. And what I've found is if I just say to myself in my mind, it doesn't hurt, it doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt it. Opposite still hurts. But I came to get through the set with quote, unquote, less pain it's burning. You know how, when you do a set and you're just by 20, you're like burning, it just hurts. No, and it still hurts, you know, without question, but I feel like. It's the simple act of saying that the positive affirmation in my brain, this doesn't hurt. You're not in pain helps me go further. And I've never experienced that before. And I'm wondering if that is also somehow tied to the dopamine.

Absolutely. You know, I'm a, I'm a firm believer of what you think about you bring about, you've had the experience of getting on a treadmill or your Peloton in the morning being like, Oh, this is going to be an awful ride. Or this is going to be a tough run. My knees aren't into it today, whatever we, you know, those thoughts that we have, the run's going to reflect that, or the exercise is going to reflect that. But when you go in and say, you know, this doesn't hurt. And this is, this is exactly what I'm committed to. This is going to feel great. I'm going to feel so good after this is done. The exercise reflects that as well. So it's, it's finding that zone, um, and aligning your thoughts with an action. That's bigger than you. I find that that a lot of it, and I've mentioned this in the podcast, countless times, the concept of playing the tape forward, right? How am I going to feel something? If I don't, if I don't wake up right now and go to the gym or I don't wake up and get on that bike, like I said, I was going to. What's my day going to be like, and yeah, tonight and I come back to this bed, I'm going to be happy with that's awesome. And it works. Yeah. And tell me about some of the biggest problems that you're, that you see, um, from coaching, both from a, just in general perspective and from what we've experienced the past eight months of this year, Just don't be a nightmare COVID, uh, situation.

Yeah. Well, like I said before, I'm a huge believer of what you think about you bring about. And when I looked around society, you know, six years ago and I was in a transitional spot in my life where I could either go full time coaching or maintain some media buying businesses that I did. I saw the world resigned and I saw the world stopped by their own fears and glass ceilings and, and coming from the diverse background that I came from, I know that it wasn't easy and I know it took something, but I knew it was probably possible. And I just got called to talk to people and what's possible for them in their lives. Um, and. With the COVID situation and the lockdown, like the first two weeks, I was like, Oh, this is, you know, this is just going to blow over. It's going to be fine. Um, and after two weeks of me and my husband drinking, probably too much wine and staying up too late and getting out of our routines, it was like, okay, now what? I need to be an action around something. And. For people, I could feel their fear on the planet of like being in lockdown and not knowing what this virus was or what the future was gonna hold is what really inspired me to write my inner garden. Um, the seeds you plant today become the realities of tomorrow to put a little hope in the world in a time during perceived darkness. Um, I just. I think that for me, in my ADHD and faster than normal brain, I have to be an action. And this book a big part of it to help teach people that. Even no matter what's going on in the, in the world, in the universe, the only thing we can control is how we're responding to it and rise above the fear and stay in actions that you're committed to, to achieving in the world, whether it's a lockdown situation or not other ways, we spend too much time with our thoughts and it can be a downward spiral for everyone. If you don't have a faster than normal brain, but especially with a faster than normal brain, it can get defeating. 

Well, my mother used to always tell me that, um, when I was a kid that I don't like it when the grass grows under my feet. Right. And then I came to realize what she meant was that was, um, The premise of, um, being, I, I don't like not moving. I don't like not being in motion. And then Seth Godin, when I had him on the podcast, he, he quoted the phrase board motion is thrilling. Yeah. All right. And for people like us, we need that. And so, you know, I mean, March 8th, I stepped off a plane at Newark airport, 1130 at night. And, um, if I've known those me last time, I'd be in plain for seven months now. I, I probably would've stayed a few more minutes getting my bags down and, um, You know, so I went from 250 miles an hour to zero overnight. That was just a bitch. And so I had to learn how to create forward motion while not necessarily doing. And that was, it was a tough lesson, but it's benefited me in a lot of ways. I, you know, I'm up earlier now. I ever have been because doing the whole single dad, a homeschooling thing, the only time I really have to work out without being interrupted every 30 minutes was dad, how do I log out of this? How long did that. Is, you know, 4:00 AM 4:30 AM or whatever. And so if I still wanna be able to get work done and then be there for the daughter, it's it's even earlier. So, but, and so I've found ways to get that forward motion that it's totally going on a plane or skydiving, whatever, which the things I missed. But I could still figure out ways of doing stuff well, and that's just empowering and inspiring to hear, you know, it's taking the, the cards in the hand that life deals you and making the best of it and figuring out, you know, okay, these aren't the, the cards I would have chosen and how can I stay committed to what I'm committed to regardless.

I truly believe that. And I know the other thing is I think that what you said about not being able to control all you control is, is, is your reactions to things. I think that was a lesson when I learned that really changed my life. Like how do whatever. And so the question becomes, I think for a lot of people, what can they do too? 

Implement that it's one thing to say, Oh, I can only control it, but it's another thing when, you know, someone's slamming in your back. You know, I think that that if anyone's gonna win the Nobel prize this year, it should be Biden for not, you know, not going off and punching Trump in the face when he mentioned this dead set. Right. How do you create ways of staying in your own space and staying calm and staying focused? What kind of tricks can you, can you tell the audience, you know, when, when shit does go south. 

Yeah. So my book, Mind Your Garden is all about doing that. It's aligning your thoughts with what you're really committed to doing and creating in the world. And yes, we can get frustrated by ridiculous things that come out of people's mouth and in. Yeah. I mean, it can enrage us with like, I hate you feelings, or we can elevate to a level of observing. Like I get that's how I feel, but what am I really committed to? So for me in coach Tony, I'm committed to, co-creating a world that works. And what I see in the world that doesn't work is this constant. Belittling and fighting and name calling and negative energy. All of that stuff that we're seeing every day, isn't working, what would work. And I believe if we could all level a little louder today and be the expressive people and connected people that we came here to be and help each other out. Instead of just looking out for ourselves, we can create a world that works. So it's all about observing the thought. And before you react to that thought of, I want to punch you in the face, like, wait, does that align with what I'm creating in the world and what I'm up to? Yes. Okay. Go punch him in the face or know what would, and what could I, sir, there's nothing ever missing in the universe. So if you read that at least you thought you have to replace the thought. And my book talks about just like a garden. If you grow cabbage and you hate cabbage. Don't plant cabbage, plant broccoli, plant, whatever you want

Yeah. I totally agree with that statement. The concept, if you, if you don't, you know, why would you waste time doing something you hate and yet millions of people still do that. 

Yeah. And we're kind of addicted to it. It we're addicted to that kind of reaction in that ability to have revenge, but the only person we're hurting is us. You know, Gandhi saying, be the change you want to see in the world. Right? Like there is something to that and if you want more love, be more love. Um, so yeah, a hundred percent. I love it. 

Tell us how people can find you. Um, you know, I'm on the S all the socials coach, Tony Taylor, um, my website, www.coachtony.life Um, my new book, mind your garden is on Amazon and my website. And I'm here to inspire and help and do what I can to make this world work better than guys. The book is called mind your garden. I recommend checking it out. Tony, thank you so much for being on a normal day. I truly appreciate it. Absolutely.

Thanks for having me!

Guys, we’re back next week with a brand new episode; keep staying in touch, stay healthy, wear your mask, the pandemic’s not over, were your mask, just because we're used to it doesn't mean it's over. Okay. And, um, be safe. We'll talk to you guys soon. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We'll see you soon.

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Rich founded Revibe in 2013 to provide tools and technologies that level the playing field for kids with focus and attention challenges to allow them to reach their fullest potential. Rich spent much of his career working as a school psychologist specializing in autism spectrum disorders, serving on several school district autism evaluation teams. He has personally evaluated hundreds of children with various developmental needs and provided consultation and insight for over one thousand cases.  He is truly passionate about helping children with various difficulties overcome obstacles to attain success. 

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION 

In this episode Peter & Rich Brancaccio discuss:

1:20-  Intro and welcome Rich!

1:40-  So what, what prompted you to become a school psychologist to begin with?

2:20-  On starting the company ReVibe

3:20-  Tell us about how the company came about to begin with.

5:00-  On how the new product “Revibe Connect” works in the classroom

7:20-  On how the data collected is beneficial and to whom; including how teachers can use it.

9:30-  What kind of feedback are you getting from the teachers? 

10:22-  What’s the process for parents or teachers to sort of get into this and start using it?

10:58-  Have you gotten any feedback from doctors at all on this yet?

12:03-  How many students are currently using this around the country?

12:15-  What's the price point on it?

13:00-  Some free resources for your homeschooling are at Revibetech.com! i.e. “How To Help Your Child Adjust To Virtual Learning or The New Classroom”

12:37-  How can people find you?  Website at www.RevibeTech.com @Revibe_Tech on: Twitter  INSTA and @RevibeConnect on Facebook

13:30-  Thank you Rich! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

23:33-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

We have a new sister video cast called 20MinutesInLockdown! A video podcast devoted to learning fascinating lessons from interesting humans all around the world, all in 20 minutes or less!  20 Minutes in Lockdown was born in early April of 2020, when we were in fact, in lockdown, and couldn’t do much of anything. Realizing that more than ever, people could benefit from learning from people outside of their comfort zone – people with interesting stories to tell, people with good advice, people with useful ideas that could help improve lives, we started hosting short Facebook video interviews, and we grew from there. (Plus, you can actually see my hair colors change before your very eyes!) Check it out:  www.20MinutesInLockdown.com

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter Shankman here with another episode of Faster Than Normal, thrilled that you're still here. Hope you're safe and well and wearing your mask. Uh, we have a cool episode today. We are talking to a psychologist, former school psychologist and countless years, the school district in North Carolina. He specializes in autism autism spectrum disorders serving on several school district autism evaluation teams. He's worked with about 800 children with tons of different developmental needs, but a compensation and insight for over 100,000 cases, and is one of the most passionate people I've ever talked to about helping children with various difficulties overcoming obstacles to attain success, his name is rich, and I'm going to screw up your last name it’s.. Brancaccio? Is that right? 

That's close enough, Peter.

 Brancaccio, alright, good enough. Almost there. And in 2013, after you left the schools, you started a company called Revibe. And that goal is to provide tools and technologies that level, the playing field for kids with focus and attention challenges, right?

I did. That's correct. 

Tell us what got you in. So, so what, what prompted you to become a school psychologist to begin with? That's a, you know, not off the beaten path, but not something everyone does. 

So I really had a passion for helping kids and I was vacillating between, do I want to be a teacher? Do I want to be a psychologist and realize one day there was a profession called school psychology where I could do both. I could become a psychologist who worked with children in the school system. So it was just the perfect. Perfect job for me.

It seems like how long were you there? I was a school psychologist for about 10 years. Okay. And then you went out, you left and he's like, Hey, I could do, I could form this company and help everyone. 

Um, it was, it was somewhat in between. I, I did the, um, work 40 hours during the waking hours. And then I was also doing about another 40 hours, um, afterschool and deep. Into the nights. So I was sleeping about three or four hours a night for about four years until I actually went full time and took the Revibe as my only full time gig.

Crazy it gets, I can say, imagine it gets a little busy, huh? 

Yeah, it's, it's interesting. You, you learn just how little sleep you actually need to function. Um, but then, you know, I feel like years later it's probably taken some kind of a toll on me that I'm paying back now, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade it for the world. You have to do what you have to do when you're trying to get, um, a venture off the ground. 

Once I got older, I realized that, uh, all the sleep that I lacked in college and beyond most definitely caught up with me. So no question about that, that definitely does happen. Uh, so tell us about Revibe You started in 2013. What kind of tools technologies tell us about the company? Sure. So Revibe came about, um, at a parent meeting actually, while I was sitting in, in school. Uh, I had, uh, a mother I was working with, um, I had helped her dog butter gear before and her daughter had reading challenges. Um, but you get really frustrated with us as a, as a school. And she said, you know, you had, he's amazing. Um, you know, the collection methods and interventions that helped my daughter, you quickly figured out what the problem was and had these solutions for her, for her reading challenges. But for my son, with his focus, you guys have almost nothing. And I, I had to concur with her and I said, yeah, there's really not a lot of technology that's around for folk isn't for ADHD in particular. Um, so that's where revive started. It was just a, a lack of resources for the kids that I was working with. 

Interesting. And what, what, tell us about the company. What does it do? What kind of technology? What have you produced? What have you built?

sure. So I built. I built the first one by hand, I taught myself micro electronics and I, I wrote some algorithms that I went to radio shack, like 5,000 times to shrink these giant, uh, circuit boards that was building down smaller and smaller until they fit in the wrist. Um, but to fast forward a little bit, what, what we do now is we we're onto our second product. So Revibe Connect is our, our new products. Um, it's a, it's a smart watch essentially. And what it does is it sends vibration signals to the wrist of the user to remind them to focus and to get back to work. 

What is the, what is the, um, what is the tip off to the watch that they need to do that?

So we collect data from the person hearing it. We focus on children, you know, elementary, middle and high school. So we focus on getting data from the child. It's both, um, self reporting data. So we have the child give us feedback by just a simple tap on the device that they're on task or off task. We also collect movement data. So we're looking at how they're moving. Are they fidgeting? Are they being hyperactive? Um, and we, we take several different things into account and that's how we personalize these vibrations. We use something called machine learning. So we, we actually start to learn the child's patterns or needs, what classes that they're in when they tend to struggle in one class the most and so the personalized, uh, the algorithms actually learn the child's needs and send these vibrations accordingly to give them not too many vibrations, but not, not quite too few either; we try to hit it right in the middle so that they're getting just the right amount when they need them the most.

So a students in class he's, he's studying, he's learning, he starts to go off topics. Let's go off track and, uh,  so this sort of gives them a little tap, says, Hey, back to paying attention. 

Yeah, exactly. We're trying to empower the child. Um, a lot of kids when I was a school psychologist, a lot of kids with ADHD, um, and with focusing issues in general, they're they have a really tough time with self esteem. Um, you know, it's something I've heard some. Folks on your show talk about the for, um, you know, where it's, it's really hard to feel good about yourself when you have your teacher constantly having to call your name out in front of the other kids and remind you to get back to work. Um, so we provide something that just empowers a child, there's no one else hears the vibration or feels it, but you, so you can get yourself back on task. So, let me ask you this. 

So one of the things about ADHD is that essentially it's a lack of dope, mean serotonin adrenaline, those three things, which are the focus chemicals that allow you to sort of focus, um, in class. I know that, you know, the stuff that I used to get called out for by the teachers was, you know, stop fidgeting, stop, stop, messing around, stop making jokes that they would ever went. When in fact, you know, I was doing that without realizing, and of course, to give me the dope man and the serotonin and the adrenaline I needed so I could actually focus, actually wanting to learn. Right. So if you have a, if you have the kids wearing this, um, w where is there still a place for, you know, tremendous value in kids being able to allowed to stand up, being able to work from the back of the room while standing up or walk around or whatever, you know, is, is this, what do we do with that- is that still very much a thing that, that, that, that benefits the kids, right? As opposed to just saying, Hey, you're not paying attention, but rather giving them a, a way to pay attention, giving them that those chemicals they need(?)

That's a great question. Peter, one of the most interesting things for us, with our newer devices, the data that we collect. So we share it back with the child themselves. We share with the parent, the teacher, whomever, the caretaker wants to share the information. One of the things that we learned is as you mentioned, um, moving, and it is not necessarily bad thing. So what we actually do, um, inside of our app is we'll give you an alert and we'll say, Hey, did you know that we've come to realize that let's say for Adam, um, when, when Adam is allowed to fidget 15 minutes or more before social studies each day, he's actually 26% more on task than on days he hasn't had that opportunity. Or when Amanda's been allowed to walk 3000 steps or more before lunchtime each day, her attention span has been six minutes longer on average and foundation, hasn't had the opportunity. So we're trying to educate people and drive, um, proactive decision making by looking at, you know, the, the past behaviors of these kids, or. 

That's actually really interesting and cool- Can you share that with the teachers, you know, and explain to the teachers, Hey, you need to let the kids walk around or whatever the case may be?

Exactly. That's what we leverage it for. So, um, you know, most of most of the people using Revibe, um, are, are parents purchasing it? So they have the ability to, to either provide a guest login for the administrators at school for the teachers, or they can just to touch one button and they can send, uh, an automated PDF report to the school to give them, um, the information that they need to make better decisions for their child.

That seems really, really smart. I would think that that would be tremendously beneficial. 

Yeah, it's been, it's been popular where we're in some of the biggest school systems in the country, because they've all realized the same thing. We don't have any good way to collect data on these kids. And the school systems are now going towards what's called the response to intervention model, which, you know, when you and I were kids, Peter, um, a lot of decisions were made that were just kind of a lick your thumb, put it up in the wind right now, everything has to be data driven and it's hard to collect data on these kids. So, yeah. They're really focusing on, on, you know, new technologies, like what what's the Revibe platform. 

What kind of feedback are you getting from the teachers? 

So the teachers are really like the fact that, um, they're not having to stop teaching every couple of minutes to redirect all these different kids. Cause in a room of 25 or 30 kids, you probably have three four different kids or more who have focused and attention issues. Um, so they're having to constantly stop what they're doing to redirect these kids. Um, the teachers just wanted to teach, you know, they want everyone to learnl they're, they're wonderful people and they have an amazingly tough job, but they just want to be able to teach, um, fluidly and the kids conversely don't want to be reminded and be called out. So it's been a really good win, win for both sides. 

Sounds like it. And, and how can you know, what's the, what's the, um, The, uh, process for parents or teachers too, to sort of get into this and get them, you know, start using it?

So they can just go to our website, which is RevibeTech.com. R E V I B E T ECH.com. Or they can buy it on Amazon if you're impulsive like me, you're like a Roadrunner cartoon. You just want it to show up the same day. You can get it from Amazon, or you can talk to your school about it. A lot of schools are, are purchasing, you know, these, um, Smartwatches and providing them to students.

Have you gotten any feedback from doctors at all on this? 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're, uh, we have a scientific and medical advisory board with some of the top folks in ADHD from a scientific standpoint. So our scientific board is extremely excited about what we're doing and where we're actually going towards, um, the world, uh, of the FDA pretty soon because it works. Um, you know, really well, and we're careful to not make any claims of what our device does. Um, but we're here, we've heard so much, and we've done so much research that now we've said, you know, this is a really strong tool that we need to, to bring to the next level. So that's where we're headed next, but physicians are excited about it as well. Um, so yeah, it's been a really amazing journey to go from something, you know, that started out as a part time venture, uh, from, you know, my, my, my workshop at home to something that we're not taking to such a high scientific-

How many, how many students are currently using at city around the country?

Um, we've got over 25,000 kids, um, you know, and counting that are, are using it. I think looking at both of our devices, we probably have close to 50,000 kids around the country that are wearing it right now. 

What's the price point on it? 

Uh, it's 120 bucks. Um, and then it's about, uh, Four or $5 a month for the data that we store, we keep it up in a cloud. And, um, you know, we share all this data with you, so we try to make it affordable and it's about at the same price as a FitBit.

Yeah, that makes sense. Um, what's the, what's the website? 

Uh, the website is Revibetech.com, R E V I E B E T E C h.com. And, um, you know all the listeners at home I certainly suggest checking out, uh, some of the free resources that we have. A lot of folks are having a hard time with, with COVID-19 right now doing a virtual school from home thing. Um, so we, we, we, we have a parent tool kit, um, to give people some, some advice in terms of what you can do to help your child with focusing issues with ADHD in particular, um, to have a better experience while they're doing this, learn from home,  uh, as someone who, uh, is handling the majority of his daughters, um, Homeschooling. I can certainly relate to that. As I've mentioned before, um, our teachers have all lied to me. She is not a pleasure to have in class, so, but that being said, revive sounds really, really interesting. And we'll definitely check it out. We'll put links on the, on the website and the, on the, uh, on the podcast links to it. And I really appreciate you coming on. Rich. Thank you so much for taking the time. 

Peter. Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure. I'm big fan of the show and it's been, it's been a real treat being there with you. 

Thank you. That’s very kind of you to say!  You guys are listening to fast than normal? If you like, what you're hearing drop us a note. We're always looking for new guests. We have better three or three or four weeks backlog at any given given time. So if you have anyone that you think would be great for the podcast, shoot me an email. peter@shankman.com. Let's find out who that is and let's get that person on the show. We will see you next week, ADHD and all neurodiversity is a gift, not a curse. Let us remember that and go from there.

—

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Dr. Kenneth Carter is a Charles Howard Candler Professor of Psychology at Oxford College of Emory University. He has published in both academic and lay publications, translating psychology research into engaging everyday language. His articles have been published in magazines such as Psychology Today and Women’s Health, and he has appeared on news programs such as NPR’s: ShortWave and NBC’s Today show. The psychology of thrill-seeking is the current focus of Dr. Carter’s research. He has delivered a TEDx talk on thrill-seekers and presented on the subject in March 2020 at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. His most recent book is Buzz!: Inside the Minds of Thrill-Seekers, Daredevils, and Adrenaline Junkies (Cambridge University Press). When not teaching, speaking, or writing, Dr. Carter prefers reading and relaxing on the beach to wingsuit flying or BASE jumping. Today we’re talking about it all, well, all that we can get to in our time today.

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION also EPISODE 200!!!***

Hey guys, Peter Shankman here with a very special episode of Faster Than Normal. Welcome to episode number 200! For the past four and a half, almost five years we have been changing the world and showing people that ADHD and all forms of neurodiversity are in fact a gift, not a curse. I hope that over these past several years we've helped you understand yourself, helped you understand your children, your coworkers, your spouses, your lovers, your friends, and helped you realize that having ADHD doesn’t mean that you're broken. It actually means you're gifted! I am thrilled for episode 200 as we welcome one of my heroes, who has just now learned that he’s one of my heroes, Dr. Ken Carter. Thank you so much to every single one of you who has participated, and listened throughout these 200 episodes. I could not have done this without you and I am honored every single time I get to do this!

In this episode Peter & Dr. Carter discuss:

1:20-  Intro and welcome Dr. Ken Carter!

3:30-  Let’s talk about the concept of risk taking and what you’ve learned.

5:50-  On thrill-seekers versus high risk takers

6:20-  Peter about his first solo skydive

8:15-  On euphoria followed by  sustained calmness. 

11:20-  Can you talk about the proximity connection between thrill-seekers and addictive personality?

13:23-  In the research you've done, do you see that correlation between thrill seekers and the people who sort of have to be more aware of their personalities?

14:24-  On type “T-positive” and type “T-negative” thrill-seekers 

17:30-  Careers and on getting a high via a entrepreneurship or becoming a first responder

19:40-  What do you say to a parent who’s been handed a pamphlet right after their child has been diagnosed with ADHD, ADD or otherwise neurodiverse?

21:52-  How can people find you?  Website at www.DrKenCarter.com. email: kennethCarter@emory.edu  @DrKenCarter on:  Twitter  INSTA  @DrKennethCarter on Facebook  and you can find his book “Buzz!: Inside the Minds of Thrill-Seekers, Daredevils, and Adrenaline Junkies” here! 

22:38-  Thank you Dr. Carter! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

23:33-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

We have a new sister video cast called 20MinutesInLockdown! A video podcast devoted to learning fascinating lessons from interesting humans all around the world, all in 20 minutes or less!  20 Minutes in Lockdown was born in early April of 2020, when we were in fact, in lockdown, and couldn’t do much of anything. Realizing that more than ever, people could benefit from learning from people outside of their comfort zone – people with interesting stories to tell, people with good advice, people with useful ideas that could help improve lives, we started hosting short Facebook video interviews, and we grew from there. (Plus, you can actually see my hair colors change before your very eyes!) Check it out:  www.20MinutesInLockdown.com

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter Shankman here with a very special episode of Faster Than Normal. Welcome to episode number 200! For the past four, four and a half, almost five years we have been changing the world and showing people that ADHD and all forms of neurodiversity are in fact, a gift, not a curse. And I hope that over these past four, four and a half years, we've helped you, we've helped you understand yourself, helped you understand your children, your coworkers, your spouses, your lovers, your friends, and helps you realize that having ADHD doesn’t mean that you're broken. It actually means you're gifted. I am thrilled. 

For episode 200 we welcome one of my heroes. And I say that up until about five minutes ago, I'd never met the guy and he had no idea I was, but Dr. Kenneth Carter has written a book- what, several books with the book he wrote recently, it's called “Buzz. Inside the minds of thrill seekers, dare devils and adrenaline junkies” published by Cambridge University press. He's presented on that same topic at TEDx. He's spoken at SouthX. He does prefer relaxing on the beach to wingsuit flying and BASE jumping. And we'll get into that in a second, but Dr. Kenneth Carter is a Charles Howard Candler professor of psychology at Oxford college of Emory university. He's published in both academic and lay publications. Translating say psychology research into engaging everyday. Language he's had articles in Psychology Today, Women's health he's been on short wave and a PR he's been on NBC is today's show along with my ex girlfriend, strangely enough, Dr. Jennifer H. Um, the psychology of thrill-seeking as, as he puts it is the current focus. Dr. Carter's research. And I am just so thrilled that you took the time. Thank you so much for being on today.

Thank you for having me and congratulations on 200 episodes. It's not easy. 

It isn't. And you know, again, that's the ADHD way when I started the podcast and I see how it goes. Right. And now we're at 200 when I, when I went out and when I quit my last job that I ever had, one of my own, once I will say, when I feel like when I can't make it work, not if right. Yeah. I was so thrilled to have you, so. 

You know, let's, let's start off very basic. So the, the, the, the concept of thrill secret, I remember dating a woman once, probably in 2003, when I started getting my license for 2005 and her, she found a skydiving. She thought it was okay, but her, I guess she told her dad and her dad, he had-I don't want to say we had a conversation. He did most of the conversing. Right. And he, cause he thought I was gonna marry this girl, honey. And he goes, that was wrong with you. You have a death.. ehy would you do something stupid? And I just remember he kept repeating, give a death wish. And I said, one time, well, no, sir, it's actually about wanting to live. And I realized that was the entirely wrong thing to say because there are people out there who will never get it. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so with that, talk about how you ended up talking about you were getting into and discussing the concept of risk taking and, and sort of let you know what you've learned.

Yeah. You know, it was completely by mistake. So I'm a clinical psychologist and, you know, I am a really chilled guy and I had this idea about 10 years ago for this book and. It was completely different book. It was about some people that I thought of as chaos junkies. And if, when I say that word, everyone instantly has someone in their mind that they think of can have an idea of the book. Yeah. Was to try to get people who were cast junkies. To be more predictable and have a life like mine, which is what a lot of people, which is probably what the, that that father wanted. You know, you know, what, what your parents usually want for you is a completely predictable life that you're happy with. Um, and then when I started really going into the research and I started  to talk about this idea of sensation seeking, I've realized that these high sensation seekers craved chaos because they could control it. And it wasn't something that they needed to stop doing. It was really something they needed to embrace in a way that was going to be healthy for them. And so I abandoned that original book and I decided to really work on helping people understand the, how they're a high sensation seeking personalities can really be a superpower for them. 

That's really interesting that you would abandon and go to something that proved to be right, because the majority of people, and we talked about this before it, before we started recording, the majority of people are told they have to change.

Yeah. Yeah. 

I know. I was told that all my life. 

And, and in the, in the, when you talked about the story about someone and asking if you ever had a death wish, when I asked the, uh, high sensation seekers, what is one thing they want people to understand about what they do? They said. To not think I have a death wish, you know, all I really want to have was a death wish I would just run in and out of traffic. And that's not what it's about. 

If I thought That was going to die every time I jumped out of a plane, I wouldn't do it. 

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. I think a lot of people that are high sensation seekers and thrill seekers really embrace life and what they want is the experience. And one of the hardest things to get people to realize is that there's a huge difference between, uh, a high sensation seeker or a thrill seeker versus a risk taker. Um, people aren't doing these things because they're risky. Is that they can tolerate the chaos to get the experiences they want. That's what they're really after is that experience. 

I, I I'm, I'm just, I'm just loving it. It's just so nice to hear everything in my life validated in a quick 20, 25 minute interview. So let's, let's talk about that for a second. So I remember when I, when I started jumping and the story I always relate to, it was my instructor. You know, you have to do three tandem jumps where you're attached to someone else and your fourth jump, you jump on your own, but you jump on an instructor who's holding onto your belt. Right. Just to make sure you're stable in the sky. And then when he sees that you're stable, he did my whole on you for the entire time. He might like go for a minute, a second or two, and, but you have to pull your own parachute, right? You have to land, you know, your whole, your parachute all by yourself. You have a radio, a little walkie talking to your, in your, your pocket, but you have to Lam and, and it's on you. And I remember that my instructor was probably 300 pounds and I don't remember his name, but 300 pounds. It was the middle of July. He, he, he looked like a sopping wet elephant. Okay. And it was just, and you're in this tight little plane right. And he's just, he's like touching me and holding on. And it all, it was the grossest thing. And I remember I couldn't wait to go to the plaintiffs, so I didn't have to be with that anymore. And I'm scared to death and I guess a good way. It was a good thing that I was focused on that. Cause I wasn't focused about the fear. We exit the plane I'm in a free fall. He signals that I'm doing okay. And he lets go my belt and I stay stable. I pull my parachute and I land and he landed probably about 20 seconds before me and this 300 pound sweaty guy who, what, four minutes ago, I couldn't stand to be anywhere. I ran up to this guy and gave him the biggest, longest bear hug. Right. Just hugging the sweaty as much as I could. And it was, that was the first moment I ever realized. Holy crap. Look at the mind shift I just had and looking back on it. Yeah. I realized what that, you know, every, everything I've ever done professionally has usually come immediately after a Mindshift like that.

Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people who are high sensation seekers say they don't only feel that sense of euphoria and then a sense of calmness, not, not only after they do those kinds of things, but sometimes for weeks after, um, I've talked to some people whenever they have to make big decisions in their lives, they, they, you know, they'll go on a hike, they'll go on a jump they'll base dive, um, or they'll walk on a Slack line. That kind of thing for the people that are high sensation seekers, um, really focuses and really calms them. Very different than someone that's like me who's a low sensation seeker who I get overwhelmed by that, you know? And so one thing I, I try to get people that are low sensation seekers understand is that they're not going to their bodies ren't going to behave like high sensation seekers and vice versa. 

One of the things that I find fascinating is that when I land after jump, there have been times, times when I know I have a lot of writing to do I'm on deadline for a book or an article or something like that, I will turn off Uh, you know, my brain. I'll go do the jump and I'll say, okay, I know I have to do this, this writing, but I'm not going to it's it's Thursday and it's due Monday.

I'm not going to work on it until I jumped and I'll go jump. I'll bring my laptop, the drop zone. I'll . I'll throw my gear in a corner. I'll sit on top of my parachute or something, pull up my laptop and I'll write 10,000 words in an hour. Yeah. And it is a level of focus that is unmatched by almost anything else in the world. And being able to, once I found that, I mean, literally it was, it was like finding the, the, the, the pill from the movie limitless. Yeah. Right. It was that, that Holy crap look at my, I am so focused on it. And I remember the first time I did it. Because I've never, I’d drive home. And the first time I drove home, after, you know, one of my, I don't know, first 20 jumps, whatever I'm driving home and I get pulled over for speeding. And I looked down and going 85 miles an hour on a local road. I didn't even didn't even realize it. Right. And I said to the cop, I'm like, you. Kinda just hang here and wait for it to be, he's like that's my entire day. 

Well, and then the question I have for people that aren't like that is that if you knew there was something that you could do that would bring that level of euphoria and calmness and focus and you know, that kind of thing, why, why, how could you not do it? 

You know, I want to switch the topic a little bit because on that, it reminds me of a great quote, an Aaron Sorkin quote from the West wing where he's interviewing. Okay. The chief of staff, Leo McGarry is, um, talking to someone about being an alcoholic. And he said, I don't understand people who leave a half a glass of wine on the table. I don't understand people who don’t..who don’t want to stop feeling that good. And he talks about being an alcoholic. I have never been quote unquote diagnosed as alcoholic, but I am very aware that I will not have one drink and I have set up my life in such a way that I very rarely drink. I quit for a couple of years and now maybe four times a year. I'll I'll, I'll set up a situation where I'm at home with a friend and I'll have a drink or two or three or four, but I don't leave the house. I don't buy more. And you have to be aware of that. And I think that, can you talk, if you can, about the connection or the, the very close proximity I would imagine, between thrill seekers and addictive personality. 

Yeah. And I think, you know, so there are a couple different components of that thrill-seeking personality and the two that can worry me sometimes are, um, disinhibition, um, your ability to be unrestrained and. Um, boredom susceptibility, um, where people get bored really easily get irritated when they get bored. It's not necessarily people that are the thrill seekers that, that worry me, but the thrill seekers who may not plan out, or to be able to understand how it might impact other people.  Because of the way the, um, you know, chemicals work in the, in the body. A lot of people who are high sensation seekers, um, end up sort of excluding higher levels of dopamine, um, and lower levels of like, um, stress hormones. And those are the same kinds of combination of things that can be, um, problematic for people with addictive personalities or addictive conditions. And so it's, it's important to be really sort of mindful that you're either not doing it too much or doing it in a way that can be a problem for you for other people.

I talk about that a lot in the book, in Faster Than Normal, where you sort of have to set up these life rules, right. Because if you let yourself go off the rails, it doesn't take long. Before those off the rails is like, You know, a six month process. I'm not going to go out and pillage a village after drinking, but I'm going to drink and I'm not going to wake up super early to go to the gym so I'm not going to get dope, mean I need and then be dehydrated. Well, I already blew the morning. I might as well order something bad for lunch. Well, lunch order a pizza it's three weeks later, I've been 20 pounds. Right. And what's good has come out of that. So you sort of have to be aware to prevent yourself from taking that first step. Do you find that and the research you've done, do you see that correlation a lot between thrill seekers and sort of people have to be more aware of their personalities? 

Yeah. I mean, there, there are some research studies that suggest that people that are high sensation seekers may have lower levels of empathy about what other people are experiencing, because we all assume that everyone experiences the world the same way we do. Right? And so that's why you might have someone, who's the highest sensation seekers if you're driving a car darting in and out of traffic, they're calm and chill, but their passengers are really freaked out and they may not know why they're freaked out because they're experiencing the world in a different way. And so a lot of these high sensation seekers have people that I call their anchors, you know, who will be the one that say, Hey. You know, that is more dangerous than you think it is. Or maybe you should rethink about doing that and they trust their anchors to help pull them back from situations that may be problematic for them.

Talk about thrill seekers and, um, something I learned once the concept of type T positive and type T negative, that, that how you go after those thrills, um, might be determined by how you were brought up. Or by what you were sort of, um, exposed to as a kid. I mean, I know that my parents were not, my dad loved roller coasters still does and, you know, and, and we would go on roller coasters, but the concept of skydiving, you know, my, my, my dad's classic would appear: Don't be ridiculous Jews don’t skydive, it's classic quote to me. But, but, um, I remember that, you know, as a kid, he would take me, we'd have, we'd go hiking in Maine and he'd take me to find, um, um, Fire towers, right. When they were still back in the eighties and they're still manned. Right. And we'd yell out to the guy at the top of it and they’d invite us up. We climbed I'm six years old and we're climbing this ladder 200 foot ladder, top of firefighter tower. But I was, I was raised in the respect that I guess that was a thrill. Right. And I enjoyed it, but there are people who are raised to sort of, I guess, type team negative, where you're finding. You know, that's where you go into drugs or crime or whatever, to get that same sort of thrill.

I think, you know, like everything, there's a combination of what could be biological and environmental, even for this personality trait. Um, they, there, there is some evidence that there are some genetic components to thrill seeking. Um, they're higher levels of certain kinds of chemicals in the body. We talked about, um, uh, cortisol and dopamine previously, but you also see higher levels of testosterone, even in women who are thrill seekers, But there are some environmental things that can really help a lot too. Um, having exposure to chaotic environments when you're younger. Um, and there are some high sensation seekers that said that their parents seemed more strict, but the parents may have just seemed strict because they were doing lots of thrill-seeking things as kids. Uh, but we know that that also changes over time. People that are high sensation seeking when they're teenagers or adolescents, it tends to get, go lower as they get older because of those environmental influences, but also because of biological too. So it's a little bit of a mix of both things. 

So the fact that I didn't discover any of this and I almost, I didn't know, my ADHD didn't exist as a kid. It was, it was sit down, you're interrupting the class disease. Right. And so the premise when I was, when I was busted for seeing those from the class, the irony being that I was actually looking around or squirming or fidgeting to find something to give me that dope mean. So I actually could focus. 

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that if people understand what their brain and bodies are capable of and really directed to try to get what they want out of life, I think that's really what the whole idea is. And it's the same for a high sensation seeker or a low sensation seeker. Part of what I've been thinking about more is part of it's really creating and capturing and getting that sense of awe in the world. And that people that are high sensation seekers can, can really tolerate a lot more chaos to get those all experiences. 

Do you feel that, that the premise and I mean, I think it's shifted over the last 20 years, but the premise that we at least I had growing up was, you know, you, you, you, not that being different, it is wrong, but rather there are certain ways you do things. Right. Right. And, and, and doing them other ways, you know, is wrong. And I remember my, my, uh, telling my parents, I was going out on my own. Right. And becoming an entrepreneur were public school teachers, all their lives. And, and, and, you know, it was, it was difficult for them to sort of comprehend. Why I enjoyable…It's so risky. I know, but that's the cool, you never know what, you know today could be I'm not making any money or I'm making my largest contract ever. That's the thrill, you know, and, and, and there's nothing I've yet to find anything that compares to landing a new client or landing a new speaking gig or let you know, it's just a high.

Yeah. And I, and I think that what work is for and what life is for, has changed for a lot of people, you know, over time, or could be different for different people. Um, you know, when I grew up, you know, I was talking to my dad about work, and work wasn't something that you did because you enjoyed it. It was something that you did because you had to have work. And the idea of having a job that might pay less, but that was really fulfilling wasn't really in the list of options for him. And it isn't the list of options for, for a lot of people. But I consider myself so fortunate that I have a job that I am fully engaged in and that I really love. Um, so being able to marry those things together is a magical thing. So a lot of these high sensation seekers have careers in which they use that super power. Um, they are first responders or police officers or firefighters or, uh, emergency room nurses and doctors. They can handle that chaos and turn it into a focused experience. Um, other people decide to use that part of themselves for recreation. Um, but you'd be surprised how many of them really use it every day in their jobs. 

Two more questions. Um, cause I want to respectful your time. Some of the people we've had on the, on the podcast before you have included, uh, Tony Robbins, um, Seth Godin, Keith Cross, who founded DocuSign and is now the secretary of, of, of, of, um, business, uh, in this administration. Uh, we've had, um, uh, the band Shinedown, and every single one of them has said that when they realized they were ADHD, um, they believe that it has benefited them and they, uh, have learned to use that as their skill and as a superpower. Yeah. What do you, and I always ask them the same question. I'm gonna ask it to you too. What do you say to the parent whose child was just diagnosed and, you know, after they get over their first? Aha. Well, that explains it moment. What do you say to them in terms of when they're sitting there going, Oh my god now my son won't be successful. Now he can't do this. Or, you know, they have this preconceived notion of, of, of what success looks like for their child of what your growing up looks like, the child. And this is. A lot of times, you know, they're, they're given this information from a teacher or from a, uh, an administrator with absolutely no, you know…and, and here's a pamphlet. Right. You know, what, what do you say to them to, to sort of talk them off the edge for lack of a better word? 

I think part of this would be having them listen to some of the interviews on your podcast. Um, having them understand that there are different ways to be successful, engaged, and happy in the life that they have. And to choose from their selection of powerful things about themselves to get to where they want to go. And where they want to go may not be where you want it to go, but it's going to be there path and you can help them to sort of uncover who they are and to use those best parts of themselves. Um, and I think that's true of everyone. It's not just true of certain kinds of individuals, but I just think that a lot of times parents just want their kids life to be easy and happy. Um, and I don't know if everyone's life ends up that way. Um, but they, they get there in different kinds of ways. 

Yup. That's a great answer. I love that. Uh, how can people find you doctor? Cause I know you're gonna get some emails and stuff.

Oh yeah. Um, I've got a website, www.DrKenCarter.com and you can email me, I'm happy to, to, to take a look at some emails too, at kennethCarter@emory.edu. Uh, and on my website too, you can actually take a sensation seeking questionnaire to find out where you are on the, on that, um, uh, scale. It goes from zero to 40. Um, I've interviewed lots of 35’s and 40’s, I, myself, even am an 8 on the sensation seeking questionnaire. So about as low as you can get. 

So, um, so, um, I'll come down to Atlanta and we'll, we'll go jumping. 

I will watch you for a safe distance and applaud so loud when you'll be able to hear me from the sky! LOL

What a phenomenal interview for number 200. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Carter, truly, truly presented. Love to have you back to come back to continue this conversation. 

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. 

Thank you and guys, thank you for listening. Episode 200. It's a big deal. If you remember, a couple of years ago, episode 100 right, we had my parents on and we, I talked to them for half an hour, but how the hell they could have possibly raised me considering how difficult I was to raise. And, and, and they, I remember that, I always remember the answer. I said,  I asked the same question, I asked the same questions as I asked Dr. Carter, what do you tell parents who might be freaking out and might not be at the end of their rope. And both my parents said, just tell him you love them. And just keep telling them you love them. So thank you, Mom & Dad for telling me you love me all the time and thank you, Dr. Carter, and most importantly, thank you to every single one of you who has listened throughout 200 episodes!! I could not have done this without you and I am honored every single time I get to do this. We'll see you next week with a all new episode about ADHD and all neurodiversity, it’s a gift. It's not a curse. Keep telling yourself that. Talk to you guys soon.

Guys as always, you're listening to Faster Than Normal where our interviews are 15 to 20 minutes, well, you know, because ADHD, but we appreciate you being here. If you like what you’ve heard leave us a review, drop us a note. We're always looking for new guests. If you have anyone who might want to be on the show, or it might be beneficial to be on the show, shoot me a note: peter@shankman.com or on @petershankman on any of the socials and we will see you guys next week. Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you soon.

—

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Alex Hey (pronounced "high") was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 20. This diagnosis explained two decades of underachievement and feeling misunderstood. In the wake of his diagnosis, he began a casual study of ADHD which, over the years, turned into a passion for learning about ADHD and finding all strategies that might help work with his brain, not against it. From July of 2017 until May of 2018, Alex dove into heavy research and writing which resulted in Catholicism and ADHD: Finding Holiness Despite Distractions (available on Amazon). While working on this book, he had the opportunity to support one of his friends who was being tested for ADHD. Writing the book and supporting his friend helped him discover a passion for helping those with ADHD. This led him to pursue a career as an ADHD coach. Alex was trained by the ADD Coaching Academy, and in 2019, received his PCAC (or Professional Certified ADHD Coach) credential from the Professional Association for ADHD Coaches (PAAC). 

Today we’re talking about how he found his path and is now helping others, enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Alexander Hey discuss:

1:03-  Intro and welcome Alex!

1:53-  So two decades of underachievement and feeling misunderstood, so school must have sucked?

2:14- When you got diagnosed and on meds what happened? Do you take them daily?

2:34-  So why did you get so involved with your research?

3:05-  How do you keep balance in your life, in your weekly schedule?

3:58-  What happens when you plan for everything, but then you can’t plan for everything; especially now during COVID?

4:58-  Alex’s sleep formula

5:53-  Do you find that exercise helps you; what’s your strategy?

7:06-  Have you read anything in your research about ADHD and Sleep Apnea?

7:48-  You became a certified ADHD coach. What are your clients asking for more nowadays?

8:25-  How have the things been since COVID hit?

9:04-  What advice would you give those who are dealing with home schooling?

9:30-  What do you make of the premise that quarantine may continue for many months yet?

10:30-  Tell us about your book!

11:00-  Talk to us a little about your creative process in writing the book.

11:52-  How can people find you?  Find  website at www.resetadhd.com  and @ResetADHD on Twitter  INSTA and on Facebook & YouTube

18:38-  Thank you Alexander Hey! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

19:40-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

We have a new sister video cast called 20MinutesInLockdown! A video podcast devoted to learning fascinating lessons from interesting humans all around the world, all in 20 minutes or less!  20 Minutes in Lockdown was born in early April of 2020, when we were in fact, in lockdown, and couldn’t do much of anything. Realizing that more than ever, people could benefit from learning from people outside of their comfort zone – people with interesting stories to tell, people with good advice, people with useful ideas that could help improve lives, we started hosting short Facebook video interviews, and we grew from there. (Plus, you can actually see my hair colors change before your very eyes!) Check it out:  www.20MinutesInLockdown.com

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter Shankman, welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal.  Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of faster than normal. Good to have you hope you're surviving. Hope you're staying safe. Hope you're wearing a mask. We are joined today by Alex. Hi, I'll tell you his story in a second. It is a lot of fun to be back. Uh, we took a week off. It's been a crazy few weeks, especially here in New York city, but I think everywhere around the world and it's just gonna be a crazier, so buckle up. Keep that seatbelt on. Anyway, Alex was diagnosed ADHD at the age of 20. And that explained to him immediately two decades of underachievement. Yeah. Feeling underachievement in feeling misunderstood in the wake of his diagnosis, because he just started looking at ADHD. And over the years that turned into a pattern like things with the ADHD; usually we either love it or we never we never talk about it. Are we looking at it with everything we have? So from July 17th to may of 18 and Alex the heavy research, which resulted in a book called Catholicism and ADHD. Finding holiness, despite distractions. And I want to talk to you about that beause I was definitely the Jewish kid in temple who was always, uh, screwing around and, and, and causing trouble. So you are an ADHD coach. You would train with the ATD coaching Academy and in 2009 received a professional certificate, uh, for the professional association for ADHD coaches. Welcome aboard Alex. Good to have ya. 

Good to be here. 

So 20 years of two decades of underachievement and feeling misunderstood, so school must have sucked. 

Yeah. I was always told that I should be getting straight A's, but I w I felt like I was. Happy getting bees. And so I never really expected much out of myself. Um, until I got diagnosed with ADHD and realized, Oh shoot, I'm actually kind of smart.

Okay. That makes sense. And then, so when you got diagnosed, what was the outcome? Do you get on meds or what happened? Yeah, I started on Adderall, but now I'm on Conserta. Okay. Yeah. Another, another concern fan over here. Do you take it daily? Yep. Okay. Yeah. I, I find that, um, I don't need it all the time if I can get other ways to get my dope mean, but it is, it is a wonder drug.

There's no question about it. So what made you decide to pursue this? Were you just so fascinated by him? Yeah, I think, you know, just dealing with ADHD yourself and like trying to figure out what, um, What all is going on with your brain, it's just takes over your life and you don't think about much else.

I think that one of the interesting things is that, you know, in the life that we lead, though, you have to think about much else, right? You don't have a choice to adjust to sit and listen to one thing or focus on one thing. I mean, you can make a career out of it, but you know, you still have a life. You still have a family, still have obligations, right?

So what do you do to find that balance? 

Yeah. Uh, I try and plan out my week every Monday and just say, okay, here's what I'm going to do on each of these days. Here's where I need to, you know, decide what I'm going to talk to this person and see this person, um, you know what, I'm going to do my work when I'm going to take my breaks, you know what? I'm going to get my lunch in when I'm going to, you know, take time in the evening to relax. And so it's just a matter of planning. And I think that's kind of, one of my strengths is planning. Like my favorite thing to do in college was to plan out my schedule when I'm going to take all my classes. And I actually got done with college a whole year earlier because I could plan it out and see, okay, if I take this here, here, here, and then I can get done in three years. You know? So scheduling is massively important. Yes. 

And do you find that if on the occasions that you don't schedule, you just see things go downhill? 

Yeah. If I don't have, have anything planned, I'm sitting around wondering, okay, what do I do now? Um, And then you can't plan for everything all the time though. How do you deal with, um, let's talk about how do you deal with unexpected downtime? Because for instance, you know, during, during COVID that we're currently dealing with, you know, I used to travel a quarter million miles a year, and so a 45 minute speech would take three days, right to get there, to speak and get it back. Now it takes 45 minutes. I have a lot of extra downtime. How are you handling that? 

I'm uh, trying to find it ways to staying at active. Um, I actually dove into a bunch of research on ADHD and sleep. Uh, Kind of during this whole situation. And what have you learned?

I've learned quite a bit. Um, it's harder to fall asleep at night. We're more tired during the day. It's hard to get out of bed. Um, and so kind of what I did is I came up with like a sleep formula to help you fall asleep at night. Yeah. So the sleep formula is in bed plus, uh, a tired feeling tired. Plus a calm mind equals sleep, so you actually actually physically get into bed. And when you have ADHD, you're not always so good at that. You're running around doing X, Y, or Z, and it's hard to stop and say, okay, now I need to get into bed. 

Um, so, so do you start, do you set yourself up earlier for that like sort of a wind down period?

Yeah, I do. So I got, my watch goes off at nine. O'clock telling me okay. Time to start winding down and that way I'm in bed by 10, 10, 15. What time are you up? Uh, six 45. Okay. And talk about exercise, anything in there? Yeah. That's how you get your body to feel tired. Um, so exercise during the day is going to help you feel tired at night. It's also going to help you wake up in the day. So I usually exercise in the afternoons. After work. Um, if I could get myself out of bed earlier, I'd do it in the morning, but I, why do you think you can? I don't know. I think it's something a lot of us with ADHD struggle with getting out of bed in the morning, um, but I think it's because I stay up so I don't stay up too late, stay up, you know, a relatively good time, but just getting up the bed in the morning is a little hard for me. So that sleep inertia really gets to me. I find that, that the earlier you go to bed, the easier it is to get up. 

I mean, I'm up at 3:45 every morning for exercise and things of the sort, because I know it makes me a better person and it makes me, you know, use my ADHD better. So I think that, and I'm not saying everyone needs to do that; I think there are some night people, some night owls that are ADHD and some morning people, and I think we find that balance find out where you are. I think that helps a lot. You know, I think that that I've seen people who, Oh, I wish I could get, I wish I could wake up as early as you do. I'm like, well, you, you go to sleep at 1:00 AM, so you probably can’t, right? It's basic physiology physiology. But if you go to sleep earlier, you know, you'd be amazed at what happens, something consider. 

Have you, have you read any studies in your, in your study on sleeping or anything about ADHD and, um, C-PAP or abs ADHD and sleep apnea?

Yes. I'm quite common for those of us with ADHD. In fact, I haven't myself and, and I sleep with the C-PAP machine every night.

I don't think you're alone in that I've seen a tremendous number of people who have found their ADHD actually improve, and they've been able to use it more. It was a benefit once they realize that they're waking up 70, 80, 90 times an hour. 

Oh yeah. I'm the exact same way. Yeah. I've found that since my diagnosis of sleep apnea, my focus has been better and I'm just more alert during the day. And it helps me out a whole lot. Yeah. 

What about, um, so talk about your counseling. And so you, you became a, a, a certified coach. What are you, what are you doing? What are you working on? What do you see in your clients most needing things like? 

So a lot of what they're looking for is just to get organized and get going through the day. A lot of my clients are like teens and college students, and they struggle, you know, in school and getting organized and getting figure adulting, essentially. So a lot of my work has been helping them figure out how they work best. I like to say I help people work with their brain, not against them. 

Yup. That makes sense. And do you, have you found anything, uh, any, anything related to COVID? Have you seen more or less, um, have you seen more people coming to you? Have you seen, I mean, I'm noticing that that a lot of people that my podcast listens have gone up, you know, my, my, my, my, my listeners have increased, but I think a lot of those also, cause a lot of people have time to kill.

Yeah, I think one of the struggles is, you know, online classes. I think that's one of the big things where people are looking for help with that. Cause they're not used to being at home when they're trying to learn and get their work done. Right. So I think, I think that's been a particular challenge with COVID.

What kind of advice would you give people who all of a sudden now have, you know, they're not in front of a teacher, they're doing this at home and they have to deal with that whole nightmare?

 Uh, really have a plan. Um, so plan out, you know, when you're going to do your classes and try to keep routines as similar as to when you're in school, as you can. Um, so routine is going to be huge. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. 

What do you think about, um, the premise that this might continue for the next six to eight months? You know, what, what kind of changes do you think we're gonna see coming out after we eventually get back to life? As we used to know it, if, if that ever happens.

Yeah. I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see, you know, um, it's so common to shake someone's hand when you meet them. Are you going to do that again? 

Do you think that, that, uh, you know, for ADHD, a lot of times we do better on our own when we're focused and we do have that plan, but you know, so now you're looking at, what's going to be upwards of a year of people working on their own. If people wind up being asked to go back, I think there's gonna be a bit of a backlash against that. 

Yeah. I think transitions are, we're going to be a real pain in the butt. Transitions are always tough for people. Um, you know, with ADHD anyway, we that we don't, we're not too fond of change, but we know the change has to occur. Yeah, so it's going to be, it'll be hard. And I think, you know, that's where you need to reach out and get the support you need so that you can succeed and thrive. 

Tell us for a minute or two about the book. 

Yeah. So, uh, it's kind of what inspired me to become an ADHD coach was writing about ADHD. So it’s, my faith is important to me and it's actually kind of how I decided to get tested for ADHD. I was trying to pray one day and just couldn't because I couldn't focus and I thought, gosh, what is wrong with me? And, you know, I found out that I just have a different brain wiring. 

Yep. So you, so tell what did you learn? Talk about writing and talking about what you learned from the book. 

I learned a lot. Cause you know, before I started writing it, it was just sort of a side hobby to look at ADHD, but then it really became my focus. So, um, A lot of, a lot of structure and, you know, getting well, I find one of the best ways to focus in prayer, really in anything else is to get all of your senses involved. So like, what sort of lighting can you have? What sort of sounds can you have while you're trying to focus? What sort of, um, you know, sometimes tastes you can get involved, you can get smells involved to help you focus. So I think that was one of the biggest takeaways is just getting as many different things involved as possible and that'll help draw you into what you're trying to focus on. 

Definitely. How can people find out more? Where can they find you online? 

Uh, my website is www.resetadhd.com and then I'm at @resetADHD and all the social media. 

Yes. Awesome. Yeah, I follow you, totally worth it. So give the guy, give Alex, give Alex a follow! 

Alex, thank you for taking the time today. I appreciate it. Looking forward to having you back at some point and, you know, stay in touch, let us know, uh, let us know when you learn some new stuff and we'll have you back on the share. 

Yeah, thanks for having me! 

Guys as always, you're listening to Faster Than Normal where our interviews are 15 to 20 minutes, well, you know, because ADHD, but we appreciate you being here. If you like what you’ve heard leave us a review, drop us a note. We're always looking for new guests. If you have anyone who might want to be on the show, or it might be beneficial to be on the show, shoot me a note: peter@shankman.com or on @petershankman on any of the socials and we will see you guys next week. Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you soon.

—

Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Nick Seluk is the New York Times Bestselling cartoonist behind Heart and Brain comics and creator of The Awkward Yeti. He is the author/illustrator of two books with Scholastic, creator of the card game OrganATTACK, and enjoys finding new projects and mediums to work in. Nick lives in Michigan, where he enjoys occasionally going for a very slow, painful run. 

Today we’re talking about his ADD and how he harnessed it to create a career! Enjoy!

***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***

In this episode Peter & Nick Seluk discuss:

:47-  Intro and welcome Nick!  Check out his work that I love here https://theawkwardyeti.com

2:12-  Tell us your backstory, tell us what it was like growing up?

5:00-  Growing up as a kid were your distractions primarily drawings, doodling then?

6:20-  What would you say to our listeners who are emailing and saying, how do I figure out what I really want to do and how do I turn it into success, despite whatever degree I’m allegedly pursuing? 

11:40-  Have you had a moment where you realized/it hit you that ‘holy crap, I can make a living and survive by doing this for a living’?

13:00-  Do you still suffer in any capacity from imposter syndrome?

15:24-  Have you noticed any changes in the way you live your life during all this COVID madness? How are you handling it in regards to your ADD, etc?

17:43-  What is a life rule, or two that you really have to keep in place, otherwise, everything just goes to shi*&?

18:20-  How can people find you?  Find Nick’s website at https://theawkwardyeti.com and @theawkwardyeti on Twitter  INSTA and @AwkwardYeti on Facebook

18:38-  Thank you Nick Seluk! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.

STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time!

19:40-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits

As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

We have a new sister video cast called 20MinutesInLockdown! A video podcast devoted to learning fascinating lessons from interesting humans all around the world, all in 20 minutes or less!  20 Minutes in Lockdown was born in early April of 2020, when we were in fact, in lockdown, and couldn’t do much of anything. Realizing that more than ever, people could benefit from learning from people outside of their comfort zone – people with interesting stories to tell, people with good advice, people with useful ideas that could help improve lives, we started hosting short Facebook video interviews, and we grew from there. (Plus, you can actually see my hair colors change before your very eyes!) Check it out:  www.20MinutesInLockdown.com

TRANSCRIPT: 

Hey guys, Peter Shankman, welcome to another episode of Faster Than Normal. We're going to have fun today this is going to be a great episode! I got Nick Seluk here. Nick… you've seen his stuff. You might not know his name, but you know, his comic. Nick is the cartoonist behind the amazing, The Awkward Yeti. Have you ever seen this? I guarantee you, you have, I've shared them with my ADHD audience, you probably shared them with friends. There's no question about it because it speaks to anyone who has any type of neurodiversity going on in their lives- a hundred percent. He's the cartoonist behind Heart and Brain comics and as I said, The Awkward Yeti. He’s the author and illustrator of two books with Scholastic, creator of the card game Organ Attack, and he enjoys finding new projects and mediums to work in. Nick lives in Michigan, where he enjoys occasionally- I love, I love this knowing for a very slow painful run. Oh my God. I've found my soul mate. I've found my, my, my… This is awesome. Nick. Welcome to Faster Than Normal man. 

Thanks for having me, Peter. 

Oh, this is awesome. I was just telling you before we started all, I'm a fan boy of yours, but a huge fan for years.Your, your comics speak to, they speak to everyone, but my God, I mean the, the, the ones you do where the brain just sort of goes off on us like we're perfectly happy. Everything's fine. And then, we'll say something and now we're up all night and we're screwed. It is just beautifully done for those with ADHD, because that is literally how we live our lives. Now you have.. ADD you were telling me, so tell us your backstory, tell us what it was like growing up, where you, obviously, you said you were diagnosed around, uh, what'd you say? 38 or so? 

Yeah, around the age that I am right now, 38. I, as you can imagine was not a very good student. I hung out with really intelligent people, really good students and I always thought, Oh, I must just be kind of the clown with the group. That's fine. So, you know, this mediocre student never knew how to study. I was the one in college who was pulling all nighters with people who were studying, but I was just there distracting them. But I never did it for a test. So, um, yeah, it was just, uh, I.I needed to figure out like what's going on with, um, my focus and everything. And I finally saw a psychiatrist and I was telling them about my anxiety and my depression and, uh, you know, things like that. And, and then I said, well, you know, maybe some of the impulsiveness, there's some ADD element, and he's like, yeah, Yeah. He immediately, yeah. Some, some good stuff that Adderall, um, which is, which was really great the first, week for those of you who have taken Adderall. It's wonderful. Um, but the funny thing with my comics is I think they are pretty, uh, They do display a lot of the tendencies that I have with ADD. And I've even had, I think years ago, somebody said you should probably get yourself checked out over, ADD in the comments and I remember at the time I was really offended by it. Oh yeah. How dare you diagnose me? About how little attention span. I have. Um, and it turns out they were right. So if I could find them I’d probably say thanks.

Begrudgingly angry. Thanks. No, I, you know, it's totally true though. I mean, I've, I've been on stage, you know, before I, before I got diagnosed and started making ADHD a mainstream of what I talk about, I mean said, I'd be on stage. We'd be like, wow. You know, you're a really fast mouse and a really fast brain, you know, you should, I wonder if that does that affect you negatively? And I'd be like, bitch, please. How dare you? You know? But no, that's exactly what it is. And, and, and I always, I always compare it to like, um, Every once in a while, you'll catch an interview on TV or something with some sports figures, some music, musician or something who's clearly hi at the time they're playing it off. Like they're playing it off like they’re not, and they're just trying really hard to participate in the conversation, but you're watching them and you're watching their facial expressions. Yeah, it's obvious you're high, you know, stop trying to hide it. Just be high. It's sort of exactly the same thing. Um, so tell me about you growing up as a kid, you were always on assuming, you know, even me for college, like school and whatever it wasn't that great. Or, you know, as it were, did you, were you a, was your district or your distractions primarily, um, uh, drawings. Doodling or yeah, drawing?

Absolutely. In class. That's all I would do. I would, I couldn't pay any attention to anything that didn't interest me, which was about 80% of school. So it's any wonder I even made it to college at that rate, but yeah, I would draw comics in class and I'd share them with my friends and that was pretty much how I spent school. I never got any better at it. And I think that has something to do with the attention span too. It was just, I, I. Love the drawing, but I didn't have the focus to sit there and, and get better. Like do fine Art had took a couple of classes here and there, but, uh, I think cartoons ended up just being the perfect medium for me. So I could express things without having to really commit to say 10 hours doing an intricate drawing or painting or something. 

A lot of our listeners are students or college students, things like that are just out of college, you know? And they're constantly emailing, Hey, I don't have. You know, even on Adderall, even on Conserta, my attention span, you know, I'm trying to figure out what I love. Right. It seems to me that you figured out what you love and to manage, to turn it into a career. Right. You know, at least one that would seemingly support you. So what would you tell. All these kids who, you know, are, are emailing and saying, how do I figure out what I do and how do I, how do I turn it into success? You know, they're saying, Oh, you know, I got my degree in this or that. And I just love it. I can't imagine doing the rest of my life and I get bored and I get stressed out about it. I think there's still very much a very much a stigma, even though it's dropped a bit, there's still a very much of a stigma of, um, and what you love as opposed to doing, you know, getting the 40 hour job, every job, and then doing it 40 years ago, even though that doesn't exist anymore. It's, you know, our parents' generation, obviously, that's what they have. And so it takes a very sort of enlightened parent to be okay with that, doing that and I think we have another, another generation to go before that starts to let up a little bit. 

Yeah. Um, finding what you love to do is really difficult. And I, I did not go right into it. I tried, I tried to get syndicated when I was 18. I was making a strip and sending it into at least one syndicate who rejected me, of course. Well, funny thing is later, they ended up being my first publisher. 

So you can take a second. You can tell us how awesome of a feeling that was. 

That felt really good. I pursued one publisher because they used to publish Calvin and Hobbes.

Awesome. 

And that's, that was my favorite strip or one of my favorites. And, uh, so I didn't shop around and it was just like, it's this, or it's nothing basically. And it worked out after a while, but I spent, you know, I went to school for, uh, I wanted to do Music Production and then I shifted over to Psychology and that ended up being really good for me because I could kind of BS my way through it because there was a lot of essays and it's like, I can, I can kind of convince you that this makes sense. Um, so I got through my degree that way, um, you know, in science, uh, in more straightforward sciences, you can't do that as much because you really have to stick to facts and figures and you know, there are. Real answers. 

I think that is, I think that is something that we do because, you know, I have a journalism degree, right. And well, I know how to write as long as I had a right. You can't tell me I didn't do the assignment. 

Exactly, when it came to the formatting, this is where I really struggled because I didn't care. Um, and it's, it's really difficult to do something that you don't care about. Like even with the medication they want to help you care about something they will just help you follow through to something you are willing to do. So I ended up of course, with a degree in Psychology going into Graphic Design, uh, that natural transition for somebody like me. Um, so I did Graphic Design and it kind of worked my way up and it was an art director for awhile and was managing a team and I did the whole soul sucking corporate job for about. 10 years and I hated it and I hated the people I was around. I started thinking I was one of them and I got really dark and depressing and still, I just, I put all of my energy into this thing that I really loved doing. And I already knew that I loved doing, and it was my escape. Um, and then it became my desperate attempt to get out of it. And so I think it took me about a year and a half of working on it maybe two years, but I've. I mean, I, I worked my ass off when I was like, uh, when I was making comics initially I was riding in the car on the way to work. I would, if I was at the stop light, I’d scratch down a quick comic and then I'd get to work. I just to take my lunch break in the car and. And do comics in there. And then like once things were going, I I'd be doing emails and shipping out orders and before work in the morning, and then after work and I still, I had kids and a wife. And so I was still busy with that too. And you know, social life, but I like when you want something bad enough, that's the kind of work you have to put into it as I'm sure, you know, Peter.

No question about it. And you know, it's interesting because even though you're busting your ass and you're constantly exhausted and you're 24 hours a day, you know, if you're not doing your real job, you're doing this. So you get to, hopefully one day become your real job, no matter how much you're doing that, it still doesn't feel like work because you love, you love it so much that you constantly want to do it, right?

Yes, absolutely. I mean, what I do now, you know, any new projects I'm working on, it never feels like work. I'm not really thinking about, you know, what kind of, what's this going to turn into? Um, monetarily, I like I'm working on a video game right now and I'm not really thinking about- is this video game going to make me a bunch of money. I'm thinking I really want to make video game because I've never made one and I don't know much about it and I think it would be fun to try to do this. Um, there was no, Oh no, no, no. That's all right. I was kind of trailing off. Anyway. 

Have you had a moment where your, where you realized the moment hit you, where you realized, holy crap, I can make a living out of this and I can survive this and, and this is going to be, you know, this is the future I wanted. I mean, I remember when I was, when I was a kid, I was always nervous if I didn't have a complete answer to something, if it's not a guaranteed way of doing something and finishing something and knowing how it was gonna work out, I'd be crazy. Right. And I couldn't, I, you know, I'd be, I'd be anxiety filled and now I'm just like, Well, yeah, I know I'm not traveling, and  COVID’s hit and I’m doing some, some digital keynotes and I'll make it, I'll make it. And, you know, eight year old Peter be like, who the fuck is this? Right? How the hell is, how the hell is he okay with this? Not like, you know screaming and downing Xanax or whatever you had that moment, as well?

Yeah, I think so. I. Yeah. I feel that all the time, like, I, I just, I feel that I can make things work. And I remember the first time I felt like I could actually do what I wanted. It was a very early on when I was posting on Facebook for awhile. I, I got to a point where I had 33,000 followers and this was a turning point. I was working on a project and trying to start a business with like an old colleague and, um, And it wasn't really going anywhere. And I called him and I said, you know, I've got 33,000 followers and I actually think this could be something, so I'm done with this project and I'm focusing on this other one. And so it was an interesting gut feeling because I think it was just the rate that I had gotten to 33,000 felt like a trajectory that would sustain and I was right. I have a 2.4 million now on Facebook. So. I think it's pretty cool that I was seeing it that early on. Um, you know, I looked, I just looked for the patterns and things, I guess.

You know, it's, it's, it's interesting. Do you still suffer in any capacity from imposter syndrome? I'm assuming you do because every everyone like us does. 

Oh, big time. 

Let's talk about that for a second. Tell us about that. 

Um, how do you experience it?

So the best way I can describe and positives. And I've done this before in the podcast that people who listen know, um, everyday I wake up sure. That today is the day. The New York times is going to have a full front page story about what a complete fraud I am and how none of the success I have is real. I've just fallen into it. And then obviously they don't. But then the reason they don't is because I don't know when you're important enough for New York times to do a story, a front page story on someone like me. Well, you know, and, and I get these, I get these speaking gigs that people call me in the email, me, and I'm like, Wow. It was amazing. I made so much money this year, doing what I love sitting on stage and talking. It was all just a fluke. That won't last, it can't be real…yet it has lasted quote unquote for over 20 years. Right. It's completely lasted, but it's still in my head. I see it as that.

I, I can not see my own success. I'm completely blind to it and, uh, I sometimes have to sit down and this may be maybe once a month or so. I'll force myself to think and say, listen, you had 80,000 likes on your comic on Instagram and you are so down on yourself right now, you're an idiot. Like you're not seeing this for what it is. Think of it as an absolute number. Now, 80,000 people took the time to read and participate in the posts, but I just can't even seem to see that. And I, I look at other Artists at any level of success and I think there's so much better- they are actual cartoonists where I'm more just, I just sketch things and I can't seem to.. 

I always see there might be 50,000 comments thanking me for something awesome. And then there's a one comment who says you're terrible. And of course that's the one I see, the other 50,000 completely don’t matter. 

Yeah, that's the one that is more important than all the rest, they're just being nice. But the one in a million who was all; that was like stupid. That, that person was correct. That's the truth that one person spoke the truth.

Nobody else was willing to speak. Where do you see, um, where you, I mean, we're, you know, we're obviously a weird time now, right? What do you see? Have you noticed any changes in the way you live your life? We were talking about this earlier. You said you can't go to the bar as much, but have you noticed any changes that you think might affect you or might affect that, that the focus more on neurodiversity? And one of the things I've noticed is that it's so much easier. To quote, unquote, forget about the schedule that keeps me on point. It's so much easier to forget about the fact that I have to exercise every day or I don't have a good day. And I have, you know, it's always easier to forget about the fact that dude, if you eat everything in the fridge, you're going to get much, much fatter, you know, what are you seeing and how are you handling that in this sort of weird new post-apocalyptic nightmare that we're all in?

Not having accountability and a schedule is difficult. You know, I used to have a, a strip that I did for an online publisher for web, And I think I did Two a week. So it kept me on schedule and I found that everything else kind of went along with it. So if I, I knew I had to do those and it would kind of motivate me to do my other comics. Um, but at the same time, having very little restriction over overtime. Like once I've gotten used to, this has been really beneficial because I've noticed, you know, I'll do whatever I want whenever I want um, I'm, I've been running a lot more lately, like the last month. Like every other day, at least I'm running because I can, I just run what I feel like running. Right. It doesn't have to fit into any schedule. And I like, I don't have to be in an office or anything. So, you know, if I've done enough work that I feel satisfied and it's like, Two o'clock, three o'clock in the afternoon I'll just go out. You know, of course, absolutely. Without question in the worst possible time, I'll get it done. And..I’m starting to hit a groove. I've got good projects to work on where there is some accountability, like I’m trying to get an animated series going with a company, so I have to deal with them. And then the video game I'm dealing with the program, or, you know, I have people that need me and rely on me. I think that is necessary, or I probably wouldn't get anything done, especially a home where it has, you know, TV, iPad, phone, distracting me constantly.

What is a life rule, or two; that you have things that if you don't do, everything just goes to shit?

Um, if I don't do something creative, I, I am like dying inside and that kind of spirals. So I, I have to be creating something and it doesn't matter if anybody sees it, um, I just have to be doing a project that's like creating something new. That's my, that's my main thing, like that's what drives me and keeps me going, is just being productive. 

How do people find you now? Obviously the awkward Yeti, um, is, is, is we're going to see where else do people find you?

Oh, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. Those are great places. Um, and yeah, the AwkwardYeti.com. 

Very, very cool. I have no doubt that people are gonna reach out to, I, I I'm so thrilled. It was funny. I, when I emailed you and sent you a message, I'm like, you know, I really would love to have you, I'm sitting here going; you have you’ve had over 200 episodes, major celebrities like Tony Robbins, why the fuck are you sitting there going, you know, beginning to get all worried that he's what he’s going to say saying was, this was..I was excited about this. There's no was he’s going to say yes. So I’m thrilled that you did, man. This was really awesome. And, uh, really appreciate you taking the time.

I really appreciate you inviting me on!

Most definitely. And, and we'll definitely have you back. We'll do some more over time in the future- And again, thank you for being here! 

Guys, just a phenomenal interview with Nick from The Awkward Yeti it's a phenomenal interview. We really appreciate him being here. If you liked what you heard as always, this is your first time you can subscribe if you liked what you heard, you could leave us a review somewhere on iTunes or Google play or wherever you download your stuff from. I think we're even on the Alexa. Yeah. So I have to say that because there's Alexis all in the house cancel. And if I don't say yes, a little start bothering me what I want.So thank you so much. ADHD is a gift, not a curse, as you know, and we will see you guys again next week. Thanks for being here. Have a great day. Stay safe, wear a mask. 

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Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.